When did BMW stop using cable throttles?
Discussion
I'm thinking about buying a four door car for everyday use and would like a BMW. Having owned a cable throttle E36 325i (great car) and a drive by wire E46 330ci (the worst car I've ever driven), I'm trying to find out what the youngest model I can get is that still has a cable throttle. So far as I know is is a 1999 328i - is this correct?
thanks
thanks
Thanks for the responses guys. I didn't realise that they made 328s (E36 I presume) in 2000. I was somewhat surprised that Pistonheads classifieds was about 90% coupes (I'd want a four door), and also at the high prices of the cars on there - I thought there would be more of a step change between the E36 and E46.
RobM77 said:
Thanks for the responses guys. I didn't realise that they made 328s (E36 I presume) in 2000. I was somewhat surprised that Pistonheads classifieds was about 90% coupes (I'd want a four door), and also at the high prices of the cars on there - I thought there would be more of a step change between the E36 and E46.
E36 reached end of life in mid 99. Wikipedia says it ended 98 - that explains why my 318iS is early/mid 99 ....The price difference between the E36 and E46 does seem quite minimal.
Not sure I really understand why this fly by wire is such a big issue? Had it on my previous and current E39s and think it feels very "natural" with no disadvantages whatsoever, with no lag or delay in the throttle response. Maybe it's different on an E46 but would be surprised if that was the case.
Here are the BMWs that I've got experience of:
Petrol:
E30 318i (passenger) - no lag at all
E30 320i (passenger) - no lag at all
E30 325i - no lag at all
E36 325i - no lag at all
E36 316i (passenger) - no lag at all
E46 - 330ci - terrible lag, undriveable.
E46 - 330ci (another one) - between half a second and a second delay.
E46 - 330i saloon - terrible lag, undriveable.
1 series 116i - half a second delay
1 series 118i - half a second delay
1 series 120i - half a second delay
BMW X3 3.0 - half a second delay
BMW 645i (passenger with several demoes of the lag by the driver) - half a second delay
Diesel:
E46 - 320d - no lag
New shape 320d - no lag
1 series 118d - no lag
The end result is that until BMW sort this out I'll never buy another petrol one. I prefer BMWs to other saloons though as I like rear wheel drive and the balanced chassis setup, thus my question, as I'm after the newest possible petrol BMW with a cable throttle.
Petrol:
E30 318i (passenger) - no lag at all
E30 320i (passenger) - no lag at all
E30 325i - no lag at all
E36 325i - no lag at all
E36 316i (passenger) - no lag at all
E46 - 330ci - terrible lag, undriveable.
E46 - 330ci (another one) - between half a second and a second delay.
E46 - 330i saloon - terrible lag, undriveable.
1 series 116i - half a second delay
1 series 118i - half a second delay
1 series 120i - half a second delay
BMW X3 3.0 - half a second delay
BMW 645i (passenger with several demoes of the lag by the driver) - half a second delay
Diesel:
E46 - 320d - no lag
New shape 320d - no lag
1 series 118d - no lag
The end result is that until BMW sort this out I'll never buy another petrol one. I prefer BMWs to other saloons though as I like rear wheel drive and the balanced chassis setup, thus my question, as I'm after the newest possible petrol BMW with a cable throttle.
Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 4th October 09:13
Perhaps one of these would help?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
Once brought you could swap it from car to car.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...
Once brought you could swap it from car to car.
Hey Rob
I know we've spoken online about this before but I had a 2001 330Ci Sport and my brother had the same model from 2002 and neither of these exhibited *any* of the terrible symptoms you described on your vehicle. I tries that tapping the throttle test and the response was so sharp as to nearly buck me out of my seat.
I know you've been burned badly with your experiences of the car (as would I have been!) but it may be worth test driving the actual models you want to buy to see if they are the same before ruling out anything with a fly-by-wire throttle.
Best of luck
dumbfunk
I know we've spoken online about this before but I had a 2001 330Ci Sport and my brother had the same model from 2002 and neither of these exhibited *any* of the terrible symptoms you described on your vehicle. I tries that tapping the throttle test and the response was so sharp as to nearly buck me out of my seat.
I know you've been burned badly with your experiences of the car (as would I have been!) but it may be worth test driving the actual models you want to buy to see if they are the same before ruling out anything with a fly-by-wire throttle.
Best of luck
dumbfunk
dumbfunk said:
Hey Rob
I know we've spoken online about this before but I had a 2001 330Ci Sport and my brother had the same model from 2002 and neither of these exhibited *any* of the terrible symptoms you described on your vehicle. I tries that tapping the throttle test and the response was so sharp as to nearly buck me out of my seat.
I know you've been burned badly with your experiences of the car (as would I have been!) but it may be worth test driving the actual models you want to buy to see if they are the same before ruling out anything with a fly-by-wire throttle.
Best of luck
dumbfunk
Hi there - yes I do remember e-mailing you whilst I owned the car. After speaking to you I drove two other 330s (friends of my father's) and both did it - I forgot to add those to the list above! (done now). Coincidentally, a friend of mine was looking for a 330 last year and we drove a load more, but they all did it to varying degrees (one was worse than mine, but the rest were better). I will be all means test drive a few different E46s, but so far I've yet to drive any post 2000 model BMW that doesn't have a delay (see above).I know we've spoken online about this before but I had a 2001 330Ci Sport and my brother had the same model from 2002 and neither of these exhibited *any* of the terrible symptoms you described on your vehicle. I tries that tapping the throttle test and the response was so sharp as to nearly buck me out of my seat.
I know you've been burned badly with your experiences of the car (as would I have been!) but it may be worth test driving the actual models you want to buy to see if they are the same before ruling out anything with a fly-by-wire throttle.
Best of luck
dumbfunk
Sorry, I can't get to E Bay from work and it's my only internet access - what lies behind the link?
I'm not sure why there should be a problem with the drive-by-wire set up. I drive a 1997 850Ci which has drive-by-wire and there's no hesitation or delay in throttle response at all, if you didn't know it was drive-by-wire I would be surprised if anyone could tell.
May be there's some duff set up throttles out there?
May be there's some duff set up throttles out there?
Not that I encountered a problem with any of the BMWs I've driven so far - but I reckon if there's a throttle response problem on a car with E-gas, it's a software issue entirely and thus it should be possible to eradicate it with a remap.
Interestingly, the only problems I've encountered with drive by wire throttles in general is where initial part-throttle response has been very aggressively mapped (i.e. 40% depression of the pedal is translated into 99% opening of the throttle butterfly) to disguise turbo lag. Bery neat trick if the car in question happens to have a torque steer problem that you don't want to have rubbed in your nose every time you gently accelerate out of a corner...
Interestingly, the only problems I've encountered with drive by wire throttles in general is where initial part-throttle response has been very aggressively mapped (i.e. 40% depression of the pedal is translated into 99% opening of the throttle butterfly) to disguise turbo lag. Bery neat trick if the car in question happens to have a torque steer problem that you don't want to have rubbed in your nose every time you gently accelerate out of a corner...
I've driven a remapped 330 (remapped by a well known tuner at a fair cost, who I won't name) and the delay was less, but still about half a second. Not worth the money.
I don't think the cars that I've driven have had problems. All but one of those 1 series cars were at a launch event at Rockingham, and they were straight from the factory and otherwise immaculately prepared. The two X3s were also brand new. In addition to these launch events, I drove an X3 for two weeks and a 1 series for a week, and in all situations there was a delay on the throttle pedal in the cars.
What I do know is that this affects some people more than others. My friend with the 645i claimed it had no delay at all, so we went out in it one lunchtime and sure enough, there was a delay there. Once I'd pointed it out ne realised that it did it, but said it didn't bother him. Up until that day though he'd never noticed. Unfortunately, it bothers me to the point where I could never own a car that does it, hence the question. It's not just car nuts either, a friend of mine's mother has terrible trouble with her Honda Civic because of the delay.
I'll think I'll look out for an E46 328i
Oh, and BMW, if you're reading this, you're losing buyers by the minute, and even to my knowledge chatting in car clubs down the pub etc you've lost several new car purchases because of this issue - sort it out! If Porsche and Lotus can, I'm sure you can!
I don't think the cars that I've driven have had problems. All but one of those 1 series cars were at a launch event at Rockingham, and they were straight from the factory and otherwise immaculately prepared. The two X3s were also brand new. In addition to these launch events, I drove an X3 for two weeks and a 1 series for a week, and in all situations there was a delay on the throttle pedal in the cars.
What I do know is that this affects some people more than others. My friend with the 645i claimed it had no delay at all, so we went out in it one lunchtime and sure enough, there was a delay there. Once I'd pointed it out ne realised that it did it, but said it didn't bother him. Up until that day though he'd never noticed. Unfortunately, it bothers me to the point where I could never own a car that does it, hence the question. It's not just car nuts either, a friend of mine's mother has terrible trouble with her Honda Civic because of the delay.
I'll think I'll look out for an E46 328i
Oh, and BMW, if you're reading this, you're losing buyers by the minute, and even to my knowledge chatting in car clubs down the pub etc you've lost several new car purchases because of this issue - sort it out! If Porsche and Lotus can, I'm sure you can!
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