MacBook Wireless
Discussion
Purchased a MacBook at the weekend and so far very pleased with it but I do have one issue that needs sorting.
It won't connect to my wireless router. It connected fine to my mother's (unsecured) router but won't connect to mine. It can see it ok. I've got rid of the security in case that was my issue but still no joy. Basically, it tries to connect then I get a message to the effect of "error trying to connect." Checked wireless with my old laptop and it still seems fine. It'll connect fine with the router through a wire.
Any ideas? I noticed that the wireless can be set to different channels on the router. Is this significant? If its important the router is a D-link G604 something or other.
Appreciate any help but bear in mind I'm no Mac expert (or pc for that matter) so simpler the better!
It won't connect to my wireless router. It connected fine to my mother's (unsecured) router but won't connect to mine. It can see it ok. I've got rid of the security in case that was my issue but still no joy. Basically, it tries to connect then I get a message to the effect of "error trying to connect." Checked wireless with my old laptop and it still seems fine. It'll connect fine with the router through a wire.
Any ideas? I noticed that the wireless can be set to different channels on the router. Is this significant? If its important the router is a D-link G604 something or other.
Appreciate any help but bear in mind I'm no Mac expert (or pc for that matter) so simpler the better!
bga said:
do you have WEP encryption on your router?
When I had a mac a couple of years ago, if I had WEP switched on, the passkey needed to be prefixed with a zero (0) for it to connect.
Originally, I had WEP kep on and I thought that was my problem so I turned off all security to try and sort it out but still no joy. I'll bare that in mind though when I put security back on. CheersWhen I had a mac a couple of years ago, if I had WEP switched on, the passkey needed to be prefixed with a zero (0) for it to connect.
I had a similar problem with my new MBP. I had to manually assign an IP address, rather than lettin the DHCP-thing do it for me (which got it wrong). It's within the wireless settings menu, and you can get the number from your wireless router status info.
I wonder if it's because mine is on a wireless network shared with PCs that all have manually assigned IP addresses. Works great now though..
I wonder if it's because mine is on a wireless network shared with PCs that all have manually assigned IP addresses. Works great now though..
There have been some un-Apple-like teething problems with the Atheros chipset in the Intel laptops, both MBP and MacBook. I've got an all-Mac network (including Apple 'airport extreme' wireless base station), but I've had more problems with slow wifi, dropped connections, etc. since I've used the Intel laptops than anything else.
There's an old Titanium G4 powerbook upstairs in my girlfriend's study and it's farthest from the base station (and the TiBook was always renowned for poor wifi reception), but it's solid as a rock. The iPhone works solidly. The MacBook in my office however is a nightmare of dropped connections. I have an Apple TV as well, which uses the same hardware IIRC, and it works properly
Apple are aware of this, and have issued multiple Airport updates to attempt to fix the problem - so ensure you're up to date with software updates.
From my experience, the problem is infuriatingly simple - if you're using WAP (old-style) and there's an old Windows laptop using 802.11b then the MacBook will fall apart on the network. Turn the old windows box off and it all works as expected.
It's not the obvious answer (that newer 802.11g/n isn't playing nicely with old 802.11b cards) because my old TiBook is using the original Airport card, which is 802.11b only. And I've had the MacBook operate stupidly slowly when the entire network is Apple-only. Which is annoying.
I do have two neighbours with wireless networks overlapping mine, but I'm on a different channel. I've also upgraded it to WPA2 for security reasons (I can hack WEP, so if I can, then blackhats can AFAIAC) - same result...
It seems to affect some people more than others. I can always connect, but data speed is SLOW (whereas the rest of the wireless net, AppleTV, iPhone, TiBook, etc. are all fast). It's bizarre because the AppleTV uses Intel kit as well.
As to your problem (not connecting) - check that the MAC address is enabled if you use MAC filtering (as suggested above), see if you can enable some sort of logging on the base station (many these days use embedded Linux and can log failed login attempts) - ensure that the Mac is using the right sort of authentication (old versions of OS X required a dollar sign in front of the key if using a Hex 128-bit WEP key, however later versions don't catch you out like this, and WPA2 won't need such trickery).
