Bargain Barge or Money Pit?
Discussion
Hi all,
Record holding lurker breaks cover for the second time in several years in search of some support!
I have just agreed to take ownership of a friend's rather pretty M reg 4.0 xj40 Sport for a very, very, very reasonable sum.
No tax, and very short MOT - but it does have some petrol, the body is in lovely shape, it drives well and is just over 100k.
There are of course some little niggles to make it interesting...
There is an in intermittent fault where the gear selector will not move from park to reverse with the brake pedal pressed. Although I have not witnessed this myself. There is of course a manual override using the key.
The engine can occasionally stall when dropping to idle - say pulling up at a junction. I have seen this sadly. I guess this could be almost anything.
The only really worrying thing is that it smokes on startup.
The previous owner is under the impression that it is simply valve seals, as it has smoked on starting for the 6 or so years he has owned it. It certainly pulls well and is nice and quiet. Since it has been standing for the last year or so it does appear to be smoking more when running now.
So....
First off money pit or bargain? ( nb. there is no option for "money pit but I will take it off your hands" ).
Does anyone know if is possible to replace the valve seals without removing the head?
Any ideas about the other niggles?
cheers
Mark
Unfortunately, old Jags are worth so little that unless the smoking is easy to fix (unlikely) it won't be worth doing anything, just run it until it expires, then recoup what you paid for it by breaking it (sacriledge I know).
I'd be worried about the stallign issue though as it has to be stationary to restart - not nice when it happens in the outside lane of a motorway!
Welcome to the world of Jag ownership though!
Any pictures?
I'd be worried about the stallign issue though as it has to be stationary to restart - not nice when it happens in the outside lane of a motorway!
Welcome to the world of Jag ownership though!
Any pictures?
Yes it is kind of nice to be back in a Jaguar!
Fortunately it would be very easy to recoup my current investment... all of the stop/tail bulbs work - and they must have some second hand value surely? Thats why I dont mind putting some effort, and maybe even some limited cash into the old girl.
The stalling appears to be more of a revs drop to nothing when you pull to a halt problem - rather than cutting out at speed, so I am not currently worried about motorways!
I will get some pics in the next couple of days.
Fortunately it would be very easy to recoup my current investment... all of the stop/tail bulbs work - and they must have some second hand value surely? Thats why I dont mind putting some effort, and maybe even some limited cash into the old girl.
The stalling appears to be more of a revs drop to nothing when you pull to a halt problem - rather than cutting out at speed, so I am not currently worried about motorways!
I will get some pics in the next couple of days.
If it has an idle air valve/idle control valve/idle bypass valve (I don't know what Jaguar call it!) I'd look to that as a cause of stalling.
Smoke on startup only could be valve stem oil seals - does it smoke after a long off-throttle descent? They can be replaced with the head on - you use compressed air to hold the valve closed while you remove the collet and spring and replace the seal.
Check recent issues of Practical Performance Car for other expensive/awkward bits on XJ40s....
Smoke on startup only could be valve stem oil seals - does it smoke after a long off-throttle descent? They can be replaced with the head on - you use compressed air to hold the valve closed while you remove the collet and spring and replace the seal.
Check recent issues of Practical Performance Car for other expensive/awkward bits on XJ40s....
My 1994 XJ40 also puts out the occasional puff of blue smoke on start-up - and has done since I bought it. I have done only 9000 miles though. The JEC's technical guru reccomends leaving well alone as it is not harming the engine. Quite the reverse actually as you are getting more oil down the valve stems which cannot be bad! Interesting point about holding the valve shut using compressed air though.
These very last XJ40's are very inderated, and looked after (ie anything jumped on before it comes an issue) they will carry on for many miles of luxurious motoring. Good ones are already few and far between and are starting to stand out from the crowd at shows. Mine for instance has an agreed value insurance of £4000 - not bad considering the normal price of a neglected sample.
As to the gearchange interlock, there have been many XJ40's that have had the solonoid removed. problem is then you have to be sure that the selector is in park or you could potentially start the car in gear. Ooops! I would not reccomend it but you will probably find that ir is either an adjustment issue, a loose wire, or a replacement solonoid is all that is required.
Engine cutting out at idle is another common issue and it can be any one of a number of things, some cheap and easy, others less so. Firstly, I would remove the rubber bellows on the air intake which connects to the throttle body. It is likely this is full of oily gunk. Next, remove the throttle body from the manifold (four nuts and a cable connector to the throttle pot I think) and clean it with carb cleaner. Pay particular attention to the area around the butterfly flap. Then with the flap closed, check with feeler gauges the clearance which should be 2 thou. Adjust if necassary using the external stop screw. Next, remove the idle speed control valve and thoroughly clean. Re-assemble ensuring that the rubber bellows are fitted correctly. They often are not upsetting the fuel/air mix. Normally, this corrects the problem in my experience. Failing that, the temperature sensor could also be at fault. There are two, one operating the dashboard guage. It is the other one that sends information to the ECU which can cause a problem. After that, things become a little more expensive as you may be looking at the air flow meter/air mass meter being out of range.
Bottom line. If this car is bodily in good condition, then usually they respond very well to sympathetic maintenance and repair and will reward you for it. There is little in my opinion that compares to a well running Jaguar, whatever the model - short of a Rolls or Bentley! Keep us posted.
These very last XJ40's are very inderated, and looked after (ie anything jumped on before it comes an issue) they will carry on for many miles of luxurious motoring. Good ones are already few and far between and are starting to stand out from the crowd at shows. Mine for instance has an agreed value insurance of £4000 - not bad considering the normal price of a neglected sample.
As to the gearchange interlock, there have been many XJ40's that have had the solonoid removed. problem is then you have to be sure that the selector is in park or you could potentially start the car in gear. Ooops! I would not reccomend it but you will probably find that ir is either an adjustment issue, a loose wire, or a replacement solonoid is all that is required.
Engine cutting out at idle is another common issue and it can be any one of a number of things, some cheap and easy, others less so. Firstly, I would remove the rubber bellows on the air intake which connects to the throttle body. It is likely this is full of oily gunk. Next, remove the throttle body from the manifold (four nuts and a cable connector to the throttle pot I think) and clean it with carb cleaner. Pay particular attention to the area around the butterfly flap. Then with the flap closed, check with feeler gauges the clearance which should be 2 thou. Adjust if necassary using the external stop screw. Next, remove the idle speed control valve and thoroughly clean. Re-assemble ensuring that the rubber bellows are fitted correctly. They often are not upsetting the fuel/air mix. Normally, this corrects the problem in my experience. Failing that, the temperature sensor could also be at fault. There are two, one operating the dashboard guage. It is the other one that sends information to the ECU which can cause a problem. After that, things become a little more expensive as you may be looking at the air flow meter/air mass meter being out of range.
Bottom line. If this car is bodily in good condition, then usually they respond very well to sympathetic maintenance and repair and will reward you for it. There is little in my opinion that compares to a well running Jaguar, whatever the model - short of a Rolls or Bentley! Keep us posted.
So far I have just given it a wash and tried to work out what sort of state it is in. Unusually, the more I look the better it gets. I think it might be worth keeping.
.
And here is a short video taken with my phone.
I have to say that the body is excellent. There are some very minor rust bubbles where the front wheel arch linings are attached to the inner wings in the engine bay. Nothing exciting though. In fact that is the only rust I have seen.
I suspect the gearbox problem - and maybe the stalling - were due to a battery with a dead cell. We had to jump it to get it going for the test drive. Currently it has an ancient 2cv battery in it which is doing the job OK - no strangeness yet.
I will try to get a video of the oil smoke when it is running. To be fair it appears to be less today. This may simply be rings needing cleaning with Redex or similar. If I am just left with a smoke screen at startup - and the MOT man doesnt mind - then I may leave it well alone.
.And here is a short video taken with my phone.
