Wohooo! I get my 'new' (old) car tomorrow!
Discussion
After a few months with nothing but a FWD repmobile to entertain, my new toy should be arriving tomorrow. I'm going retro with a very (very) yellow Sylva Leader. Being one of the last batch, technically it's Leader 400.
For those not familiar with them, they're vaguely similar in looks to a Phaeton (a little less sevenesque perhaps) and I think it's fair to say the styling is somewhat of an aquired taste. However, in place of the wheezing pinto and cart springs, the Leader has a Fiat twin cam running on twin carbs with a side exit exhaust (can't wait to hear that start up!) a 5 (or technically 6) link coil sprung rear axle. It's also a comparitively trim 630kgs, with about 140hp to play with.
There are a few things on my to-do list (needs a new tyre and would benefit from a new set of rear dampers, plus a hood) but the car had a body off rebuild a couple of years ago so everything is looking very smart with no gel coat problems or chassis rust.
I ran a Quantum for some time in the past (loved it and I still have it in storage....) but I suppose this is the first car I've owned in the traditional kit car mould.
For those not familiar with them, they're vaguely similar in looks to a Phaeton (a little less sevenesque perhaps) and I think it's fair to say the styling is somewhat of an aquired taste. However, in place of the wheezing pinto and cart springs, the Leader has a Fiat twin cam running on twin carbs with a side exit exhaust (can't wait to hear that start up!) a 5 (or technically 6) link coil sprung rear axle. It's also a comparitively trim 630kgs, with about 140hp to play with.
There are a few things on my to-do list (needs a new tyre and would benefit from a new set of rear dampers, plus a hood) but the car had a body off rebuild a couple of years ago so everything is looking very smart with no gel coat problems or chassis rust.
I ran a Quantum for some time in the past (loved it and I still have it in storage....) but I suppose this is the first car I've owned in the traditional kit car mould.
Davi said:
Congrats mate 
I take it you got the indicator problem sorted?
Nope I take it you got the indicator problem sorted? 
I think the MOT tester was quite a close friend of the seller. In fact I'm sure he was. I have a to do list - part of it is printed, part of it is penciled on if you get what I mean.
Latest drama is he doesn't know if it actually will fit the car trailer! But assuming that goes to plan I should get it midday ish tomorrow and I'll try and post some pics on Monday. That gives me time to think of some more excuses for it's 'retro' appearance!
Edited by Chris71 on Friday 21st September 18:03
Chris71 said:
Davi said:
Congrats mate I take it you got the indicator problem sorted?
Nope I take it you got the indicator problem sorted? I think the MOT tester was quite a close friend of the seller. In fact I'm sure he was. I have a to do list - part of it is printed, part of it is penciled on if you get what I mean.
Latest drama is he doesn't know if it actually will fit the car trailer! But assuming that goes to plan I should get it midday ish tomorrow and I'll try and post some pics on Monday. That gives me time to think of some more excuses for it's 'retro' appearance!
Edited by Chris71 on Friday 21st September 18:03
Must be a bloomin small car trailer?! Not exactly the biggest of cars out there is it! I'd go with the old "my 7 year old daughter designed it with crayon - why?" approach, nobody's going to diss a young girls efforts
Right it's here!
Coming off the trailer.....
Quite like this shot (it's not me being arty the lense wwas smudged!)
The (not so) oily bits....
Believe it or not they actually look rather good in the flesh on account of being tiny. It's not that much bigger than something like a 106 in reality and I think because of that the noddy car styling actually works!
For my £1200 I got a nice shiny car with 12 months MOT, a spare engine, spare cylinder head and spare gearbox, plus loads of history and a few odds and ends.
When I took it out on Saturday the first thing that struck me was how tractable it was - it'll idle drive in traffic and the gearbox (although being curiously devoid of feel) is beautifully precise. The noise is incredible (your ear is about 2 feet away from the exhaust exit!) and strangely what it most reminds me of is a Riley Brooklands!
On the downside, I'm trying to work out if there is a problem with the brakes or whether they really were that bad in the 70s (.....am I just soft, never having driven unservoed brakes before?) and there is a strange misfire. I only noticed it towards the end of the run on Saturday, which made me think I'd been taking it gently when I first drove the car and hadn't noticed it. I replaced the aging HT leads and took a look at the rotor arm, which both seemed to be ok and checeked for anything visibly wrong with the carbs, then on Sunday I took it out again. Grinning from ear to ear I thought I'd fixed it as the car appeared to be pulling fine all through the rev range. Then after maybe 10 minutes of running it started to have the occasional misfire again. Initially it was just a little hesitation at high revs or a sudden accel, but it occured at progressively lower engine speeds and lighter accels over the next 5 minutes or so until it was like someone had lowered a rev limiter to 3000rpm. I originally thought I hadn't given it enough stick for the problem to occur to start with the previous day, but it now seems the problem is dependant on time running or possibly engine temperature.
Any ideas?
There were a few other things - the clutch pedal has a huge ammount of travel, but fortunately only works over a small ammount of it. The accelerator likewise goes a long way (don't know how much of this travel is used) and the steering seems very stiff even for an unassisted rack (it's a 600kg car with the engine well back, but feels heavier than my anything else I've driven barring a TE20!) I don't know if this is just tyre pressures, me going soft with PAS equipped cars or something more sinister in the rack.
Anyway, it's great fun and still represents great value for money I reckon even if it needs a few quid to get it right. The other thing you notice is peoples reaction to it - it gets a lot of attention, which I wouldn't usually be keen on, but it was universally positive, even from the most unlikely sources - old ladies, middle aged Rover drivers and even the local constabulary smiled when they saw it. I was driving it round the block in my suburban neighbourhood where usually anything remotely loud (literally or metaphorically) is frowned on trying to diagnose the misfire and nobody seemed to object.
Coming off the trailer.....
Quite like this shot (it's not me being arty the lense wwas smudged!)
The (not so) oily bits....
Believe it or not they actually look rather good in the flesh on account of being tiny. It's not that much bigger than something like a 106 in reality and I think because of that the noddy car styling actually works!
For my £1200 I got a nice shiny car with 12 months MOT, a spare engine, spare cylinder head and spare gearbox, plus loads of history and a few odds and ends.
When I took it out on Saturday the first thing that struck me was how tractable it was - it'll idle drive in traffic and the gearbox (although being curiously devoid of feel) is beautifully precise. The noise is incredible (your ear is about 2 feet away from the exhaust exit!) and strangely what it most reminds me of is a Riley Brooklands!
On the downside, I'm trying to work out if there is a problem with the brakes or whether they really were that bad in the 70s (.....am I just soft, never having driven unservoed brakes before?) and there is a strange misfire. I only noticed it towards the end of the run on Saturday, which made me think I'd been taking it gently when I first drove the car and hadn't noticed it. I replaced the aging HT leads and took a look at the rotor arm, which both seemed to be ok and checeked for anything visibly wrong with the carbs, then on Sunday I took it out again. Grinning from ear to ear I thought I'd fixed it as the car appeared to be pulling fine all through the rev range. Then after maybe 10 minutes of running it started to have the occasional misfire again. Initially it was just a little hesitation at high revs or a sudden accel, but it occured at progressively lower engine speeds and lighter accels over the next 5 minutes or so until it was like someone had lowered a rev limiter to 3000rpm. I originally thought I hadn't given it enough stick for the problem to occur to start with the previous day, but it now seems the problem is dependant on time running or possibly engine temperature.
Any ideas?
There were a few other things - the clutch pedal has a huge ammount of travel, but fortunately only works over a small ammount of it. The accelerator likewise goes a long way (don't know how much of this travel is used) and the steering seems very stiff even for an unassisted rack (it's a 600kg car with the engine well back, but feels heavier than my anything else I've driven barring a TE20!) I don't know if this is just tyre pressures, me going soft with PAS equipped cars or something more sinister in the rack.
Anyway, it's great fun and still represents great value for money I reckon even if it needs a few quid to get it right. The other thing you notice is peoples reaction to it - it gets a lot of attention, which I wouldn't usually be keen on, but it was universally positive, even from the most unlikely sources - old ladies, middle aged Rover drivers and even the local constabulary smiled when they saw it. I was driving it round the block in my suburban neighbourhood where usually anything remotely loud (literally or metaphorically) is frowned on trying to diagnose the misfire and nobody seemed to object.