Last case would be to track down a copy of KisMAC somewhere and see whether you can actually browse the wireless networks available. That'd at least identify whether your wireless hardware is faulty or whether it's a manufacturer compatibility issue. FWIW I've not had many issues with Apple kit connecting to D-Link kit, but it can be a bit of a lottery especially if you're using 'pre-n' hardware with old firmware / unratified 'standard' stuff. The latest MacBooks are capable of 802.11n, but if your router isn't upgraded to the ratified 'n' standard (most routers allow firmware upgrades, you could check this as well) then you may have trouble.
Note that upgrading firmware on routers is generally very easy, but also not a job for a nervous amateur - if you lose power mid-flash then you end up with a
ed router.
It is embarrassing to admit this, but you can easily tell if it's a problem with Apple drivers by using Boot Camp to run some random copy of Windows and see if the machine works... if it works in Windows, but not OS X, then it's that pesky Atheros kext in Mac OS X (yes, I'm anal and watch all the dmesg output on boot when I (rarely) reboot my OS X boxes, and there's always a lot of errors relating to the Atheros wifi kext). I refuse to do this (no boot camp on any of my machines) but if you're already dual booting Windows then it's an easy test to do...
There's an old Titanium G4 powerbook upstairs in my girlfriend's study and it's farthest from the base station (and the TiBook was always renowned for poor wifi reception), but it's solid as a rock. The iPhone works solidly. The MacBook in my office however is a nightmare of dropped connections. I have an Apple TV as well, which uses the same hardware IIRC, and it works properly
Apple are aware of this, and have issued multiple Airport updates to attempt to fix the problem - so ensure you're up to date with software updates.
From my experience, the problem is infuriatingly simple - if you're using WAP (old-style) and there's an old Windows laptop using 802.11b then the MacBook will fall apart on the network. Turn the old windows box off and it all works as expected.
It's not the obvious answer (that newer 802.11g/n isn't playing nicely with old 802.11b cards) because my old TiBook is using the original Airport card, which is 802.11b only. And I've had the MacBook operate stupidly slowly when the entire network is Apple-only. Which is annoying.
I do have two neighbours with wireless networks overlapping mine, but I'm on a different channel. I've also upgraded it to WPA2 for security reasons (I can hack WEP, so if I can, then blackhats can AFAIAC) - same result...
It seems to affect some people more than others. I can always connect, but data speed is SLOW (whereas the rest of the wireless net, AppleTV, iPhone, TiBook, etc. are all fast). It's bizarre because the AppleTV uses Intel kit as well.
As to your problem (not connecting) - check that the MAC address is enabled if you use MAC filtering (as suggested above), see if you can enable some sort of logging on the base station (many these days use embedded Linux and can log failed login attempts) - ensure that the Mac is using the right sort of authentication (old versions of OS X required a dollar sign in front of the key if using a Hex 128-bit WEP key, however later versions don't catch you out like this, and WPA2 won't need such trickery).
Last case would be to track down a copy of KisMAC somewhere and see whether you can actually browse the wireless networks available. That'd at least identify whether your wireless hardware is faulty or whether it's a manufacturer compatibility issue. FWIW I've not had many issues with Apple kit connecting to D-Link kit, but it can be a bit of a lottery especially if you're using 'pre-n' hardware with old firmware / unratified 'standard' stuff. The latest MacBooks are capable of 802.11n, but if your router isn't upgraded to the ratified 'n' standard (most routers allow firmware upgrades, you could check this as well) then you may have trouble.
Note that upgrading firmware on routers is generally very easy, but also not a job for a nervous amateur - if you lose power mid-flash then you end up with a
ed router.It is embarrassing to admit this, but you can easily tell if it's a problem with Apple drivers by using Boot Camp to run some random copy of Windows and see if the machine works... if it works in Windows, but not OS X, then it's that pesky Atheros kext in Mac OS X (yes, I'm anal and watch all the dmesg output on boot when I (rarely) reboot my OS X boxes, and there's always a lot of errors relating to the Atheros wifi kext). I refuse to do this (no boot camp on any of my machines) but if you're already dual booting Windows then it's an easy test to do...
The Atheros drivers are a royal pain in the rump. I had nothing but arse from them on Linux (madwifi, which I suspect is what's at the heart of the MBP), as far as I could tell it just wasn't happy being in the UK due to the minor differences in frequencies and channel assignment, even when it was told to be in the UK and not the US. Gave up and ran cat5 in the end, now using an Edimax branded card (rt6 driver) and it's golden. Apparently the Atheros cards behave quite well in ndiswrapper, which probably won't help a MBP 
All things considered, I'm surprised Apple would drop one in the MBP... it's an Intel board n' chip so why not just go for an Intel WiFi card, weird.
All things considered, I'm surprised Apple would drop one in the MBP... it's an Intel board n' chip so why not just go for an Intel WiFi card, weird.
TheLearner said:
The Atheros drivers are a royal pain in the rump. I had nothing but arse from them on Linux (madwifi, which I suspect is what's at the heart of the MBP), as far as I could tell it just wasn't happy being in the UK due to the minor differences in frequencies and channel assignment, even when it was told to be in the UK and not the US. Gave up and ran cat5 in the end, now using an Edimax branded card (rt6 driver) and it's golden. Apparently the Atheros cards behave quite well in ndiswrapper, which probably won't help a MBP
All things considered, I'm surprised Apple would drop one in the MBP... it's an Intel board n' chip so why not just go for an Intel WiFi card, weird.
Yup lots of resentment in the Apple hacker community re: Atheros chipsets... there is no opensource code IIRC because of 'national security' reasons (i.e. it's a software radio at heart, and full source access would allow blackhats to use unauthorised spectra or go over FDA power limits etc.) - as a result we can't do cool stuff like put into promiscious passive mode for airsnort type packet sniffing.All things considered, I'm surprised Apple would drop one in the MBP... it's an Intel board n' chip so why not just go for an Intel WiFi card, weird.
And the implementation has IME been very buggy. With a MacBook, there's no PCMCIA / expresscard slot to use instead either.
If you want to have fun, roll on into an Apple Store and fire up an old Windows laptop using an old 802.11b card with channel hopping, I bet it brings the Apple Airport network to a crawl. Apple *need* to get this sorted. The same hardware works perfectly in their Apple TV product, and in their Mac Minis... and the iPhone works perfectly too. It's just the MacBook and MBP.
No idea why they didn't buy the Intel solution, perhaps because they didn't want to have to admit to 'Centrino Platform' or something. Or they got the Atheros chipsets *really* cheap.... ?????
markmullen said:
The other thing to do is switch on Interference Robustness, I am in an area where there are lots of wireless networks in a fairly close proximity and my PowerBook under 10.3.9 won't connect to my network if its not switched on.
G4 running Panther? Odd that, since I've still got Panther on the TiBook and it works perfectly on my network (interference robustness or not) - yet interference robustness makes NO difference to the flakiness of the MacBook.The G4s used different wifi chipsets (later ones used Broadcom IIRC, the early ones used some neato kit that allowed Kismet to work properly with a Pringles cantenna).
May not be applicable to the damn Atheros chipsets in the Intel 'books unfortunately.
For an indication how bad this problem really is..... the MacBook support forum at Apple is here - look how many threads are about Macbook problems other than Wifi-related.... hardly any....
This is one aspect (of many) where the G4 powerbooks really did work better than the new Intel kit, dual-core goodness be damned.
jamieboy said:
There may well be problems with the OSX driver, but I don't think it's just that. Running either Vista or XP, my 3-year-old Vaio has a much better wireless range than my six-month-old MBP running either Vista or OSX.
That's an Atheros chip at work in the MBP. Being software only, it's reliant on the driver for everything regardless of the OS you use. Different firmware revisions/driver revisions have wildly different effects on the cards performance. Basically they're cheap and nasty, something I'd expect to see on a cheapo disposable laptop, not an Apple product. Gassing Station | Computers, Gadgets & Stuff | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff