530d manual quicker than a 535d??

[tyrone1973]

I am interested in some advice - thinking of moving from an old model Impreza to something a bit more luxurious.
Current options are a quick diesel 5 series salon.
After reading lots of posts decided 535d was the way to go although I was unsure that the automatic would suit me.
Drove 530d manual and 535d within 10 minutes of each other and was suprisingly unimpressed by the 535d.
Poor pick up off the line and generally very detached with no obvious sensation of speed.
In comparison the 530d manual, same year 2006, was much better through the gears with a good free reving engine.
What am I missing? - from my test drive I would rate the 530d the drivers car of the two simply because of the transmission.
In real world speeds (less than 100mph) is there much difference in the two?
I also understand the 530d is much more fuel efficient.
Sorry for rambling - any input greatly appreciated.

[gizlaroc]

You sure the 530d manual hadn't been remapped?? Hundreds out there have and this puts them neck and neck.
The 535d really comes on song in S mode and remapped.

Do you need the extra size??

My 535d returned 25,9mpg over 44k miles and 18 months.
In comparison my 335i returned 25.6mpg over 13k miles.

Both were remapped, the 535d was fairly pacey, but the 335i was an absolute rocket and quicker then the M3 CSL it replaced. It would do 0-60mph in 4.5 seconds, a serious bit of kit.
You can pick up a manual which is even more economical for under £20k now, so don't write them off.

I used to get 34mpg on a run, and when I say on a run that is sat at 90mph.


I would guess the 530d manual would return 35mpg average.

[pgilc1]

tyrone1973 said:

I am interested in some advice - thinking of moving from an old model Impreza to something a bit more luxurious.
Current options are a quick diesel 5 series salon.
After reading lots of posts decided 535d was the way to go although I was unsure that the automatic would suit me.
Drove 530d manual and 535d within 10 minutes of each other and was suprisingly unimpressed by the 535d.
Poor pick up off the line and generally very detached with no obvious sensation of speed.
In comparison the 530d manual, same year 2006, was much better through the gears with a good free reving engine.
What am I missing? - from my test drive I would rate the 530d the drivers car of the two simply because of the transmission.
In real world speeds (less than 100mph) is there much difference in the two?
I also understand the 530d is much more fuel efficient.
Sorry for rambling - any input greatly appreciated.

Its not necessarily that the 535d is that much quicker than the 530d, so much as how it goes about it. There is serious grunt there that you may not realise until you look at the speedo. Also, i suspect jumping in to a manual first off may best suit your driving style if you jumped out of a manual impreza.

Yes, at real world speeds is where the 535d thrives. The grunt it has at 70mph is amazing. Also, i'd recommend you use it in 'sport' mode for maximum thrust.

They are both the same engine with the 535d having a small turbo to overcome lag, so i'd be surprised if the 530d is more free revving?

I've owned an 07 LCI (facelifted) 535d and now have an 05 535d. Amazing cars. I'd recommend an extended test drive to get the full effect. They grow on you.

Oh, and remap it and you've got a real world 0-60 time of 5.5s.

[Cyclone1]

Sport mode just adds a few extra revs above D mode so doesn't really make that much difference, it does prevent kickdown more often than not which sometimes is a hinderence. In outright speed terms it makes no difference, Sport mode is no faster than D mode (drive).


If it's about driveability then ideally you need a car with gears for that more intense driving experience, so the 530d with a manual box will be a superior drive to the auto 535d, neither will be the focused tool you'd get with an M3/RS4 etc, but for their size they aren't bad.

Jules.

[JeffC]

had both cars standard and had both remapped, 530d manual was quicker through the gears but 535d quicker top end after 100mph, BUT 530d was soooooooooooooooooo much better on fuel, to give you an idea I had a 530d for 18months sold it and bought a 535d and sold it within 3 weeks

[gizlaroc]

Agreed on consumption, you really need an LCI 535d to get reasonable consumption, the new gearbox makes such a differece.

[Loach]

I've driven the 530d and 535d, and my sentiments echo with the OP's. The 530d felt the sportier car, particularly with BM's lovely manual 'box, and is the one I'd go for. The new 525d isn't bad at all btw. I drove a pre and post updated car recently and couldn't believe the difference. That said, in my opinion, out of the box the 530d is the best all-rounder.

Pity you guys missed out on the V8 diesels. I ran a 740d and then a 745d for a couple of years. The 740d in particular, was bleedin' awesome. The 745d was marginally faster, but not so that you'd really notice, and wasn't as economical in use as the car it replaced. If I'd known then what I know now, I'd have kept the 740d.

[535dman]

I own a pre LCI 535d and am getting an average of 32mpg with A and B road driving. ON the motorway I get up to 39.2 MPG and have a pic to prove this.

I took the pic as two of my mates have 530d's and dont get more than 26-30mpg on A and B roads and a max of 34 mpg on the motorway...

Both regret not buying a 535d over the 530d...

Go figure

Ps - editied to add that all three cars above are automatics

Edited by 535dman on Thursday 7th August 13:20

[JeffC]

535dman said:

I own a pre LCI 535d and am getting an average of 32mpg with A and B road driving. ON the motorway I get up to 39.2 MPG and have a pic to prove this.

I took the pic as two of my mates have 530d's and dont get more than 26-30mpg on A and B roads and a max of 34 mpg on the motorway...

Both regret not buying a 535d over the 530d...

Go figure

Ps - editied to add that all three cars above are automatics

Edited by 535dman on Thursday 7th August 13:20

yep had an auto 530d and that was ste on fuel too. now got 335d and thats as bad round the doors but good on run..

from memory my 530d manual would do 48 on a good run and 32-35 round the doors and 35 mpg towing trailer and car..

535d round town was 24-28 and 38 on a steady run.

[pgilc1]

535dman said:

I own a pre LCI 535d and am getting an average of 32mpg with A and B road driving. ON the motorway I get up to 39.2 MPG and have a pic to prove this.

I took the pic as two of my mates have 530d's and dont get more than 26-30mpg on A and B roads and a max of 34 mpg on the motorway...

Both regret not buying a 535d over the 530d...

Go figure

Ps - editied to add that all three cars above are automatics

Edited by 535dman on Thursday 7th August 13:20

+1

I have a pre LCI 535d and get 33mpg on average no probs. My previous LCI 535d averaged 37mpg.

Edited by pgilc1 on Thursday 7th August 19:17

[pgilc1]

Cyclone1 said:

Sport mode just adds a few extra revs above D mode so doesn't really make that much difference, it does prevent kickdown more often than not which sometimes is a hinderence. In outright speed terms it makes no difference, Sport mode is no faster than D mode (drive).


If it's about driveability then ideally you need a car with gears for that more intense driving experience, so the 530d with a manual box will be a superior drive to the auto 535d, neither will be the focused tool you'd get with an M3/RS4 etc, but for their size they aren't bad.

Jules.

Sport mode = higher revs = more likely to be on the power band. Plus it holds on to gears longer, therefore further up the power band when it switches gear etc.

Sport mode may not necessarily be quicker off the line, but say, cross country through the gears it would be.

Edited by pgilc1 on Thursday 7th August 19:18

[sniff petrol]

What's LCI?

[Cyclone1]

pgilc1 said:

Cyclone1 said:

Sport mode just adds a few extra revs above D mode so doesn't really make that much difference, it does prevent kickdown more often than not which sometimes is a hinderence. In outright speed terms it makes no difference, Sport mode is no faster than D mode (drive).


If it's about driveability then ideally you need a car with gears for that more intense driving experience, so the 530d with a manual box will be a superior drive to the auto 535d, neither will be the focused tool you'd get with an M3/RS4 etc, but for their size they aren't bad.

Jules.

Sport mode = higher revs = more likely to be on the power band. Plus it holds on to gears longer, therefore further up the power band when it switches gear etc.

Sport mode may not necessarily be quicker off the line, but say, cross country through the gears it would be.

