New Boy looking for a kit car.... but which one ? ? ?
Discussion
Hi all,
I've been using Pistonheads for a while, but mainly for the classifieds section, so now I thought I'd try the forums.
I've been after a kit car for years, and never really got round to seriously putting away some money for one. Well, the old man revealed to me last night that despite his plans to "track day" his 355, he got there and couldn't do it. There's too much at stake with humongous insurance excesses... couple that with a heavy right foot and you could be looking at an expensive night at Brands...
So, long story short, he's in the market for a track day car (kit car) which we can use together (imagine my excitement!)
So I'm after some advice in regard to what to get.
My first instinct was to look at the Tigers. They are comparitively cheap and seem to be fairly available. We are both quite keen on the idea of a 2.0L Zetec with Alpha ignition and Webbers as we both have a bit of experience with the engine (having built a dyno set up to tinker with a Zetec that was once destined for my car). Being an oldie, he has plenty of experience with setting up carbs too (which is a bit of a mystery to me to be honest)
I think for now, we would avoid the bike engined cars as they are quite extreme. I definitely want something quick, but sub 4 seconds might be a bit of a jump for me (i currently have a boring slow car).
the old mans view is "if we like it and get into it, we can upgrade to something more outrageous"...
So... What is everyones opinion on the Tigers (and possibly the MK's), roughly what kind of performance could we expect for a 2.0l Zetec kickng out circa 165 BHP and finally, would we be losing out by not spending the extra money on something more prestigeous like a Caterham or a Westfield ?
Any and all advice will be welcomed as I am desperate to take advantage of the old chaps enthusiasm : )
Cheers,
Dave.
I've been using Pistonheads for a while, but mainly for the classifieds section, so now I thought I'd try the forums.
I've been after a kit car for years, and never really got round to seriously putting away some money for one. Well, the old man revealed to me last night that despite his plans to "track day" his 355, he got there and couldn't do it. There's too much at stake with humongous insurance excesses... couple that with a heavy right foot and you could be looking at an expensive night at Brands...
So, long story short, he's in the market for a track day car (kit car) which we can use together (imagine my excitement!)
So I'm after some advice in regard to what to get.
My first instinct was to look at the Tigers. They are comparitively cheap and seem to be fairly available. We are both quite keen on the idea of a 2.0L Zetec with Alpha ignition and Webbers as we both have a bit of experience with the engine (having built a dyno set up to tinker with a Zetec that was once destined for my car). Being an oldie, he has plenty of experience with setting up carbs too (which is a bit of a mystery to me to be honest)
I think for now, we would avoid the bike engined cars as they are quite extreme. I definitely want something quick, but sub 4 seconds might be a bit of a jump for me (i currently have a boring slow car).
the old mans view is "if we like it and get into it, we can upgrade to something more outrageous"...
So... What is everyones opinion on the Tigers (and possibly the MK's), roughly what kind of performance could we expect for a 2.0l Zetec kickng out circa 165 BHP and finally, would we be losing out by not spending the extra money on something more prestigeous like a Caterham or a Westfield ?
Any and all advice will be welcomed as I am desperate to take advantage of the old chaps enthusiasm : )
Cheers,
Dave.
My advice would be get yourself to a few shows or organised meetings, for example I spent all day yesterday at Bruntingthorpe with the MK guys who where giving both passenger rides and drives in two demonstrators.
If I was to advise on what to buy it would be a biased opinion as would almost everyone else's as people do tend to plug the one they got, nothing wrong with that at all btw but think its best to blag as many rides as possible, talk to as many owners as possible then make your own decision.
As for type of engine that debate to would/will open up a can of worms, I'm very unashamedly biased and would not currently go any route other than BEC but people will be along shortly to tell you just how bad BECs are but its all down to personal opinion and preference.
If I was to advise on what to buy it would be a biased opinion as would almost everyone else's as people do tend to plug the one they got, nothing wrong with that at all btw but think its best to blag as many rides as possible, talk to as many owners as possible then make your own decision.
As for type of engine that debate to would/will open up a can of worms, I'm very unashamedly biased and would not currently go any route other than BEC but people will be along shortly to tell you just how bad BECs are but its all down to personal opinion and preference.
Hi Jon,
thanks for the quick reply.
I assume BEC's refers to Bike Engined Cars ? I'm new to the lingo ! ha ha..
That makes sense. I can understand that not many people are going to say... "get this car, its the best out there" if they have something different : )
In the few moments between me posting and you responding, I have made an appointment to go and see a Tiger SuperCat next weekend all the way in North Wales ! Better be good.
I'm planning on going to the Tiger head quarters this week for a look around and possibly to try and get some second hand buying advice from the guys there.
