530d failed first MOT on handbrake efficiency

[danny tattersall]

Hi,

has anybody else suffered from inadequate handbrake performance on the BMW E60? The car is still under warranty and the main stealer alluded to the fact that it is not uncommon for the integral handbrake shoes to disintegrate resulting in poor handbrake performance.

Whilst I would normally accept that brake components are consumable items, I am going to be pretty annoyed if they do not repair the car under warranty. With this type of brake set up the handbrake shoes should not wear out because all the braking force on the rear wheels is provided by the discs and the shoes are solely for there for the handbrake. As for the possibility of the shoes disintegrating, this is indicative of poor quality or defective components.

Although I have not stripped down the rear brake assemblies (I was reluctant to due to the warranty concerns) I do not think that it is an 'adjustment' problem either.

I would be interested in hearing other people's opinions on this before taking the matter further.

Thanks in advance,

Danny Tattersall.

[Vixpy1]

Its a modern BMW handbrake, therefore its shit.

[Welshbeef]

danny tattersall said:

Hi,

has anybody else suffered from inadequate handbrake performance on the BMW E60? The car is still under warranty and the main stealer alluded to the fact that it is not uncommon for the integral handbrake shoes to disintegrate resulting in poor handbrake performance.

Whilst I would normally accept that brake components are consumable items, I am going to be pretty annoyed if they do not repair the car under warranty. With this type of brake set up the handbrake shoes should not wear out because all the braking force on the rear wheels is provided by the discs and the shoes are solely for there for the handbrake. As for the possibility of the shoes disintegrating, this is indicative of poor quality or defective components.

Although I have not stripped down the rear brake assemblies (I was reluctant to due to the warranty concerns) I do not think that it is an 'adjustment' problem either.

I would be interested in hearing other people's opinions on this before taking the matter further.

Thanks in advance,

Danny Tattersall.

Ah I remember this set up on my old Cavalier. It was discs and brake pads all round but the handbrake was seperate and there was a small rear drum with the rear discs wealded to this drum. The car had 60k on it when I changed the hand brake shoes - yes they had not worn out but due to lack of proper use they had gone hard and thier effieiency was terrible. Following replacing them I tended to every now & then slow the car coming up to lights with the handbrake on a couple of notches.

I think its a terrible design and unnecessary additional items.


While the current Fiat coupe discs all round has the handbrake attached to the rear caliper therefore the pads are being used properly all the time so when they are worn out they get changed.


Note the Cavalier had the shoes changed when it was 7 years old zand had never faile an MOT and at 7 years old was on its original set of shoes!

[noneedtolift]

Common fault I am afraid. Should be fixed under warranty.

[Welshbeef]

noneedtolift said:

Common fault I am afraid. Should be fixed under warranty.

But the car is 3 years old so out of warrenty!

[noneedtolift]

Danny states that it is still under warranty?

[Dino D]

Vixpy1 said:

Its a modern BMW handbrake, therefore its shit.

So say the man with an old 5 series whilst waiting patiently for the e60 to drop in price so he can say the same thing in 10 years time.

[8Tech]

I'm afraid that the design of the handbrake is particularly poor and you would probably need to reface the shoes and drum faces with some abrasive paper to increase the friction co-efficient again to hold the car. Other issues are whether you have an automatic gearbox and like me, rely on Park to hold the car rather than use the handbrake. This can cause seizure or at last resistance in the cable itself.

HOWEVER

If your car has a full service history, as it probably has being so new and with the warranty, I would be questioning the adequecy or standard of servicing because this SHOULD be done on a service.

Good luck,

8Tech.

[tuffer]

My 330D was terrible until I had it adjusted at the first service.

[danny tattersall]

Thanks to everybody for the replies.

I think that the idea behind the design is that having a seperate drum/shoes for the handrake means that it is less susceptible to cooling down and losing friction (effectively meaning that the brake should hold better when parked).

My car is a 530d sport with manual gearbox and I deliberately had the MOT test carried out just before the warrantly expired so it should hopefully be covered. The dealer phoned me yesterday and advised that the car also needs a new gearbox mounting. I had reported that there was some slack in the drivetrain and expected it to be a worn flexible coupling but that wasn't the case. It would appear that our German cousins have got out of the habit of over engineering things.

Thanks,

Danny.

[Welshbeef]

danny tattersall said:

Thanks to everybody for the replies.

I think that the idea behind the design is that having a seperate drum/shoes for the handrake means that it is less susceptible to cooling down and losing friction (effectively meaning that the brake should hold better when parked).

My car is a 530d sport with manual gearbox and I deliberately had the MOT test carried out just before the warrantly expired so it should hopefully be covered. The dealer phoned me yesterday and advised that the car also needs a new gearbox mounting. I had reported that there was some slack in the drivetrain and expected it to be a worn flexible coupling but that wasn't the case. It would appear that our German cousins have got out of the habit of over engineering things.

Thanks,

Danny.

Kia Ceed anyone 7 year bumper to bumper Warrenty seems very tempting now.

[M3Kevin]

Sounds like somebodys not been doing the servicing right to me the rear discs should be removed so the hand brake shoes are cleaned and adjusted these have got manual adjustment I see this so many times on dealer service Trouble is the mechanics are on bonus schemes and push the work has quick as possible THIS HAPPENS BELEAVE ME!

Edited by M3Kevin on Tuesday 20th November 13:22

[Welshbeef]

M3Kevin said:

Sounds like somebodys not been doing the servicing right to me the rear discs should be removed so the hand brake shoes are cleaned and adjusted these have got manual adjustment I see this so many times on dealer service

Yes all brake shoes have manual adjustment but they are also fully auto adjusting.

However I agree every year the drums should come off disc cleaned with a wire brush pads checked (maybe use of a bit of sand paper on them).

This is the drawback from having seperate handbrake shoes and frear footbrake pads.... a very old idea thats unnecessary.

As for cooling well rear brakes only take about 20-30% of the braking power & unless you drive your car like a race car then your not going to be tempering your discs on the main road and therefore your pads will not "stick"/create a hot spot on the disc.

[[TW]Fox]

Surely the car has BMW MOT insurance which covers it against any MOT failure excluding tyres?

Mine did, but it was just my luck that it passed with flying colours

[M3Kevin]

Only the footbrake is auto adjusting Handbrake shoes are manual adjustment!

[Welshbeef]

M3Kevin said:

Only the footbrake is auto adjusting Handbrake shoes are manual adjustment!

Oh its quite a few years now since Ive changed the rear handbrake shoes (about 8 odd) so I cannot remember 100% for sure, but if thats what you saw in the BMW may not mean that every other car has the same mechaism other may be self adjusting.

[phelix]

M3Kevin said:

Only the footbrake is auto adjusting Handbrake shoes are manual adjustment!

Agreed - it's a screwdriver through the wheel bolt hole when lined up just right to adjust the handbrake mech. But usually it's not adjustment that's the problem but lots of corrosion of the braking surface of the drum. This is because the mech never really gets used as a brake in motion but just as one surface jammed against another with very little movement to clean off the normal daily corrosion. Look at your brake disc surfaces after a day in the rain and imagine that over the course of a couple of years without any real use.

I think BMW recommends perdiodically using the handbrake to bring the car to a complete stop when safe to do so as a way to keep the brake working reasonably well.

[Welshbeef]

phelix said:

M3Kevin said:

Only the footbrake is auto adjusting Handbrake shoes are manual adjustment!

Agreed - it's a screwdriver through the wheel bolt hole when lined up just right to adjust the handbrake mech. But usually it's not adjustment that's the problem but lots of corrosion of the braking surface of the drum. This is because the mech never really gets used as a brake in motion but just as one surface jammed against another with very little movement to clean off the normal daily corrosion. Look at your brake disc surfaces after a day in the rain and imagine that over the course of a couple of years without any real use.

I think BMW recommends perdiodically using the handbrake to bring the car to a complete stop when safe to do so as a way to keep the brake working reasonably well.

Ah yes I remember that hole now (found it after I had stripped it however it needed a good overhaul though).

I cannot undersand why any car maker would now opt for this method of a parking brake its just more unnecessary weight & also more to go wrong KISS (keep it simple stupid).

[Vixpy1]

Have you tried tightening up the cable at the handbrake end?

[M3Kevin]

Yes I agree with the WEISHBEEF above Anyway take the discs off and have a look!