That's it, the FIA have officialy lost it now.
Discussion
A ten year freeze on engine development. Yeah that's a good idea.........
From Autosport.
Engine development frozen for ten years
By Matt Beer Wednesday, October 24th 2007, 13:03 GMT
The FIA has announced that the current restrictions on engine development will be tightened to a blanket freeze on all changes for ten years from 2008.
The decision was taken at a meeting of the World Motor Sport Council in Paris today.
"There will be a total freeze on engine development for a period of 10 years, starting from 2008," said an FIA statement.
"A change can be made after five years but only with the unanimous agreement of all stakeholders and following a further two-year notice period.
"Total freeze means that there will be no exceptions for development of certain parts of the engine, as is the case under the current regulations."
The extension to the engine freeze comes just days after the manufacturers involved in Formula One submitted a proposed engine rules package for 2010 to 2013 that was intended to help reduce costs and promote more environmentally-friendly technology.
The original engine development freeze was introduced for the start of the 2007 season and was expected to remain in place only until a more radical overhaul of the engine regulations was carried out.
From Autosport.
Engine development frozen for ten years
By Matt Beer Wednesday, October 24th 2007, 13:03 GMT
The FIA has announced that the current restrictions on engine development will be tightened to a blanket freeze on all changes for ten years from 2008.
The decision was taken at a meeting of the World Motor Sport Council in Paris today.
"There will be a total freeze on engine development for a period of 10 years, starting from 2008," said an FIA statement.
"A change can be made after five years but only with the unanimous agreement of all stakeholders and following a further two-year notice period.
"Total freeze means that there will be no exceptions for development of certain parts of the engine, as is the case under the current regulations."
The extension to the engine freeze comes just days after the manufacturers involved in Formula One submitted a proposed engine rules package for 2010 to 2013 that was intended to help reduce costs and promote more environmentally-friendly technology.
The original engine development freeze was introduced for the start of the 2007 season and was expected to remain in place only until a more radical overhaul of the engine regulations was carried out.
So what's to stop a new (or former) engine manufacturer designing and developing a new more powerful engine, someone like Cosworth or VW. Then partnering up with a current team and having a clear advantage over the other teams who are stuck with limited engine development and will not be able to respond?
Perhaps one scenario is that current engine manufacturers will be dropped in favour of new, big money will change hands to get the best engines and costs will go up.
Perhaps one scenario is that current engine manufacturers will be dropped in favour of new, big money will change hands to get the best engines and costs will go up.
Yep thats what I can't understand, surely an engine freeze for that long effectively means no new engine manufacturers can come in during that time, because Im damn sure that in 7 or 8 years time Mercedes (or whoever) would be capable of building a substantially better engine within the current regulations than they can at the present time, so a new manufacturer coming in could do the same and wipe the floor with the current "2007" vintage engines.
Also on the engine supply front
Autosport said:
The FIA also confirmed that Ferrari would be permitted to continue supplying both Spyker and Toro Rosso with engines for the next two seasons.
In the original 2008 regulations manufacturers had been restricted to just one customer team, but Ferrari requested to be allowed to power both outfits.
Someone might say that they only did that because they were asked and since they were already supplying 2 other teams they let them continue. A cynic however might suggest a rule change in Ferrari's favour (6 lots of engine data back to Maranello per race).In the original 2008 regulations manufacturers had been restricted to just one customer team, but Ferrari requested to be allowed to power both outfits.
But with weight already restricted, power and torque now restricted for 10 years, aero getting more restrictive.....
How will any new development exist? "to make the whole sport greener" is the suggestion but this won't happen if nothing is developed?
I'm confused still perhaps there is something better to do on a sunday afternoon....
How will any new development exist? "to make the whole sport greener" is the suggestion but this won't happen if nothing is developed?
I'm confused still perhaps there is something better to do on a sunday afternoon....
So let's see....the FIA was keen to open up F1 to more teams and to control the costs....yet what might be seen as an opportunity for Cosworth to re-enter the fray and supply cheap engines to customer teams will be thwarted by the fact that the teams and FOM cannot agree on a new Concorde Agreement....which consigns the likes of Prodrive to the boondocks for 2008 at least....just as well the FIA had the foresight to limit new entrants to just one for 2008...they must have seen this coming......
Not what I would want to see really but I would suggest that a 3 year freeze on engine development might well help out on the budget side without getting too restrictive. There would still be plenty or room to play with with the ancillaries and other bits.
What might work is if they were to have a 5 year freeze unless your new engine is powered by an alternative energy source based on less than 50% petrochemicals. That could prove interesting…
What might work is if they were to have a 5 year freeze unless your new engine is powered by an alternative energy source based on less than 50% petrochemicals. That could prove interesting…
Goodbye F1...
hello A1GP
Sounds crazy, well imagine where F1 will be in 10 years time when all over forms of motorsport have developed???
...and all this crap that some like to throw in to the discussions about how F1 technology filters down to road cars, in 10 years time, road cars will be more technically advanced than F1 cars - now that is the real JOKE
MAX your a FECKING IDIOT
Every team in the pitlane are FECKING idoits to say yes to this ruling
Come on BBC, get the rights to show A1GP live on the box and let's see how long F1 sticks to this crazy rule...
F1 the pinnacle of motorsport - FECKING JOKE!!!
hello A1GP
Sounds crazy, well imagine where F1 will be in 10 years time when all over forms of motorsport have developed???
...and all this crap that some like to throw in to the discussions about how F1 technology filters down to road cars, in 10 years time, road cars will be more technically advanced than F1 cars - now that is the real JOKE
MAX your a FECKING IDIOT
Every team in the pitlane are FECKING idoits to say yes to this ruling
Come on BBC, get the rights to show A1GP live on the box and let's see how long F1 sticks to this crazy rule...
F1 the pinnacle of motorsport - FECKING JOKE!!!
johnnywb said:
Right, time to launch the PH GP then lads and lasses?
A quick search in my desk drawer and i've got £2.37 for the kitty. I reckon we use the F1 rules and regs from the 80's as a start point, that was when it was good to watch.
Anyone else keen?!
Circuits that would jump at the chance of hosting a GP (some might need a little upgrading A quick search in my desk drawer and i've got £2.37 for the kitty. I reckon we use the F1 rules and regs from the 80's as a start point, that was when it was good to watch.
Anyone else keen?!
). Not currently contracted to Bernievision.Adelaide - Australia
Jerez - Spain
Imola - San Marino/Italy
Kyalami - South Africa
Jacarepagua - Brazil
Zolder - Belgium
A1 Ring - Austria
Brands Hatch - UK
Watkins Glen - USA
St Jovite (Mont Temblent) - Canada
Zandvort - Holland
Suzuka - Japan
Le Mans (Bugatti circuit) - France
Shah Alam - Malaysia
Ok we get the circuits, lets sign up some TV and then talk to the F1 teams
There's a simple solution, just make it a rule that any team has the RIGHT to buy race-spec engines from any other team for the price it costs them to develop their own. So, for example, if you want a Ferrari engine in your Williams, you can, for the price it would have cost to produce a lower performance BMW one. Level playing field, better racing.
Hang on! How will this allow new teams to enter F1?
Hey, while we're at it, let's go BACK 20 years and have a technology freeze there, or even 40 years back. That'd be quite interesting.
Hang on! How will this allow new teams to enter F1?
Hey, while we're at it, let's go BACK 20 years and have a technology freeze there, or even 40 years back. That'd be quite interesting.
Edited by mikee boy on Wednesday 24th October 16:06
johnnywb said:
I reckon we use the F1 rules and regs from the 80's as a start point,
Narr to the ‘80’s rule book. Keep it simple. Here is a box. It is 2 meters tall, 2 meters wide and 2.5 meters long. If you car fits in it you’re in subject to you being able to provide a minimum of 5 cars. 2 of which will be available for purchase by a.n. other team to run at a maximum cost of £50m per car including full parts and tec knowledge support in running the car for the year. One car will be subjected to full crash testing where it must pass certain standards based solely on incident protection.
Other than that I can’t see any other rules that you would need, although you might perhaps dictate the maximum size of the fuel tank.
Plain crazy. This will do only harm to the sport. Whilst the designers have any freedom at all, there's always the hope that Toyota, or Honda, will stumble on a good engine design that'll help them up the grid. Moreso BMW, who have made great bounding strides of progress and it would not otherwise be difficult to see them challenging the top two in future.
As it now seems to be, after 2008 this will not happen. Perhaps Ferrari have decided that they and the FIA can 'manage' McLaren as a main rival, and they'd rather not have anyone else in the mix, or let Mercedes have the opportunity to extract more from their current homologation.
I look forward to seeing the FIA justify not penalising Ferrari for "inconsequential amendments to certain engine components not intended to increase performance or reliability".
Edited to add that there must be glaring loopholes surrounding this as regards new teams. For example, Prodrive enter in 2009 say, sporting an Ilmor engine. Or, as mentioned previously - Williams secure a 2010 engine deal with Lexus and rocket up the grid.
What utter
s.
As it now seems to be, after 2008 this will not happen. Perhaps Ferrari have decided that they and the FIA can 'manage' McLaren as a main rival, and they'd rather not have anyone else in the mix, or let Mercedes have the opportunity to extract more from their current homologation.
I look forward to seeing the FIA justify not penalising Ferrari for "inconsequential amendments to certain engine components not intended to increase performance or reliability".
Edited to add that there must be glaring loopholes surrounding this as regards new teams. For example, Prodrive enter in 2009 say, sporting an Ilmor engine. Or, as mentioned previously - Williams secure a 2010 engine deal with Lexus and rocket up the grid.
What utter
s.Edited by Stuismyname on Wednesday 24th October 16:16
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