I have to say that the body is excellent. There are some very minor rust bubbles where the front wheel arch linings are attached to the inner wings in the engine bay. Nothing exciting though. In fact that is the only rust I have seen.
I suspect the gearbox problem - and maybe the stalling - were due to a battery with a dead cell. We had to jump it to get it going for the test drive. Currently it has an ancient 2cv battery in it which is doing the job OK - no strangeness yet.
I will try to get a video of the oil smoke when it is running. To be fair it appears to be less today. This may simply be rings needing cleaning with Redex or similar. If I am just left with a smoke screen at startup - and the MOT man doesnt mind - then I may leave it well alone.
groomi said:
Looks good in the pic. Wheels seem in good nick and the aerial goes all the way down which suggests the car has been well looked after.
What is odd though is that you appear to have no exhaust pipes!
Agreed on both counts.What is odd though is that you appear to have no exhaust pipes!
Edited by groomi on Wednesday 29th August 17:11
With regard to tin worm, keep an eye on the edge of the sunroof (if it has one). I've just had to remedy the one on the Daimler as it was getting bigger by the day!
Does look good though. My dad had that model in that colour when it was new, which got me in to XJ40's in the first place
Another good point is that the ride height looks good. Often XJ40's sag at the rear due to the springs getting weaker. I replaced mine with brand new ones last year (original Jaguar) and the ride height improved by some 2 inches! Yours seems about the same height (rear wheel clearance to wheelarch) as mine. I would suggest you keep it and put right what ever is wrong. Too many are just being sent to the scrapper for little reason. Yours is a popular colour (Flamenco I think), looks like an "S" and if it has leather your quids in!!!
Leather? Oh yes! Rather nice red stiching to match the carpets.
All looking good at the minute.
Even the cd multi changer works... and Halfrauds replaced the poorly battery for nothing today.
I might just push it through an MOT next week and see what happens.
Any ideas for insurance? I use Footman james for the DS ( which is just £99pa fully comp unlimited mileage ) but the best they could manage was £260 for 4,000 miles for the Jag. £360 for 6000.
All looking good at the minute.
Even the cd multi changer works... and Halfrauds replaced the poorly battery for nothing today.
I might just push it through an MOT next week and see what happens.
Any ideas for insurance? I use Footman james for the DS ( which is just £99pa fully comp unlimited mileage ) but the best they could manage was £260 for 4,000 miles for the Jag. £360 for 6000.
Well I took it for an MOT this afternoon and unsurprisingly it failed.
On a headlight!
A headlight which I know was working a couple of days ago when I checked it pre-test..
There were a couple of advisories - including the smoke - but nothing exciting.
I now have the opinion is is a bargain barge!
Incidentally, in case the car failed really badly ( in which case it was going to end up on ebay tonight) , I just got 1 days Norwich Union insurance from dayinsure.com. £12 and OK to travel to an MOT.
On a headlight!
A headlight which I know was working a couple of days ago when I checked it pre-test..
There were a couple of advisories - including the smoke - but nothing exciting.
I now have the opinion is is a bargain barge!
Incidentally, in case the car failed really badly ( in which case it was going to end up on ebay tonight) , I just got 1 days Norwich Union insurance from dayinsure.com. £12 and OK to travel to an MOT.
An update...
Defo a bargain barge and not ready for the canal.
It has been on the road since 1st Oct.
Passed MOT - which cost £15 for new switch circuit board from fleabay. ( taking total spend to £15 + £50 for the MOT....)
Emissions were very close at MOT but I think they decided it didn't have a cat, having thrashed it ( I assume to try to clean the lambda ) and passed it anyway.
Stalling problem has gone away.
Battery charging OK.
Doors were occasionally difficult to open from the outside. That turned out to be 3 of the door seals not seated properly into the slots in the body. Odd - but all OK now.
Drives well, doesn't overheat or do anything else nasty.
Averaging 18mpg ( and there is a fair amount if town in that..)
Insurance came in at just under £200.
The very good news - there is no smoking from the exhaust when everything is hot.
So - generally a fantastic bargain.
one the down side...