I'm so excited its unreal !
thanks for the quick reply.
I assume BEC's refers to Bike Engined Cars ? I'm new to the lingo ! ha ha..
That makes sense. I can understand that not many people are going to say... "get this car, its the best out there" if they have something different : )
In the few moments between me posting and you responding, I have made an appointment to go and see a Tiger SuperCat next weekend all the way in North Wales ! Better be good.
I'm planning on going to the Tiger head quarters this week for a look around and possibly to try and get some second hand buying advice from the guys there.
I'm so excited its unreal !
Have a look on locostbuilders.co.uk as well - plenty of advice on there on all the non caterfield sevens and they will be happy to look at/discuss the pros and cons of something you have found - thats how I got mine.
I've just bought an Indy R1 and its absolutely, astonishingly rapid. However they are a bit extreme and for me it was an upgrade from a very modded MINI and primarily bought for trackdays. There are some very nice MKs, MAC#1s and MNRs about for good money with Zetecs, so have a good look at them all first. Being a kit, the quality of the build varies immensely, so set yourself a max and get the best built seven you can afford.
I've just bought an Indy R1 and its absolutely, astonishingly rapid. However they are a bit extreme and for me it was an upgrade from a very modded MINI and primarily bought for trackdays. There are some very nice MKs, MAC#1s and MNRs about for good money with Zetecs, so have a good look at them all first. Being a kit, the quality of the build varies immensely, so set yourself a max and get the best built seven you can afford.
If you just want a pure trackday car, and just drive to and from the track, then I wouldnt dismiss the BECs. Do not be scared of going fast, they stop and corner just as well. On track, there are far more upsides than downsides. but if you want a general allround car which performs on track, than my first of call would be a hot Elise. Another option is a K-series Caterham with a full cage if you have the budget, an excellent choice.
I think we defintely prefer the idea of something which we can use on the weekends around home as well as on the track. I also think there's a soft spot in both of us for a kit car over something like an Elise (which I must admit, hadn't occured to me as an alternative).
I have actually convinced my Dad (perhaps somewhat foolishly) not to spend loads of money yet. The first instinct was, well what the best we can get... But I think we would be foolish to invest a load of money in somethng we don't even know if we'll take seriously yet or even whether we'll have the time to make it worth while...
In the mean time, we have made enquiries and a time to go and see two Tiger Supercats in the North West. Both with Zetecs, one of them is said to be up around 190BHP mark which should make it fairly lively : )
Keep you posted.
I have actually convinced my Dad (perhaps somewhat foolishly) not to spend loads of money yet. The first instinct was, well what the best we can get... But I think we would be foolish to invest a load of money in somethng we don't even know if we'll take seriously yet or even whether we'll have the time to make it worth while...
In the mean time, we have made enquiries and a time to go and see two Tiger Supercats in the North West. Both with Zetecs, one of them is said to be up around 190BHP mark which should make it fairly lively : )
Keep you posted.
Jon Ison said:
My advice would be get yourself to a few shows or organised meetings, for example I spent all day yesterday at Bruntingthorpe with the MK guys who where giving both passenger rides and drives in two demonstrators.
If I was to advise on what to buy it would be a biased opinion as would almost everyone else's as people do tend to plug the one they got, nothing wrong with that at all btw but think its best to blag as many rides as possible, talk to as many owners as possible then make your own decision.
If I was to advise on what to buy it would be a biased opinion as would almost everyone else's as people do tend to plug the one they got, nothing wrong with that at all btw but think its best to blag as many rides as possible, talk to as many owners as possible then make your own decision.
This is most definately the best advice to anyone looking at joining the Kit Car fraternity.
You could set your heart on a particular marque by seeing photos and magazine articles.
Until you drive it (or at least ride in it) you won't get the whole picture - same with any standard production car really.
Right, we're getting amongst it now : )
I'm heading off to view a Tiger SuperCat this evening. Its about two hours away, but most definitely worth the trip as I've never even sat in kit car of any type and don't even know if I'll fit ! Alas, I am a little bit of a fat bastid, which might make things a bit snug ! ha ha... still ,if ever I needed motivation to get to the gym !
