how can you get limits raised?
Discussion
Seems like it only takes 2 people to complain that limits are too high, for some non-driver councillor type to rule that the speed should come down.
So how about the other way? if enough people complained, can we get speed limits increased?
BTW: the 85% percentile is a load of crap. Why? - easy, if ten cars are "trapped" behind one fossilised Micra driver doing 40mph, that makes 11 cars doing 40mph on the NSL road. This happens enough, and they drop the limit to 50 !! repeat process, 40, 30, until we need man with red flag!
C
So how about the other way? if enough people complained, can we get speed limits increased?
BTW: the 85% percentile is a load of crap. Why? - easy, if ten cars are "trapped" behind one fossilised Micra driver doing 40mph, that makes 11 cars doing 40mph on the NSL road. This happens enough, and they drop the limit to 50 !! repeat process, 40, 30, until we need man with red flag!
C
Carl,
The 85th percentile rule is based on a clear stretch of road, and the measurements take place over a period of time, it is not an arbitary time and place.
The following excerpts are from the ABD consultation papers.
Over the years an acceptable and understandable hierarchy of speed limits developed, formalised by Annex A to Circular Roads 1/93.
This basic hierarchy was subject to fine tuning. This tuning was achieved by assuming that the vast majority of motorists have a sense of social conscience and self-preservation and will adjust their speed to that suitable for the road. The 85th percentile speed of drivers was used to make a final decision as to the suitable speed limit. Hazards that present a danger at the posted limit were highlighted with warning signs. This system was nationally adopted, understandable by all, and resulted in some of the safest roads in the world.
This statement reflects the findings of many studies in the UK and around the world, which show that unrealistically low speed limits, far from reducing speeds, can actually have the reverse effect, as drivers treat them with the contempt they deserve. To back up its statement, the DoT recommends that speed limits should be set in relation to the 85th percentile speed of traffic, i.e. the speed at or below which 85% of traffic travels. If the 85th percentile figure is more than 7 mph or 20% (whichever is the greater) above the proposed speed limit, then a higher limit should be chosen or physical measures introduced to reduce speeds. A highway authority should be able to demonstrate. , therefore, that it has measured speeds on the road in question and taken the DoT's criteria into account.
Hope this makes a bit more sense of the rule.
Regards
Big Rumbly
Edited by big rumbly on Monday 21st January 15:59
Edited by big rumbly on Monday 21st January 16:01
The 85th percentile rule is based on a clear stretch of road, and the measurements take place over a period of time, it is not an arbitary time and place.
The following excerpts are from the ABD consultation papers.
Over the years an acceptable and understandable hierarchy of speed limits developed, formalised by Annex A to Circular Roads 1/93.
This basic hierarchy was subject to fine tuning. This tuning was achieved by assuming that the vast majority of motorists have a sense of social conscience and self-preservation and will adjust their speed to that suitable for the road. The 85th percentile speed of drivers was used to make a final decision as to the suitable speed limit. Hazards that present a danger at the posted limit were highlighted with warning signs. This system was nationally adopted, understandable by all, and resulted in some of the safest roads in the world.
This statement reflects the findings of many studies in the UK and around the world, which show that unrealistically low speed limits, far from reducing speeds, can actually have the reverse effect, as drivers treat them with the contempt they deserve. To back up its statement, the DoT recommends that speed limits should be set in relation to the 85th percentile speed of traffic, i.e. the speed at or below which 85% of traffic travels. If the 85th percentile figure is more than 7 mph or 20% (whichever is the greater) above the proposed speed limit, then a higher limit should be chosen or physical measures introduced to reduce speeds. A highway authority should be able to demonstrate. , therefore, that it has measured speeds on the road in question and taken the DoT's criteria into account.
Hope this makes a bit more sense of the rule.
Regards
Big Rumbly
Edited by big rumbly on Monday 21st January 15:59
Edited by big rumbly on Monday 21st January 16:01
cheers mate !! that HAS helped a lot !