I can't find a phone that works in the carkit.
The air con doesn't work. Power gets to the compressor relay from the control unit but the earth feed doesn't. I assume it is either a fault in the pressure switch - or there is not enough gas pressure for it to start the compressor - or simply a bust wire. I haven't really looked yet. I do know it was recharged a year or so ago.
It still burns a cloud of oil at startup - which must just be valve seals. I would be more than happy to leave it as has been suggested, but I suspect it has written off the Lambda sensor - hence the MOT emissions problem. If I can find an analogue voltmeter I can check the sensor. It would be nice to perhaps get a few more mpg and/or power. The trouble is that the new lambda, if required, would be killed in the same way.
So I am thinking again of replacing the valve seals. In situ of course.
Is getting the inlet cam out as much of a pain as it looks in the Haynes manual?
Do I need all the strange gadgets? Where could I get them from?
Alternatively is there a lambda sensor bodge????
Defo a bargain barge and not ready for the canal.
It has been on the road since 1st Oct.
Passed MOT - which cost £15 for new switch circuit board from fleabay. ( taking total spend to £15 + £50 for the MOT....)
Emissions were very close at MOT but I think they decided it didn't have a cat, having thrashed it ( I assume to try to clean the lambda ) and passed it anyway.
Stalling problem has gone away.
Battery charging OK.
Doors were occasionally difficult to open from the outside. That turned out to be 3 of the door seals not seated properly into the slots in the body. Odd - but all OK now.
Drives well, doesn't overheat or do anything else nasty.
Averaging 18mpg ( and there is a fair amount if town in that..)
Insurance came in at just under £200.
The very good news - there is no smoking from the exhaust when everything is hot.
So - generally a fantastic bargain.
one the down side...
I can't find a phone that works in the carkit.
The air con doesn't work. Power gets to the compressor relay from the control unit but the earth feed doesn't. I assume it is either a fault in the pressure switch - or there is not enough gas pressure for it to start the compressor - or simply a bust wire. I haven't really looked yet. I do know it was recharged a year or so ago.
It still burns a cloud of oil at startup - which must just be valve seals. I would be more than happy to leave it as has been suggested, but I suspect it has written off the Lambda sensor - hence the MOT emissions problem. If I can find an analogue voltmeter I can check the sensor. It would be nice to perhaps get a few more mpg and/or power. The trouble is that the new lambda, if required, would be killed in the same way.
So I am thinking again of replacing the valve seals. In situ of course.
Is getting the inlet cam out as much of a pain as it looks in the Haynes manual?
Do I need all the strange gadgets? Where could I get them from?
Alternatively is there a lambda sensor bodge????
me and my bro keep having 'jag' moments, the first xj40 i had was a daimler sov that was swopped for a mini,
we have since had good, bad and very ugly, including one that failed its mot twice on emmisions, it turned out to have a burnt valve - broke for bits
we even had one that needed 24 volts to even turn over! it never ran, but was broken for bits
we have just bought a 94 jag sov with some niggles for 400 quid, 4 good tyres, full years mot etc etc.
great cars, and so cheap
we have since had good, bad and very ugly, including one that failed its mot twice on emmisions, it turned out to have a burnt valve - broke for bits
we even had one that needed 24 volts to even turn over! it never ran, but was broken for bits
we have just bought a 94 jag sov with some niggles for 400 quid, 4 good tyres, full years mot etc etc.
great cars, and so cheap
cmn123 said:
An update...
So I am thinking again of replacing the valve seals. In situ of course.
Is getting the inlet cam out as much of a pain as it looks in the Haynes manual?
Do I need all the strange gadgets? Where could I get them from?
Alternatively is there a lambda sensor bodge????
If you join the JEC (Jaguar Enthusiasts Club) you can hire many of the tools you require.So I am thinking again of replacing the valve seals. In situ of course.
Is getting the inlet cam out as much of a pain as it looks in the Haynes manual?
Do I need all the strange gadgets? Where could I get them from?
Alternatively is there a lambda sensor bodge????
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