Expereince in dialing an F1 car into a track...

[motormania]

I heard recently that Alonso and his Engineer have stopped passing their setup data over to Lewis and his engineer for the last couple of races. Is is then just a coincidence then that in these last two races that Alonso has had the edge on his team-mate, albeit a very small one?

I'm not doubting for one minute that Lewis is not a good driver - his results this season speak volumes. However, maybe where he does lack is understanding fully how to dial in the car, something that Alonso seems to be very good at.

Would the positions be different today if he'd not given Lewis his set-ups from the start of the season?

BTW... I wish people would stop attacking Alonso, what's he done wrong apart from voice his opinion, done exactly what the FIA asked him to do and all he gets is shite from those who think he's a whisle-blower!!

[NightDriver]

motormania said:

I heard recently that Alonso and his Engineer have stopped passing their setup data over to Lewis and his engineer for the last couple of races. Is is then just a coincidence then that in these last two races that Alonso has had the edge on his team-mate, albeit a very small one?

I'm not doubting for one minute that Lewis is not a good driver - his results this season speak volumes. However, maybe where he does lack is understanding fully how to dial in the car, something that Alonso seems to be very good at.

Would the positions be different today if he'd not given Lewis his set-ups from the start of the season?

BTW... I wish people would stop attacking Alonso, what's he done wrong apart from voice his opinion, done exactly what the FIA asked him to do and all he gets is shite from those who think he's a whisle-blower!!

Wouldnt really make a huge difference to Lewis. There styles are pretty different and Lewis will still have full access to all the data from both cars from previous years. The cars are pretty much set up before they go out on track, loads of simulation work is done for each race and this can be used to get a very good base setup before the cars leave the factory.

Alonso is in his first season in the car and he wouldnt have been able to bring his setup info from last year (other than what he could remember) so they are both in a similar situation.

[cj_eds]

All he did wrong in the eyes of the FIA was to directly discuss and systematically use information on Ferrari that was gained in a dubious manner. IMHO if Mclaren as a team are going to be hammered so hard for that, then Alonso, de la Rosa, Coughlin etc should all be getting their arses kicked as well - whether it be by the FIA or by Ron Dennis as a team/company internal disciplinary.
Instead however, McLaren get the big fine, but the driver who willingly and knowingly took part in the crime will probably take the driver's crown home at the end of the year.

Thats not about hating Alonso, that's just the way I see it.

On Lewis not getting the setups from Alonso, I had wondered that myself. Experience must count for a lot in that area?

Edited by cj_eds on Monday 17th September 13:17

[LongQ]

motormania said:

BTW... I wish people would stop attacking Alonso, what's he done wrong apart from voice his opinion, done exactly what the FIA asked him to do and all he gets is shite from those who think he's a whisle-blower!!

Well, I suppose he could have responded to PdeLaR after the first email that, allegedly, confirmed the source of the information and pointed out that to take and use any of it was a blatant and dangerous thing to do under the terms of the FIA sporting code and that he wanted no further part of it.

Now it seems that he may well benefit personally, thanks to Mosley's letter even though for public consumption it was dressed up as a threat, and should he move on could be welcomed with an open cheque book by those he most helped (apparently) in the end.

That would add an entirely new angle to the business of Motor Sport. With decent internal coverage it might be more interesting than the racing.

[motormania]

cj_eds said:

All he did wrong in the eyes of the FIA was to directly discuss and systematically use information on Ferrari that was gained in a dubious manner. IMHO if Mclaren as a team are going to be hammered so hard for that, then Alonso, de la Rosa, Coughlin etc should all be getting their arses kicked as well - whether it be by the FIA or by Ron Dennis as a team/company internal disciplinary.
Instead however, McLaren get the big fine, but the driver who willingly and knowingly took part in the crime will probably take the driver's crown home at the end of the year.

I'm sorry but you can not remove Lewis from the equation... are you telling me that 'IF' and it's a big 'IF' McLaren had found an advantage from entering the test data during a simulation (which according to reports were never actually used in the simulator) that Lewis' car would not have had those tweaks made to it?

As Ron keeps telling us, McLaren give equal equipment to both drivers...

If anyone wants to try and bring Alonso down, then Lewis, by default has to come down too!

[motormania]

LongQ said:

motormania said:

BTW... I wish people would stop attacking Alonso, what's he done wrong apart from voice his opinion, done exactly what the FIA asked him to do and all he gets is shite from those who think he's a whisle-blower!!

Well, I suppose he could have responded to PdeLaR after the first email that, allegedly, confirmed the source of the information and pointed out that to take and use any of it was a blatant and dangerous thing to do under the terms of the FIA sporting code and that he wanted no further part of it.

Now it seems that he may well benefit personally, thanks to Mosley's letter even though for public consumption it was dressed up as a threat, and should he move on could be welcomed with an open cheque book by those he most helped (apparently) in the end.

That would add an entirely new angle to the business of Motor Sport. With decent internal coverage it might be more interesting than the racing.

