I can not understand all this negative talk...
Discussion
I'm confused 
Why are so many people so angry about Alonso this year?
Ready to protect myself from massive flame!
The FIA put him and the other drivers into a no win situation. Either talk or we shall kick you out of the drivers championship.
If you was a driver, would you keep quite and be kicked out, or would you speak, knowing that you'd keep your title chances alive?
How quickly we seem to forget all the Schumacher scandals for which we never did get to the bottom of, I guess all that anger is now being directed (fueled by the UK media
) straight to Alonso.
Funny how so many people complain that there are no characters in F1 any more, so when we have a guy who clearly does not follow the party line and is prepared to stand out, so many seem to dislike it!!!
What do you want, drivers who roll-over
and confide in PR guru's before speaking, or those like the Hunt's, Irvine's and Villenuve's of past who speak their mind 
I loved it when Webber gave his reaction to Louise's question after being punted off by the school kid - a well rehearsed piece of PC Corporate speak... NOT
You could almost feel the whole ITV Lewis Hamilton Appreciation Team start quaking in their shoes at the use of the word 
! (FECK - changed because it's even sensored in here!!) Come on what did you expect the guy to say? Good on you Webber 
and here's to more in the pitlane who stick two fingers up to the corporate PC nanny state that F1 is becoming each year, bring it on...
Why are so many people so angry about Alonso this year?
Ready to protect myself from massive flame!
The FIA put him and the other drivers into a no win situation. Either talk or we shall kick you out of the drivers championship.
If you was a driver, would you keep quite and be kicked out, or would you speak, knowing that you'd keep your title chances alive?
How quickly we seem to forget all the Schumacher scandals for which we never did get to the bottom of, I guess all that anger is now being directed (fueled by the UK media
) straight to Alonso.Funny how so many people complain that there are no characters in F1 any more, so when we have a guy who clearly does not follow the party line and is prepared to stand out, so many seem to dislike it!!!
What do you want, drivers who roll-over
and confide in PR guru's before speaking, or those like the Hunt's, Irvine's and Villenuve's of past who speak their mind I loved it when Webber gave his reaction to Louise's question after being punted off by the school kid - a well rehearsed piece of PC Corporate speak... NOT
You could almost feel the whole ITV Lewis Hamilton Appreciation Team start quaking in their shoes at the use of the word ! (FECK - changed because it's even sensored in here!!) Come on what did you expect the guy to say? Good on you Webber and here's to more in the pitlane who stick two fingers up to the corporate PC nanny state that F1 is becoming each year, bring it on...truthfully, I've been a big fan of Alonso - I supported him all the way when he was at renault.
I was so happy he won the championship twice, and couldnt wait to see him in the McLaren.
I did my damnest to ignore the hype and fevermongering in the press about his attitude and rivalry with Hamilton.
But, as the season has drawn on and on - he has just continued to get worse - even ignoring the media - the statements he comes out with on camera, he just went down in my estimation.
Perhaps its the pressure, perhaps theres more to it than we know - but what happened to the cheeky likeable chap we saw last year? He's been replaced with a sulky, moody, complainer - who isnt happy even when hes winning.
I was so happy he won the championship twice, and couldnt wait to see him in the McLaren.
I did my damnest to ignore the hype and fevermongering in the press about his attitude and rivalry with Hamilton.
But, as the season has drawn on and on - he has just continued to get worse - even ignoring the media - the statements he comes out with on camera, he just went down in my estimation.
Perhaps its the pressure, perhaps theres more to it than we know - but what happened to the cheeky likeable chap we saw last year? He's been replaced with a sulky, moody, complainer - who isnt happy even when hes winning.
How about that despite moaning about not getting equal treatement he was in fact himself going behind his team owners back (and LH) to use information he knew he shouldn't have .
Lets try and create a metaphor.
You own a butchers and you employ Alonso and Hamilton to prepare your meat.
Alonso decides he is going to start taking in contaminated meat not for human consumption through the back door from a man he knows and add it in with his weekly output so he can earn a little extra for the number of joints he has prepared (The staff are on piece rate).
Despite Alonso's attempts Hamilton butchers so quick that he still earns a little more than Alonso.
Alonso is then furious and comes to you demanding(blackmailing) equal pay or he is going to tell trading standards about your unfit meat (that you didn't even know about).