Edited by Chris71 on Monday 24th September 14:50
Bearing in mind that I'm usually the one taking advice rather than giving it, I'd check your dizzy first and make sure it's done up tight! My first thought was fuel related, but spark would be as good a punt. Is it running a fuel regulator? Maybe the pumps had it's day? The carbs might need setting up properly, which isnt a bad job, just a ballache
Your other problem is likely to be the bracket that the throttle cable pins to. I had the exact opposite of this problem on the 2+2, the pedal wouldnt travel but I could get full revs. Turned out that the mounting bracket screws were pulling themselves out. In fine kit car tradition, some threadlock and a 10mm long socket soon sorted that out!
Hope you iron out the problems soon. Whats the cam thats in it?
Your other problem is likely to be the bracket that the throttle cable pins to. I had the exact opposite of this problem on the 2+2, the pedal wouldnt travel but I could get full revs. Turned out that the mounting bracket screws were pulling themselves out. In fine kit car tradition, some threadlock and a 10mm long socket soon sorted that out!
Hope you iron out the problems soon. Whats the cam thats in it?
I'm not that knowledgable on carbs and distributor ignition, but I had a look at the dizzy and there were no obvious signs of play in the rotor shaft or arcing anywhere. There's an electrical (well electromechanical) fuel pump that I can here ticking away. I managed to turn that off by accident last night and it did produce a fairly similar effect, so maybe it is fuel starvation, but the key thing is it takes about 15 minutes to manifest itself, which is why I thought it was more likely to something electrical breaking down (a coil or something) or something related to temperature.
Everything seemed to be working as intended on the throttle cable (well, up until last night, but that's another story) I think they've just got the leverages all wrong. One thing I don't understand is it has twin throttle cables, but they both seem to pull onto the same linkage, I can't see why one isn't addequate? The mechanism is basically just a belcrank with the throttle cables anchored at the top - it does look like there are holes to move the anchor point down (changing the leverage), but it look's like they'd foul the body of one the carbs in this installation.
The other thing is the seats! The mountings are assymetrical side to side and they've already been repositioned enough times that some of the holes are starting to slot into one another. There are a few other nasty bodges like that, but the major stuff seems quite solid.
edit: Not sure about the cams. I thought they were fairly standard given how tractable it is at low revs, but having driven it a bit more it's seems to take off at about 4000rpm. It's a very smooth transition (I've driven some cars with a hot cam where it's almost like a step!) though.
Everything seemed to be working as intended on the throttle cable (well, up until last night, but that's another story
) I think they've just got the leverages all wrong. One thing I don't understand is it has twin throttle cables, but they both seem to pull onto the same linkage, I can't see why one isn't addequate? The mechanism is basically just a belcrank with the throttle cables anchored at the top - it does look like there are holes to move the anchor point down (changing the leverage), but it look's like they'd foul the body of one the carbs in this installation.The other thing is the seats! The mountings are assymetrical side to side and they've already been repositioned enough times that some of the holes are starting to slot into one another. There are a few other nasty bodges like that, but the major stuff seems quite solid.
edit: Not sure about the cams. I thought they were fairly standard given how tractable it is at low revs, but having driven it a bit more it's seems to take off at about 4000rpm. It's a very smooth transition (I've driven some cars with a hot cam where it's almost like a step!) though.
Edited by Chris71 on Tuesday 25th September 10:13
Hi Chris,
Had the car been stood a while before you got it?
Reason I ask is that I had a similar problem years ago with a Capri I'd fitted a used set of 40DCOEs to. Ran fine at low revs, would rev up OK once then start running like crap.
Turned out to be dirt in the internal passageways in the carbs. Had to drill all the plugs out and clear them with a needle.
Had the car been stood a while before you got it?
Reason I ask is that I had a similar problem years ago with a Capri I'd fitted a used set of 40DCOEs to. Ran fine at low revs, would rev up OK once then start running like crap.
Turned out to be dirt in the internal passageways in the carbs. Had to drill all the plugs out and clear them with a needle.
Hi Graham,
It has indeed. It's done 500 miles in 18 months and all of that was at the begining. It has been run every so often up and down the previous owners drive, but in terms of prolonged running, I'm guessing that hasn't happened since the last tax disc expired 12 months ago!
