Help needed, Vista or OSX

[carinatauk]

Right I am a complete numpty at PCs and I desire the considered opinions of the collective.

I am currently looking at a laptop, choices so far are Sony or Toshiba with Vista Home [approx £800] or splashing out on a Apple MBP [£1299]. All John Lewis options [ps they recommend MBP]

The key issues are that I am currently running XP which is sufficient for my software. Regrettably, this software will not port over to Vista [well according to the Microsoft site] because of its age. If this is so then I will have to fork out for this as well, hence the Apple option.

The software I use is:

Microsoft Office
Microsoft Visio
Adobe Photoshop, Elements and CS2
Itunes
Tom Tom Home
AOL
Windows Live Messenger
McAfee AV and Firewall
Some games [civilisations etc]

I have heard some poor things about Vista and tbh I am not a great fan of what I see. Option 2 is to use a MBP with parallels or the Microsoft [XP] equivalent to run all my windows software until I can afford a total change. I am assuming that running a windows based software on the MBP may lead to a virus issue in time?
What are the options of protection?

Key thing is the Office, Photoshop and TomTom software [and Garmin when it arrives].

Which is the way to go? And if MBP, which one and would you increase the memory?

Many Thanks

Edited to say I will also use this for online banking etc and work

Edited by carinatauk on Saturday 18th August 16:08

[bga]

Which software won't port to Vista? I've got Office 2003 & Visio on my Vista laptop running fine.

There is also a lot of nonsense spouted about Vista. I have it on a laptop that is used on a number of client sites & it will connect to network resources better than XP ever has. Not yet experienced BSOD either . One of my current clients is trialling it for 3000 remote users and they are reporting fewer stability problems with it.

Mac's are great & the MBP is a great bit of kit, but chuck £1299 at a windows based laptop and you will also get a great bit of kit. I'm a big Mac fan, but wouldn't use one for work, only because I have found that the windows versions of the software I use work better for the particular tasks that I do. When I get around to buying another with my own money, it will be a Mac though.

[cyberface]

I've been using a Mac laptop as a main work machine on client sites operating Windows-only networks for quite some time. It's been feasible for a year or so (avoiding virtual Windows machines!) in my line of work.

Out of your apps, Visio will cause you the aggro since there's no native port and the best (in fact it's much better than Visio) alternative, OmniGraffle, is only compatible with the newest XML Visio file format. Other office apps, native Excel will only cause issues if it's been heavily programmed with external components (activex controls, dlls etc.) - however the next native Mac version of MS Office is slated to remove all VBA support altogether, making it utterly useless to me. So be careful with what level of Office support you need.

However the Intel Macs can all run a copy of Windows in virtualisation i.e. in its own virtual machine - use OS X for everything else, and a disposable copy of Windows for essential apps that only work on that platform.

Using a Mac but booting exclusively XP or Vista will require the same virus protection / firewall software as any other PC laptop. Doing this is effectively buying the Mac for the styling. You can get better spec cheaper in most other PC brands, but quality costs as always, the better PC laptops (thinkpads) aren't cheap either.

What the Mac *really* excels at is the ability to keep your main use safe in OS X but being able to fire up Windows for one or two apps *without* rebooting. I'd advise extra memory if you do a lot of this, but equally since you won't be running antivirus software / antispyware / etc. the Mac will be quicker in general use (i.e. when you're not running Windows).

The Mac gives you all the options - I'd have a go on OS X and see whether you like it.

[CommanderJameson]

cyberface said:

however the next native Mac version of MS Office is slated to remove all VBA support altogether, making it utterly useless to me.

Interesting point: VBA is also coming out of the 64-bit version of Office on Windows, allegedly. Summat to do with the VBA VM not being 64-bit clean and they can't be arsed with a rewrite.

In all seriousness, I think that Office has been pretty much feature-complete for 10 years for the vast majority of users. I certainly don't do anything now that I couldn't do in Office 97 or even 95, and to my chagrin, I'm mostly a Word Engineer these days...

[cyberface]

CommanderJameson said:

cyberface said:

however the next native Mac version of MS Office is slated to remove all VBA support altogether, making it utterly useless to me.

Interesting point: VBA is also coming out of the 64-bit version of Office on Windows, allegedly. Summat to do with the VBA VM not being 64-bit clean and they can't be arsed with a rewrite.

In all seriousness, I think that Office has been pretty much feature-complete for 10 years for the vast majority of users. I certainly don't do anything now that I couldn't do in Office 97 or even 95, and to my chagrin, I'm mostly a Word Engineer these days...