Fearing punishment or a health and safety closedown you report the bad meat you have unwittingly sold and where it has come from.
The authorities ignore thae fact that your employee was the source of the problem and hit your butchery business with a swinghing fine whilst protecting the purpotrator.
Now would you as a butcher employ the same Alonso again or would you see him as a self serving unscrupulous unprincipled grubby two faced pratt.
Lets try and create a metaphor.
You own a butchers and you employ Alonso and Hamilton to prepare your meat.
Alonso decides he is going to start taking in contaminated meat not for human consumption through the back door from a man he knows and add it in with his weekly output so he can earn a little extra for the number of joints he has prepared (The staff are on piece rate).
Despite Alonso's attempts Hamilton butchers so quick that he still earns a little more than Alonso.
Alonso is then furious and comes to you demanding(blackmailing) equal pay or he is going to tell trading standards about your unfit meat (that you didn't even know about).
Fearing punishment or a health and safety closedown you report the bad meat you have unwittingly sold and where it has come from.
The authorities ignore thae fact that your employee was the source of the problem and hit your butchery business with a swinghing fine whilst protecting the purpotrator.
Now would you as a butcher employ the same Alonso again or would you see him as a self serving unscrupulous unprincipled grubby two faced pratt.
Edited by mark69sheer on Thursday 11th October 13:22
Several years back now, I joined an design agency and thought I'd made the best move of my career. After about a month it become clear that the working environment was not what I thought it would be. Far too much back-stabbing, and when you are told by your boss that you need to work harder because some of the sales team were gealous of the car I drove (yes that is what I was told) it made me realise that the grass is not always greener.
Thankfully I was in a position to hand in my notice and walk away, now that really was the best move of my career.
Trouble is, I think Alonso is in a similar position, until last year he'd been an outsider looking in, and to most the McLaren team does look like a great place to be. However, we are all human and I guess it was not the right working environment for Alonso, but unlike myself, he can not just walk out due to contracts and the fact he couldn't simply jump back into another car/team.
He's has to stick it out all year, and I think in hindsight he could have probably handled some situations better, but at the same time, it could have been much worse.
Time will tell, but I think once he's back in the Renault next year, you'll see a different driver and if he does loose the title to Lewis, or Kimi, you'll also see a real fight on next year as he tries to prove to all those doubters out there that he really is a great driver. Afterall, you don't beat Ferrari and Michael by being in a crap car, or being a shite driver do you? It's not as if the Ferrari was a dog of a car in 05 or 06...
Good luck Alonso, not all Brits feel you should be shafted
Thankfully I was in a position to hand in my notice and walk away, now that really was the best move of my career.
Trouble is, I think Alonso is in a similar position, until last year he'd been an outsider looking in, and to most the McLaren team does look like a great place to be. However, we are all human and I guess it was not the right working environment for Alonso, but unlike myself, he can not just walk out due to contracts and the fact he couldn't simply jump back into another car/team.
He's has to stick it out all year, and I think in hindsight he could have probably handled some situations better, but at the same time, it could have been much worse.
Time will tell, but I think once he's back in the Renault next year, you'll see a different driver and if he does loose the title to Lewis, or Kimi, you'll also see a real fight on next year as he tries to prove to all those doubters out there that he really is a great driver. Afterall, you don't beat Ferrari and Michael by being in a crap car, or being a shite driver do you? It's not as if the Ferrari was a dog of a car in 05 or 06...
Good luck Alonso, not all Brits feel you should be shafted
mark69sheer said:
The authorities ignore thae fact that your employee was the source of the problem and hit your butchery business with a swinghing fine whilst protecting the purpotrator.
hang on a mo...forgetting your senario and getting back to the facts...
The source of the problem was not Alonso, it was an employee from Ferrari talking to another employee from McLaren - Alonso was never part of the original problem!
Get your facts right first.
Secondly...
Senario, you are running second in a world title and you are shown some info about weight distribtion, fuel loads, tyre pressures that a competitor is using that might just reap rewards if tried on your own car. As a highly competitive driver do you ignore that data?
Remember that F1 drivers and their mechanics are constantly trying all many of combinations at tests to eek out the last few 1000ths of a second to make the car go faster and perform better.
This is a sport that thrives on spying on each other, and the sooner some people realise it the better...
motormania said:
mark69sheer said:
The authorities ignore thae fact that your employee was the source of the problem and hit your butchery business with a swinghing fine whilst protecting the purpotrator.
hang on a mo...forgetting your senario and getting back to the facts...
