Accountant extracting urine?
Discussion
I have two Ltd companies. One is my day-to-day business, the other a clever name that I set up but which has never traded and has no bank account. My accountant has just sent me a £400 bill for filing the annual return of the dormant company. The accountant knows that the company has never traded, has no bank account and no assets, and I can't imagine that an annual return for a dormant company can be more than ticking a box or two and signing a page. When I challnged him he said that the bill covers all the annual returns for the three years inwhich the company has been in existence. Am I being a miserable tight wad git and should I just pay this myself, or is he being a shark who deserves to be told to cram his unwelcome bill up an appropriate orifice?
I do my own online returns 9and it really is a two minute job once you are logged in as you just confirm things) and my accountant does the CT stuff. I don't recall him increasing or decreasing the bill when he has/hasn't done that for me.
Perhaps what you have there is a standing charge for any limited company on their books but if they are insistent it is right and won't budge it would be unacceptable to me and I would look elsewhere.
Perhaps what you have there is a standing charge for any limited company on their books but if they are insistent it is right and won't budge it would be unacceptable to me and I would look elsewhere.
Mon Ami Mate said:
My accountant has just sent me a £400 bill for filing the annual return of the dormant company.
I think about thirty quid is the going rate for an accountantto do the yearly accounts on a dormant
company, so 400 quid sounds a bit OTT.
Depending on how much he's charging you for the other company,
maybe you might be better elsewhere ?
Mon Ami Mate said:
Andrew[MG] said:
Mon Ami Mate said:
Andrew[MG] said:
You have just been robbed!!
No I haven't, I haven't paid him yet!Why a partner would be doing an annual return is beyond me though?
I'd suggest.
Secretary £25ph charge out rate 5 mins typing letter requesting signature
Partner signing letter £200 5 mins
Semi-senior complete AR online 10 mins £55
So £2 + £16 + £9
+ Fee (either £30 or £15 depending whether done online or not)
I'd suggest around £60 + vat to be the VERY most an accountant would charge to do such an item, based on 5 minute units on their time sheet. This is based on my experience working in a top 40 firm.
As a note
I personally just recharge the AR fee (£15) to the client, and make a loss. I charge a flat fee of £100+vat for dormants and the ancillary matters required for filing.
Hi,
You don't need to do anything further than ask for a time breakdown in the costs involved in submitting the annual return.
As cited on here, people have a rate per hour, and a simple compliance issue like this should take 15mins to check there are no changes to shares, addresses or the company sec with yourself and any other parties.
Wether it be ICAEW or ACCA accountants there is still this basic requirement to give some support for your billing.
If they still offer no explanation then go to the instutute and complain to their special line they have set up for this. I wouldn't pay the bill until such time as you get what you need, hopefully a large credit note!
Let us know of your progress.
You don't need to do anything further than ask for a time breakdown in the costs involved in submitting the annual return.
As cited on here, people have a rate per hour, and a simple compliance issue like this should take 15mins to check there are no changes to shares, addresses or the company sec with yourself and any other parties.
Wether it be ICAEW or ACCA accountants there is still this basic requirement to give some support for your billing.
If they still offer no explanation then go to the instutute and complain to their special line they have set up for this. I wouldn't pay the bill until such time as you get what you need, hopefully a large credit note!
Let us know of your progress.
Hi
I've been away.
I charge between £80 and £100 for dormant company accounts.
So, if he is charging (say) £130 or so for each year's acccounts he's not WAY out of line (but is a bit pricey). I would also ask why he has taken three years to get around to raising invoices.
Dormant company accounts still need to comply with Company Law format and disclosure requirements so they are not completely devoid of some professional input.
However, you can dispense with an accountant's service completely - and indeed the need to prepare dormant company accounts - if you simply complete Companies House Form "DCA" instead of formal accounts.
I've been away.
I charge between £80 and £100 for dormant company accounts.
So, if he is charging (say) £130 or so for each year's acccounts he's not WAY out of line (but is a bit pricey). I would also ask why he has taken three years to get around to raising invoices.
Dormant company accounts still need to comply with Company Law format and disclosure requirements so they are not completely devoid of some professional input.
However, you can dispense with an accountant's service completely - and indeed the need to prepare dormant company accounts - if you simply complete Companies House Form "DCA" instead of formal accounts.
is there some confusion here as to whether the work relates to a set of Dormant accounts and/or a Companies House Annual Return form detailing directors, shareholders etc?
The first would be reasonable for a couple of years and the latter not!
The first would be reasonable for a couple of years and the latter not!
Edited by smartie on Monday 14th April 16:19
Could be. Mon Ami Mate talks about "Annual Return" in his original post. The Annual Return is just a form confirming the Company Secretarial details and does not contain any accounts information.
Has MAM read the details of his accountant's bill correctly or has the bill just been worded sloppilly?
Has MAM read the details of his accountant's bill correctly or has the bill just been worded sloppilly?
Eric Mc said:
Could be. Mon Ami Mate talks about "Annual Return" in his original post. The Annual Return is just a form confirming the Company Secretarial details and does not contain any accounts information.
Has MAM read the details of his accountant's bill correctly or has the bill just been worded sloppilly?
It's worded sloppily, but I can confirm that the bill is for the annual return and that the company has never traded, so does not have any accounts information. One extra detail - I sacked this accountant and moved all my business to another chap, who happens to be a PHer. I took this bill to be the final straw and told the company concerned that I would not be paying it. They are now pursuing me for the amount and I'm trying to gauge whether it really is as unreasonable as I think, and how right I am to stand my ground.Has MAM read the details of his accountant's bill correctly or has the bill just been worded sloppilly?
Dormant accounts still need to be completed for non-trading companies. Even if there were no transactions for the year there would have been a Balance Sheet showing at least the Issued Share Capital. This Balance Sheet, together with additional statutory information is what needs to be submitted to Companies House over and above the Companies Houise Annual Return (Form 363).
Is he claiming that he completed and submitted BOTH the dormant company accounts for each of the three years AS WELL AS the Form 363s?
If he is, I would suggest that £400 is not THAT much out of the ball park.
If it IS only for submitting the 363s, then it is way too much.
Also, the fact that he did not bill you until after you had informed him that you were changing to a new accountant is a bit much. If he was doing annual work for you, he should have billed for that work annually - not three years after the event.
Is he claiming that he completed and submitted BOTH the dormant company accounts for each of the three years AS WELL AS the Form 363s?
If he is, I would suggest that £400 is not THAT much out of the ball park.
If it IS only for submitting the 363s, then it is way too much.
Also, the fact that he did not bill you until after you had informed him that you were changing to a new accountant is a bit much. If he was doing annual work for you, he should have billed for that work annually - not three years after the event.
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