WTF? That'll be the entire City of London not upgrading to 64-bit Office on Windows then. And any other financial district you care to name, for that matter. Macro-filled Excel is a bloody pain in the arse especially when it becomes an unsupported part of production anywhere (usually front / middle office) but it's bloody *everywhere* - dropping it simply isn't an option for any financial institution I've worked at...

[carinatauk]

Thanks for the info. Software that apparently doesn't work on Vista is:

Adobe Photoshop, Elements and CS2 [at the very least problematic, and at > £1000 I am not prepared to update]

Software that apparently doesn't work on the MBP [but does under Vista] includes:

Tom Tom Home
Garmin Mapsource

I understand that I could get a super Vista machine at £1299, not that I would know where to look at the mo.

I like the idea of running both system is tandem, particularly given the Adobe issue. Where would I get a "cheap" version of XP?

Thanks again

[ThePassenger]

CommanderJameson said:

In all seriousness, I think that Office has been pretty much feature-complete for 10 years for the vast majority of users. I certainly don't do anything now that I couldn't do in Office 97 or even 95, and to my chagrin, I'm mostly a Word Engineer these days...

O97, even in 2005 it was the most widely used version of Office I came across on my travels. I think through sheer brute force and knakkered install media it's now O2k But, I believe one of OpenOffice.org's original stated goals was to offer a feature for feature of Office 97; as it's the version every bugger uses/used Not sure if it still is mind.

carinatauk said:

I like the idea of running both system is tandem, particularly given the Adobe issue. Where would I get a "cheap" version of XP?

Novatech and most other places will happily sell you the OEM version of Windows XP (Home or Pro), you can also get it from Amazon and ebay, often with a stick of PC66 RAM in it to comply (kinda maybe) with the MS OEM license.

If by cheap, you mean "free", well... erm... that's naughty.

[Spyke]

carinatauk said:

I like the idea of running both system is tandem, particularly given the Adobe issue. Where would I get a "cheap" version of XP?

Thanks again

Depends what you're doing with your old machine, but why not de-activate Windows XP on that and install it as a dual-boot ("Boot Camp&quot on the MBP? Makes it free legally!

[ThePassenger]

Spyke said:

carinatauk said:

I like the idea of running both system is tandem, particularly given the Adobe issue. Where would I get a "cheap" version of XP?

Thanks again

Depends what you're doing with your old machine, but why not de-activate Windows XP on that and install it as a dual-boot ("Boot Camp&quot on the MBP? Makes it free legally!

Depends on what the old machine is. If it's a DIYer jobbie with full on Windows, he can transfer legally. If it's a Dell with an OEM. He can't. Legally. Saying that, if it is an OEM from a big vendor (Dell, HP, Lenovo, et al) it probably won't even install properly on the MBP and will complain loudly about needing activation; not 100% sure if a swift phone call to MS will sort it or get them asking for your credit card details.

[CommanderJameson]

ThePassenger said:

Spyke said:

carinatauk said:

I like the idea of running both system is tandem, particularly given the Adobe issue. Where would I get a "cheap" version of XP?

Thanks again

Depends what you're doing with your old machine, but why not de-activate Windows XP on that and install it as a dual-boot ("Boot Camp&quot on the MBP? Makes it free legally!

Depends on what the old machine is. If it's a DIYer jobbie with full on Windows, he can transfer legally. If it's a Dell with an OEM. He can't. Legally. Saying that, if it is an OEM from a big vendor (Dell, HP, Lenovo, et al) it probably won't even install properly on the MBP and will complain loudly about needing activation; not 100% sure if a swift phone call to MS will sort it or get them asking for your credit card details.

If it's OEM it's not legit on any machine other than the one it came pre-installed on.

[Tycho]

I'm using Photoshop CS2 on my Vista Home Premium edition without any issues. What are the issues you have been reading about?

[carinatauk]

The XP version is OEM and came supplied on the Evesham pc [without the disks].

CS2 comments were based on an extract from the MS site:

"Adobe Creative Suite 2 (Superceded by Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Premium)
Version: 2.3
Vista Compatibility: Adobe Creative Suite works with Vista but there are issues with installing updates.
Issues: Adobe Update Manager can cause error messages when installing updates, but the updates install fine.
Vendor Support: Unsupported. Adobe has discontinued Adobe Creative Suite 2 and replaced it with Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Premium. See the document How Adobe Products Support Windows Vista for more details on Adobe Creative Suite 2 and Vista"

Hence my thoughts of MBP with parallels. This will be a personal computer and as such I don't want to spend shed loads on software when the earlier versions I have are more than adequate [ie Acrobat v4 which won't work on Vista] and work with XP.