The source of the problem was not Alonso, it was an employee from Ferrari talking to another employee from McLaren - Alonso was never part of the original problem!
Get your facts right first.
Secondly...
Senario, you are running second in a world title and you are shown some info about weight distribtion, fuel loads, tyre pressures that a competitor is using that might just reap rewards if tried on your own car. As a highly competitive driver do you ignore that data?
Remember that F1 drivers and their mechanics are constantly trying all many of combinations at tests to eek out the last few 1000ths of a second to make the car go faster and perform better.
This is a sport that thrives on spying on each other, and the sooner some people realise it the better...
As for Alonso yes he may not have been the original perpotrator and in my scenario one of the butchers other employees perhaps the one who should have driven the condemmed meat to the incinerator passed it instead to Alonso.
Would that make him any less guilty?
He still knew what he did was wrong otherwise he wouldn't have tried to use blackmail.
Lets not forget that same weekend he messed up Hamiltons last chance to improve his qualyifying by blocking the pitbox.
Is that someone looking for 'equality' in a team or someone who is trying to create an advantage?
Edited by mark69sheer on Thursday 11th October 13:46
Good question...mark69sheer said:
motormania said:
mark69sheer said:
The authorities ignore thae fact that your employee was the source of the problem and hit your butchery business with a swinghing fine whilst protecting the purpotrator.
hang on a mo...forgetting your senario and getting back to the facts...
The source of the problem was not Alonso, it was an employee from Ferrari talking to another employee from McLaren - Alonso was never part of the original problem!
Get your facts right first.
Secondly...
Senario, you are running second in a world title and you are shown some info about weight distribtion, fuel loads, tyre pressures that a competitor is using that might just reap rewards if tried on your own car. As a highly competitive driver do you ignore that data?
Remember that F1 drivers and their mechanics are constantly trying all many of combinations at tests to eek out the last few 1000ths of a second to make the car go faster and perform better.
This is a sport that thrives on spying on each other, and the sooner some people realise it the better...
As for Alonso yes he may not have been the original perpotrator and in my scenario one of the butchers other employees perhaps the one who should have driven the condemmed meat to the incinerator passed it instead to Alonso.
Would that make him any less guilty?
He still knew what he did was wrong otherwise he wouldn't have tried to use blackmail.
Lets not forget that same weekend he messed up Hamiltons last chance to improve his qualyifying by blocking the pitbox.
Is that someone looking for 'equality' in a team or someone who is trying to create an advantage?
Edited by mark69sheer on Thursday 11th October 13:46
mark69sheer said:
Lets not forget that same weekend he messed up Hamiltons last chance to improve his qualyifying by blocking the pitbox.
Once again you have not researched your facts...Alonso was not in the wrong during 'that pit incident'
Lewis had earlier ignored a direct command from Ron which then effected Alonso for the final part of Q3. It was not Alonso who held station, it was his team telling him to.
mark69sheer said:
Is that someone looking for 'equality' in a team or someone who is trying to create an advantage?
Although this statement is not incorrect, it is not a reason to attack Alonso.Do you think Michael Schumacher became 7 times world champion by allowing his team mates equal equipment?
toomuchbeer said:
jesusbuiltmycar said:
bottom line is that alonso has been outclassed by a rookie driving the same car as him...
Seconded.!This is F1 afterall. The paddock is not called the Piranha Club for no reason.
toomuchbeer said:
jesusbuiltmycar said:
bottom line is that alonso has been outclassed by a rookie driving the same car as him...
Seconded.!I'm confused
Why are so many people so angry about Alonso this year?
That was the question wasn't it?
So I have given my perception as a lifelong motorsport fan.
But I'm getting a harshly negative response. 'stick to the facts , do your research'.
Its only my opinions as to why people may not like him.
You wanted to know why people may not like him didn't you..
Why are so many people so angry about Alonso this year?
That was the question wasn't it?
So I have given my perception as a lifelong motorsport fan.
But I'm getting a harshly negative response. 'stick to the facts , do your research'.
Its only my opinions as to why people may not like him.
You wanted to know why people may not like him didn't you..
mark69sheer said:
I'm confused
Why are so many people so angry about Alonso this year?
That was the question wasn't it?