The thing is this runs for 10 or 15 minutes before it has problems, would carb blockage take that long to have an effect?
It has indeed. It's done 500 miles in 18 months and all of that was at the begining. It has been run every so often up and down the previous owners drive, but in terms of prolonged running, I'm guessing that hasn't happened since the last tax disc expired 12 months ago!
The thing is this runs for 10 or 15 minutes before it has problems, would carb blockage take that long to have an effect?
grahambell said:
Hi Chris,
Had the car been stood a while before you got it?
Reason I ask is that I had a similar problem years ago with a Capri I'd fitted a used set of 40DCOEs to. Ran fine at low revs, would rev up OK once then start running like crap.
Turned out to be dirt in the internal passageways in the carbs. Had to drill all the plugs out and clear them with a needle.
I've had this in the past, the dirt in my case actually being corrosion from the ally! builds up into a bloody hard substance.Had the car been stood a while before you got it?
Reason I ask is that I had a similar problem years ago with a Capri I'd fitted a used set of 40DCOEs to. Ran fine at low revs, would rev up OK once then start running like crap.
Turned out to be dirt in the internal passageways in the carbs. Had to drill all the plugs out and clear them with a needle.
Chris71 said:
One thing I don't understand is it has twin throttle cables, but they both seem to pull onto the same linkage, I can't see why one isn't addequate?
Twin throttle cables are very common on DCOE setups for competition use. MSA regs state you need visible return springs, and as the DCOE have a built in (non-visible) spring already it can put a lot of strain on a single throttle cable.Chris71 said:
The thing is this runs for 10 or 15 minutes before it has problems, would carb blockage take that long to have an effect?
Maybe if the blockage isn't total, enough fuel can trickle past when the car's stood, or even just ticking over, to enable it to run low revs OK for a short time. Only guessing though.How much room is there in these Sylvas? I can get into a Raw Striker much as I can squeeze into the cupboard under the stairs - it can be done but I'd not want to be in there more than a minute or so. I ask because there's plenty up on ebay but at 6'4"/15st I'm not sure it's worth getting excited.
Edited by Melch on Tuesday 25th September 13:23
Chris71 said:
I'm not that knowledgable on carbs and distributor ignition, but I had a look at the dizzy and there were no obvious signs of play in the rotor shaft or arcing anywhere. There's an electrical (well electromechanical) fuel pump that I can here ticking away. I managed to turn that off by accident last night and it did produce a fairly similar effect, so maybe it is fuel starvation, but the key thing is it takes about 15 minutes to manifest itself, which is why I thought it was more likely to something electrical breaking down (a coil or something) or something related to temperature.
My immediate thought reading this where you said you reproduce a similar fault by causing fuel starvation and it starts when the car warms up made me think that the fuel line may be running somewhere hot causing prevapourisation thus causing fuel starvation Just my initial thought could be total guff tho
Vindi_andy said:
Chris71 said:
I'm not that knowledgable on carbs and distributor ignition, but I had a look at the dizzy and there were no obvious signs of play in the rotor shaft or arcing anywhere. There's an electrical (well electromechanical) fuel pump that I can here ticking away. I managed to turn that off by accident last night and it did produce a fairly similar effect, so maybe it is fuel starvation, but the key thing is it takes about 15 minutes to manifest itself, which is why I thought it was more likely to something electrical breaking down (a coil or something) or something related to temperature.
My immediate thought reading this where you said you reproduce a similar fault by causing fuel starvation and it starts when the car warms up made me think that the fuel line may be running somewhere hot causing prevapourisation thus causing fuel starvation Just my initial thought could be total guff tho
If you have a spare fuel cap (or can use one of those temporary ones sold at petrol stations) you can drill a small hole in it and try the running test again.
Fiat Unos used to have a big problem with this back in the day.
The more I think about it, the more it reminds me of a faulty facet pump I had on the Quantum. The pump would just cut out randomly, so it'd use what fuel it had already put through to the regulator, then choke. Might be that thats caused it.
I also got a new regulator while I changed the pump, I wanted one with a gauge on so I could measure the flow rate to 3.5 as I knew it was out, wasnt sure by how much though
I also got a new regulator while I changed the pump, I wanted one with a gauge on so I could measure the flow rate to 3.5 as I knew it was out, wasnt sure by how much though
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