Is the extra money, MBP, worth it to upgrade from the £1299 version to the alternate £1500 ish version??

[wolves_wanderer]

carinatauk said:

"Adobe Creative Suite 2 (Superceded by Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Premium)
Version: 2.3
Vista Compatibility: Adobe Creative Suite works with Vista but there are issues with installing updates.
Issues: Adobe Update Manager can cause error messages when installing updates, but the updates install fine.
Vendor Support: Unsupported. Adobe has discontinued Adobe Creative Suite 2 and replaced it with Adobe Creative Suite 3 Design Premium. See the document How Adobe Products Support Windows Vista for more details on Adobe Creative Suite 2 and Vista"

None of those problems will prevent you using CS2 under Vista. I did quite happily for a couple of months until upgrading to CS3, the error messages are all to do with the updater but everything else worked fine. Personally I think it is very sharp practice on the part of Adobe to require an update to CS3 for true Vista compatibility.

[Marshy]

FYI, there's an OS X port of TomTom home that works well. Umm, it works as well as an TomTom software, anyway.

I moved my world to OS X a while ago, and I keep a virtual Windows machine kicking around for the things I absolutely can't do in OS X - which isn't much. For the sake of 40 quid or thereabouts, VMWare Fusion or Parallels are well worth it compared to using Boot Camp to switch between one or the other.

[carinatauk]

Thanks a bunch guys

This is the response from my bank, as all my banking is electronic it may decide my destiny:

"Thank you for your e-mail about using Internet banking.

We do not support specific computers, however, we do support Netscape Navigator 6 and above or Microsoft Internet Explorer 5 and above. If your system has one of these browsers you will be able to access Internet banking using your Apple Mac"

Being a bit of a numpty, am I to assume that the software that is used under OSX isn't going to work for the purpose of connecting to online banking?

[Strangely Brown]

carinatauk said:

Being a bit of a numpty, am I to assume that the software that is used under OSX isn't going to work for the purpose of connecting to online banking?

Netscape? Who the uses Netscape? Just about all online banking facilities are useable with Mac browsers, the banks are just being arses and spouting crap that they know nothing about.

What bank do you use?

I can personally confirm that Barclays, HSBC and Nationwide are all fine. You'll find that most of the others are too. If Safari doesn't work then you'll almost certainly find that Firefox does.

[CommanderJameson]

Strangely Brown said:

carinatauk said:

Being a bit of a numpty, am I to assume that the software that is used under OSX isn't going to work for the purpose of connecting to online banking?

Netscape? Who the uses Netscape? Just about all online banking facilities are useable with Mac browsers, the banks are just being arses and spouting crap that they know nothing about.

What bank do you use?

I can personally confirm that Barclays, HSBC and Nationwide are all fine. You'll find that most of the others are too. If Safari doesn't work then you'll almost certainly find that Firefox does.

Lloyds TSB works 100% with Safari.

[cyberface]

carinatauk said:

Thanks a bunch guys

This is the response from my bank, as all my banking is electronic it may decide my destiny:

"Thank you for your e-mail about using Internet banking.

We do not support specific computers, however, we do support Netscape Navigator 6 and above or Microsoft Internet Explorer 5 and above. If your system has one of these browsers you will be able to access Internet banking using your Apple Mac"

Being a bit of a numpty, am I to assume that the software that is used under OSX isn't going to work for the purpose of connecting to online banking?

All banks and credit card sites I've ever used (a fair few) work just fine with Camino (my main browser, which is related to Firefox).

With Safari and Firefox installed, you won't have a problem. I've never heard of any bank sites being a problem with Macs. Remember that there are a LOT of Windows users using Firefox as well to avoid the Internet Explorer viruses / vulnerabilities, it's a major platform and banks DO develop for it.

[carinatauk]

Brill......

Bank is Lloyds TSB

Well it is now down to choice, so off to view the toys tomorrow

Thanks again

[CommanderJameson]

carinatauk said:

Brill......

Bank is Lloyds TSB

Well it is now down to choice, so off to view the toys tomorrow

Thanks again

No need to bang the head! Lloyds TSB works just fine on Safari.

ETA: To clarify: Safari is the web browser that comes with OS X.

Edited by CommanderJameson on Tuesday 21st August 12:48