So I have given my perception as a lifelong motorsport fan.
But I'm getting a harshly negative response. 'stick to the facts , do your research'.
Its only my opinions as to why people may not like him.
You wanted to know why people may not like him didn't you..
Fair enough, I shouldn't have maybe been so harsh on you. However, opinions are fine when based on facts. Trouble is the UK media is flooding the pages with so much crap it's hard to know what is fact these days - and that's not just limited to F1...Why are so many people so angry about Alonso this year?
That was the question wasn't it?
So I have given my perception as a lifelong motorsport fan.
But I'm getting a harshly negative response. 'stick to the facts , do your research'.
Its only my opinions as to why people may not like him.
You wanted to know why people may not like him didn't you..
Bob Loblaw said:
I really think something must have gone on inside McLaren that we don't know about to make Alonso act the way he has been
Why? He acted in a similar way towards the end of his time at Renault last year; publicly accusing the team of not wanting him to win the championship as they knew he was leaving for McLaren.I've lost a lot of respect for Alonso this year. The OP is talking about him being blamed unfairly for talking to the FIA during the spying scandal, fair enough perhaps. But he was acting like a t
t way before that! FA is the best driver currently in F1. There is no doubt about this. He won two consecutive world championships without having the best car.
He took a long time to adapt to Brigestones and to the non understeering set up of the McLarens.
And he had a smart alec team mate who has been using all sorts of psychological warfare against him all season.
But he is still the best and class is permanent.
Lewis is just the rookie who got the best car. Without that he would be middle order. He drives it like a go cart so he is just a big accident waiting to happen. He uses every underhand trick on and off the circuit to win. I am sure he is the most disliked driver on the grid by the other drivers. I think Vettel will win far more over his career.
He took a long time to adapt to Brigestones and to the non understeering set up of the McLarens.
And he had a smart alec team mate who has been using all sorts of psychological warfare against him all season.
But he is still the best and class is permanent.
Lewis is just the rookie who got the best car. Without that he would be middle order. He drives it like a go cart so he is just a big accident waiting to happen. He uses every underhand trick on and off the circuit to win. I am sure he is the most disliked driver on the grid by the other drivers. I think Vettel will win far more over his career.
motormania said:
The FIA put him and the other drivers into a no win situation. Either talk or we shall kick you out of the drivers championship.
I think your answer's there. I can't think of anyone who has criticised Alonso for turning Queen's Evidence - if they did, I wouldn't take them seriously.However, that doesn't appear to be what happened. Ron Dennis' version of events has Alonso attempting blackmail first. It was Dennis who alerted the FIA to new evidence, including the sources.
That alone is damning. But follow that line further and you might reasonably deduce:
- He knowingly dealt in "dangerous" information - the transcripts show that he knew the original source of the information
- He failed to inform McLaren of any issues before even the first tribunal
- You might also consider it reasonable to assume that the drivers (along with all technical staff) had been asked for comment by the management as soon as the original charges were filed.
Alonso had several opportunities to come clean. He took none of them.
No honest person would criticise a whistleblower in their own business. But a blackmailer wouldn't set foot in the office again without a court order. That's the main reason people have been so critical. Whiny comments rather unbecoming of a reigning world champion simply fan the flames.
[quote=5.0%] FA is the best driver currently in F1. There is no doubt about this. He won two consecutive world championships without having the best car.
He took a long time to adapt to Brigestones and to the non understeering set up of the McLarens.
And he had a smart alec team mate who has been using all sorts of psychological warfare against him all season.
But he is still the best and class is permanent.
Lewis is just the rookie who got the best car. Without that he would be middle order. He drives it like a go cart so he is just a big accident waiting to happen. He uses every underhand trick on and off the circuit to win. I am sure he is the most disliked driver on the grid by the other drivers. I think Vettel will win far more over his career.
[/quote]
He took a long time to adapt to Brigestones and to the non understeering set up of the McLarens.
And he had a smart alec team mate who has been using all sorts of psychological warfare against him all season.
But he is still the best and class is permanent.
Lewis is just the rookie who got the best car. Without that he would be middle order. He drives it like a go cart so he is just a big accident waiting to happen. He uses every underhand trick on and off the circuit to win. I am sure he is the most disliked driver on the grid by the other drivers. I think Vettel will win far more over his career.
[/quote]
Edited by Baldylocks on Thursday 11th October 15:52
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