The whole spy saga is total boocks in my view...

Why don't the FIA attack Autosport who explain all the technical wizardary new on the cars each week with detailed drawings and explanations from technical experts? Is this spying????

...and as someone else has said in the past, McLaren were 'given' the data by Ferrari, they didn't need to do any spying

[cj_eds]

motormania said:

cj_eds said:

All he did wrong in the eyes of the FIA was to directly discuss and systematically use information on Ferrari that was gained in a dubious manner. IMHO if Mclaren as a team are going to be hammered so hard for that, then Alonso, de la Rosa, Coughlin etc should all be getting their arses kicked as well - whether it be by the FIA or by Ron Dennis as a team/company internal disciplinary.
Instead however, McLaren get the big fine, but the driver who willingly and knowingly took part in the crime will probably take the driver's crown home at the end of the year.

I'm sorry but you can not remove Lewis from the equation... are you telling me that 'IF' and it's a big 'IF' McLaren had found an advantage from entering the test data during a simulation (which according to reports were never actually used in the simulator) that Lewis' car would not have had those tweaks made to it?

As Ron keeps telling us, McLaren give equal equipment to both drivers...

If anyone wants to try and bring Alonso down, then Lewis, by default has to come down too!

You've changed the reason for punishment though. If its for taking part in a race in a car that was developed illegally, then yes, both drivers should be punished because its unfair compared to the rest of the grid.
If however as my post was meant to point out, if you've been caught (in writing) personally using and requesting illegal data then you should be punished. So far there's been no public evidence that Hamilton helped to use the Ferrari data.

So punishment depends on the crime.

[Baldylocks]

Alonso's data was obviously a help to LH in the early part of the season. And the withdrawal of this help could explain how the balance has swung the other way between them now.

But there are other factors like the switch from Michelin tyres to Bridgestone for Alonso this year - I understand he had to adapt his style of driving to the new tyre. LH did not have this problem; either because he was not already dialed in to Michelin tyres or they just suited his style well anyway.

[uktrailmonster]

Both cars would start the race weekend with the same baseline setup, perhaps with a few specific tweaks to suit individual driving styles. But the last couple of tenths of laptime are gained from fine tuning the baseline setup to suit the specific track and ambient conditions faced over the weekend. This is where a more experienced driver/engineer pairing can make a significant difference. Normally information is shared between the race engineers, but if this sharing is not happening then one driver may stand to gain a small advantage. In this case I would expect Alonso to have the edge with his past experience.

[LocoBlade]

Alonso has been a tad quicker these last two races, but prior to that there was Turkey where Hamilton was the quicker but had his tyre problem. Before that was Hungary IIRC which Hamilton won and was equal if not a smidge quicker during quali, had they both done two runs in final quali of course

I think Brundle may have got it right though when he said that Lewis could be tightening up a bit with nerves as the season comes to a close, and/or has had his mind on the FIA hearing more than Alonso which has been a distraction.

[sosidge]

LocoBlade said:

Alonso has been a tad quicker these last two races, but prior to that there was Turkey where Hamilton was the quicker but had his tyre problem. Before that was Hungary IIRC which Hamilton won and was equal if not a smidge quicker during quali, had they both done two runs in final quali of course

I think Brundle may have got it right though when he said that Lewis could be tightening up a bit with nerves as the season comes to a close, and/or has had his mind on the FIA hearing more than Alonso which has been a distraction.

Alonso was quicker at Turkey but made an error in choosing to go out on the hard tyre for his last qualifying lap. Had he not done that I expect he would have been on the front row instead of Lewis. Lewis' tyre failure maybe says a little about setup as well.

Lewis was quicker at Hungary. However Lewis' behaviour in that session (and Alonso's reaction to it) was probably the final straw in their relationship and the moment that Alonso decided he would not co-operate with the other side of the garage any more.

My opinion is that Alonso's engineering crew stopped sharing info after Hungary, which is why Alonso has managed to find a few tenths over Lewis at each race since, whereas in the middle part of the season Lewis's superior raw pace meant he was finding those tenths in qualifying at least.

[LocoBlade]

sosidge said:

Alonso was quicker at Turkey but made an error in choosing to go out on the hard tyre for his last qualifying lap. Had he not done that I expect he would have been on the front row instead of Lewis. Lewis' tyre failure maybe says a little about setup as well.

Yeh could be right, I was thinking more in the race where even when Alonso had clean air (having cleared the BMWs IIRC?) he didn't seem to have great pace.

[chris_tivver]

motormania said:

BTW... I wish people would stop attacking Alonso, what's he done wrong apart from voice his opinion

Blackmail?

[motormania]

chris_tivver said:

motormania said:

BTW... I wish people would stop attacking Alonso, what's he done wrong apart from voice his opinion

Blackmail?

So you believe everything the media write then?

Sex and scandal sells papers, thankfully I never read papers, especially the red tops! Not even worth eating chips off...