I'm heading off to view a Tiger SuperCat this evening. Its about two hours away, but most definitely worth the trip as I've never even sat in kit car of any type and don't even know if I'll fit ! Alas, I am a little bit of a fat bastid, which might make things a bit snug ! ha ha... still ,if ever I needed motivation to get to the gym !
gilbertdave said:
Right, we're getting amongst it now : )
I'm heading off to view a Tiger SuperCat this evening. Its about two hours away, but most definitely worth the trip as I've never even sat in kit car of any type and don't even know if I'll fit ! Alas, I am a little bit of a fat bastid, which might make things a bit snug ! ha ha... still ,if ever I needed motivation to get to the gym !
ahhhhhhhh, I spend hours thinking where I can save a bit of weight here and a bit there on the car, then look at my iccle (untruth) tummy n think why bother........I'm heading off to view a Tiger SuperCat this evening. Its about two hours away, but most definitely worth the trip as I've never even sat in kit car of any type and don't even know if I'll fit ! Alas, I am a little bit of a fat bastid, which might make things a bit snug ! ha ha... still ,if ever I needed motivation to get to the gym !
why are you so focused on a Tiger? i mean, a westfield is a cheaper option.
i also would recommend to buy something with an independant rear-suspension.
also a sylva (phoenix, striker) or fisher fury would be a good option, as they have a really good suspension setup (even with a live-axle).
i also would recommend to buy something with an independant rear-suspension.
also a sylva (phoenix, striker) or fisher fury would be a good option, as they have a really good suspension setup (even with a live-axle).
How do you come to that conclusion?
We (my old man and I) collected our new car on Saturday
We went to North Wales (from Essex) decided we liked it and bought it there and then. We took it turns to cruise home.. I drove to the M1 (about 120miles ish) and then swapped. All was going swimmingly until the old man decided to try the "upper rev range"... it went bang ! Doh!
I think there was a minor blockage in the radiator which was limiting flow. It was coping with us just cruing at 60-70 on the motorway, but as soon as it was hammered it got hot and went pop.
I'm pretty sure the head gasket has gone as when you turn the engine over it spurts water out of the header tank. We ran a check for exhaust gas in the header tank which was actually a bit inconclusive, but I can't think what else what cause it to go like that. Fortunately, the old man didn't get burnt, as the water really did go everywhere quite spectacularly !
So, next steps, head off, clock it, skim it (as a precaution if the clocks don't show any problems), new gasket set from Burton power and flush out the cooling system... then try again.
Its killing me at the moment, because we have it stored at work so I can look at it, touch it, stroke it.... but not drive it !
Will keep the forum posted of progress and most likely ask plenty of questions !
To be honest, I know it sounds stupid, but it was pretty funny.
My old man and me work together and we often end up travelling up and down the current on killer dead lines and with stupid amounts of stress, but Saturday was one of those things we just had to laugh at. Also, it was really cool to see the amount of people that take an interest in car thats a bit different from the norm. I've broken down in my boring old focus and no one gives a damn, but we had people coming over to chat, take pictures, to sit in the car and stuff. It was pretty cool.
Plus, for the few minutes (!) it was being pushed it looked absolutely superb. I was following in an Audi S4 (which is no slouch) and I was struggling to keep up on the bendy bits. I was close enough to get covered in brown water when it all went bang though ! ha ha.
Still, we've already made arrangements for the head to be skimmed, got an adaptor for our compression tester in the post, got a gasket set on its way and now we've got a perfect chance to mess about with the seats to get them in the right place.
I would think that by the middle of next week we should be back in action.
My old man and me work together and we often end up travelling up and down the current on killer dead lines and with stupid amounts of stress, but Saturday was one of those things we just had to laugh at. Also, it was really cool to see the amount of people that take an interest in car thats a bit different from the norm. I've broken down in my boring old focus and no one gives a damn, but we had people coming over to chat, take pictures, to sit in the car and stuff. It was pretty cool.
Plus, for the few minutes (!) it was being pushed it looked absolutely superb. I was following in an Audi S4 (which is no slouch) and I was struggling to keep up on the bendy bits. I was close enough to get covered in brown water when it all went bang though ! ha ha.
Still, we've already made arrangements for the head to be skimmed, got an adaptor for our compression tester in the post, got a gasket set on its way and now we've got a perfect chance to mess about with the seats to get them in the right place.
I would think that by the middle of next week we should be back in action.
Bad luck - it's not good when your new toy goes bang 
It's the acceleration and the bendy bits that show you are not in a 'normal' car, and where the smiles kick in.
Mind you I got some strange looks driving down the A1 on Sunday afternoon - in a downpoor with no hood or doors on. Other people on the road must have thought I was nuts, but it was a refreshingly cool shower on a very hot day
Ian
It's the acceleration and the bendy bits that show you are not in a 'normal' car, and where the smiles kick in.
Mind you I got some strange looks driving down the A1 on Sunday afternoon - in a downpoor with no hood or doors on. Other people on the road must have thought I was nuts, but it was a refreshingly cool shower on a very hot day
Ian
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