How do they deal with "Micra man" though?! I'd prefer a bazooka, but I guess they ignore this sort of thing?
Also, when you say a "clear stretch of road", does this equate to Micra, 2 second gap, Idiot 1, 2 second gap, idiot 2, etc?
So really we should always TRY to drive to the limit, when SAFE, or they will lower the limit?
Carl
PS, whatyou reckon on trying to get 'em raised?
How do they deal with "Micra man" though?! I'd prefer a bazooka, but I guess they ignore this sort of thing?
Also, when you say a "clear stretch of road", does this equate to Micra, 2 second gap, Idiot 1, 2 second gap, idiot 2, etc?
So really we should always TRY to drive to the limit, when SAFE, or they will lower the limit?
Carl
PS, whatyou reckon on trying to get 'em raised?
quote:3 words:
PS, whatyou reckon on trying to get 'em raised?
Pushing - Water - Uphill
Seriously though, the ABD are campaigning for this type of thing.. the problem we'll have in orchestrating such a thing here is that you'd need a number of people living in the same area, writing to the same local council before we'd even make a dent - I think the best way to do this is through the ABD's regional co-ordinators..
There are candidate roads for this in every area though...
Carl, try www.abd.org.uk/
Search on "speed limits- How they are set and your right to object"
There's too much to post here.
As to raising the limits, same rules apply. The trick is to take note of the posted notices, when a speed reduction is proposed, and object on the grounds that the criteria has not been met. Details are in the above.
Regards
Big Rumbly
Search on "speed limits- How they are set and your right to object"
There's too much to post here.
As to raising the limits, same rules apply. The trick is to take note of the posted notices, when a speed reduction is proposed, and object on the grounds that the criteria has not been met. Details are in the above.
Regards
Big Rumbly
I am an ABD member, but I haven't spent as much time on their site as I do this one !!
However I don't recall seeing anything about raising limits, only how to stop them being lowered still futher? - I ought to investigate futher.
Bloody council has lowered the limit on a stretch of my favourite road. No problem if it is night time, and snowing - then 40mph seems quite ok. But in daylight, on a dry road.... 60 is way too low !!!!
Just to give you an idea of the sort of corner, hypothetically you could go round it at 104mph with the footpegs dragging on an R1. If one so desired.
C
However I don't recall seeing anything about raising limits, only how to stop them being lowered still futher? - I ought to investigate futher.
Bloody council has lowered the limit on a stretch of my favourite road. No problem if it is night time, and snowing - then 40mph seems quite ok. But in daylight, on a dry road.... 60 is way too low !!!!
Just to give you an idea of the sort of corner, hypothetically you could go round it at 104mph with the footpegs dragging on an R1. If one so desired.
C
quote:Here's their campaign to raise motorway limits.. www.abd.org.uk/motorwayspeedlimit.htm
I don't recall seeing anything about raising limits, only how to stop them being lowered still futher?
quote:yep - Same in basingstoke, 2 stretches of unpopulated straight road - A30 from M3-J7 towards Basingstoke between Hatch Warren and Brighton Hill - lowered one stretch to 50 and the other to 40 - happened about a week after I moved there so I missed the consultation period.. humbug...
Bloody council has lowered the limit on a stretch of my favourite road. No problem if it is night time, and snowing - then 40mph seems quite ok. But in daylight, on a dry road.... 60 is way too
oh.. THAT bit. Yeah, well m-way limits are the one limit that doesn't really matter all that much. You can get away with 85 if you are sensible, and on the M25 for example - you are lucky to do 70 !! 
I was referring to the gross stupidity of joining up 2 house hamlets with endless 30 or 40mph. Christ, 50mph is dire, but less is awful !!
C
I was referring to the gross stupidity of joining up 2 house hamlets with endless 30 or 40mph. Christ, 50mph is dire, but less is awful !!
C
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff