Traversing single cariageway lane separators. OK or not?

[m4rk]

Hi,

I used travel on a single carriage road where I often got flashed for overtaking slower drivers. It seemed the road hoggers were angry that I overtook them by crossing the central white hashed lane separator even though these were bounded by a single broken white lines. The road in question was long, straight, with good visiblity, out of town with few hazzards. (Bedford to Northampton M way junction main A road... 10 or more years ago) I know it is illegal to cross the lane separators when they are bounded by a solid white lines but is it legal to cross lane separators when they are bounded by a broken white lines?

[vonhosen]

Not in & of itself, it depends on circumstances of the overtake.

[mmm-five]

They're just there as an advisory central reservation - use them as you will (except at junctions of course) and wave to the numpties holding everyone else up.

[m4rk]

mmm-five said:

They're just there as an advisory central reservation - use them as you will (except at junctions of course) and wave to the numpties holding everyone else up.

Thnaks that's what I thought. A nice safe overtake and I get angrily flashed at Sadly it seemed that many, many drivers were unaware of the difference when they have broken white lines

[vonhosen]

m4rk said:

mmm-five said:

They're just there as an advisory central reservation - use them as you will (except at junctions of course) and wave to the numpties holding everyone else up.

Thnaks that's what I thought. A nice safe overtake and I get angrily flashed at Sadly it seemed that many, many drivers were unaware of the difference when they have broken white lines

How do you know their indication of distaste was because of your actions relative to the road markings ?

[Sam.F]

I love those long, straight stretches with the phantom island down the middle: I always found the A57 at Crystal Peaks near Sheffield a good place for dispensing with queues behind tractors etc. as it seemed only 5-10% of the traffic along there knew you could overtake. Mind, the A413 in Bucks the other day was almost entirely populated by people who were perfectly happy to overtake and be overtaken over hatched areas, which was a nice surprise as I find that most places down south these days you get no end of aggro from anyone you overtake.

[m4rk]

vonhosen said:

How do you know their indication of distaste was because of your actions relative to the road markings ?

Well I didn't stop those particular drivers to ask but I have raised the subject down the pub on a few occasions and sadly found that many (most) do not realise that you can cross them legally, that includes my girlfirend

Also, it happended many times when, I as I have said, I safely, courtesly overtook (if that's possible these days) without any problems but still they flash me. I only got flashed when on roads with the previously mentioned markings. Couldn't find another reasonable explanation. Like I said long and straight, no need for any hasty, poor manouvers.

Edited by m4rk on Tuesday 8th July 20:28

[esselte]

Sam.F said:

I love those long, straight stretches with the phantom island down the middle: I always found the A57 at Crystal Peaks near Sheffield a good place for dispensing with queues behind tractors etc. as it seemed only 5-10% of the traffic along there knew you could overtake. .

Do you mean the bit that goes to Woodhouse..?

[Sam.F]

Yes, the huge long straight stretch between the 2 roundabouts that I'm talking about is near Woodhouse outside Sheffield. It used to be just 2 wide lanes, but some time ago now they hatched off the middle (presumably because there were too many accidents with people overtaking in the face of oncoming traffic).

[alphadog]

vonhosen said:

m4rk said:

mmm-five said:

They're just there as an advisory central reservation - use them as you will (except at junctions of course) and wave to the numpties holding everyone else up.

Thnaks that's what I thought. A nice safe overtake and I get angrily flashed at Sadly it seemed that many, many drivers were unaware of the difference when they have broken white lines

How do you know their indication of distaste was because of your actions relative to the road markings ?

You get the odd mad flasher when conducting a perfectly decent overtake over such road markings (or even on normal single broken lines for that matter) because some people think that broken lines and hatchings means 'no overtaking'. I've had it a few times over the years, maintaining a decent distance behind the overtakee, waiting for a good safe gap, overtaking and gently moving back in a decent distance in front of the overtakee. Not to be confused with the single 'you can come back in mate' flash that you also sometimes see.

Mind you perhaps they were complimenting me on a well executed overtake and I misinterpreted their signal.

Edited by alphadog on Tuesday 8th July 22:04

[7db]

[quote=m4rkI know it is illegal to cross the lane separators when they are bounded by a solid white lines...
[/quote]

You'd be amazed at the real answer...

[matt0677]

I use a road similar to this almost daily, the A43 between Northampton and Kettering. It prompted me to check the highway code, rule 130 here:

130

Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.

* if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so
* if the area is marked with chevrons and bordered by solid white lines you MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Hig...

[agent006]

matt0677 said:

unless it is necessary

Here begins the debate on what is a necessary maneuvre.

[Vaux]

7db said:

m4rk said:

I know it is illegal to cross the lane separators when they are bounded by a solid white lines...

You'd be amazed at the real answer...

HC 165 says it's a MUST NOT to overtake if you would have to enter an area designed to divide traffic, if it is surrounded by a solid white line.

The old HC 109 talked about not entering except in an emergency.

Is your point that if you're not overtaking, you can cross the line?

[mmm-five]

Solid = MUST NOT
Not solid = SHOULD NOT (i.e. okay when necessary)

The Highway Code is full of these MUSTs and SHOULDs, and some people believe they all mean it's the LAW.

[vonhosen]

Vaux said:

7db said:

m4rk said:

I know it is illegal to cross the lane separators when they are bounded by a solid white lines...

You'd be amazed at the real answer...

HC 165 says it's a MUST NOT to overtake if you would have to enter an area designed to divide traffic, if it is surrounded by a solid white line.

The old HC 109 talked about not entering except in an emergency.

Is your point that if you're not overtaking, you can cross the line?

What matters is what the TSRGD says.

[m4rk]

Vaux said:

7db said:

m4rk said:

I know it is illegal to cross the lane separators when they are bounded by a solid white lines...

You'd be amazed at the real answer...

HC 165 says it's a MUST NOT to overtake if you would have to enter an area designed to divide traffic, if it is surrounded by a solid white line.

The old HC 109 talked about not entering except in an emergency.

Is your point that if you're not overtaking, you can cross the line?

I thought it was OK to cross the broken white lines to overtake but as so many drivers beleive it is not I came here to see what the consensus of the knowledgeable people here think. If its not so clear, even to ypu guys, then its no wonder there's some misunderstanding in the general public. I am quite willing to accept I was wrong but in that case I would be saddened that on so many good overtaking roads I would be prevented from making a safe overatke because of lane separators.

[vonhosen]

m4rk said:

Vaux said:

7db said:

m4rk said:

I know it is illegal to cross the lane separators when they are bounded by a solid white lines...

You'd be amazed at the real answer...

HC 165 says it's a MUST NOT to overtake if you would have to enter an area designed to divide traffic, if it is surrounded by a solid white line.

The old HC 109 talked about not entering except in an emergency.

Is your point that if you're not overtaking, you can cross the line?

I thought it was OK to cross the broken white lines to overtake but as so many drivers beleive it is not I came here to see what the consensus of the knowledgeable people here think. If its not so clear, even to ypu guys, then its no wonder there's some misunderstanding in the general public. I am quite willing to accept I was wrong but in that case I would be saddened that on so many good overtaking roads I would be prevented from making a safe overatke because of lane separators.

They are talking about a solid line, not a broken line that you are talking about.
You can overtake where there is a diagonal area bordered by a broken white line, provided you can see that it is safe to do so.

The highway code only gives brief generic advice. If you want to know what the law says you've got to dig out the legislation.

Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 9th July 10:03

[supermono]

agent006 said:

matt0677 said:

unless it is necessary

Here begins the debate on what is a necessary maneuvre.

It sounded necessary in his case to avoid running up the back of the slower car he wanted to be in front of.

SM

[m4rk]

matt0677 said:

highway code, rule 130 here:

* if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so
* if the area is marked with chevrons and bordered by solid white lines you MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Hig...

Can overtaking be counted as necessary then or not? I can see why there is so much rage about when the rules are not clear to all and open to debate.

Edited by m4rk on Wednesday 9th July 10:11