Edited by pgilc1 on Thursday 7th August 19:18

Holding the gears in DS mode then yes it would be an advantage, but this would only really be when in say pursuit mode on a track (you won't get many D's doing track days), or on country type roads. With my foot flat down on the pedal I have not noticed it hold revs longer in Sport mode. At Fighting Torque last year the car ran its fastest times in normal drive mode. For me when driving in DS or Sport mode the car tends to hold the gear you are in when you put your foot down, it may be deceptive but sometimes I would rather it kickdown to get better acceleration when needed, and it does this in normal drive mode all of the time. That's why I do 95% of my driving in D mode.

Jules.

[jamoor]

BMW 535d has the ZF 6 HP 26 Box in it,

ZF rate this box as maximum 600nm input, the 535d already chucks out 560-580nm.


The tranmission will fail prematurely when the "expert remappers" map the hell out of yout car and burn out your box.

Something to bear in mind.

tyrone1973 said:

generally very detached with no obvious sensation of speed.

What exactly do you expect from this car? The whole idea is that you can drive fast without problems.

[Cyclone1]

jamoor said:

BMW 535d has the ZF 6 HP 26 Box in it,

ZF rate this box as maximum 600nm input, the 535d already chucks out 560-580nm.


The tranmission will fail prematurely when the "expert remappers" map the hell out of yout car and burn out your box.

Something to bear in mind.

tyrone1973 said:

generally very detached with no obvious sensation of speed.

What exactly do you expect from this car? The whole idea is that you can drive fast without problems.

You've gone a bit OT here. Has the OP stated he would remap either the 535d or 530d?

Did you get your damaged gearbox sorted or is it still ongoing?

[dxb335d]

Stock for stock the 535d has it licked. Even from a standing start. The one you drove must be a bad one.

Mapped 530d will live with a stock 535d for sure. mapped 535d is gone.

[jamoor]

Cyclone1 said:

jamoor said:

BMW 535d has the ZF 6 HP 26 Box in it,

ZF rate this box as maximum 600nm input, the 535d already chucks out 560-580nm.


The tranmission will fail prematurely when the "expert remappers" map the hell out of yout car and burn out your box.

Something to bear in mind.

tyrone1973 said:

generally very detached with no obvious sensation of speed.

What exactly do you expect from this car? The whole idea is that you can drive fast without problems.

You've gone a bit OT here. Has the OP stated he would remap either the 535d or 530d?

Did you get your damaged gearbox sorted or is it still ongoing?

It was sorted before I started the thread.

[pgilc1]

sniff petrol said:

What's LCI?

Life Cycle Impulse = facelift model (built from March 07 and easiest identified as it has the joystick style gearbox)

[pgilc1]

Cyclone1 said:

pgilc1 said:

Cyclone1 said:

Sport mode just adds a few extra revs above D mode so doesn't really make that much difference, it does prevent kickdown more often than not which sometimes is a hinderence. In outright speed terms it makes no difference, Sport mode is no faster than D mode (drive).


If it's about driveability then ideally you need a car with gears for that more intense driving experience, so the 530d with a manual box will be a superior drive to the auto 535d, neither will be the focused tool you'd get with an M3/RS4 etc, but for their size they aren't bad.

Jules.

Sport mode = higher revs = more likely to be on the power band. Plus it holds on to gears longer, therefore further up the power band when it switches gear etc.

Sport mode may not necessarily be quicker off the line, but say, cross country through the gears it would be.

Edited by pgilc1 on Thursday 7th August 19:18

Holding the gears in DS mode then yes it would be an advantage, but this would only really be when in say pursuit mode on a track (you won't get many D's doing track days), or on country type roads. With my foot flat down on the pedal I have not noticed it hold revs longer in Sport mode. At Fighting Torque last year the car ran its fastest times in normal drive mode. For me when driving in DS or Sport mode the car tends to hold the gear you are in when you put your foot down, it may be deceptive but sometimes I would rather it kickdown to get better acceleration when needed, and it does this in normal drive mode all of the time. That's why I do 95% of my driving in D mode.

Jules.

Erm, so exactly what i said then? As most people dont buy a 535d for standing starts or quarter mile drag runs, sport mode is best for say, 'cross country' sprints, which the 535d happens to be surprisingly good at.

If you 'really must' have a manual then you have no choice but to buy a 530d, however make sure you buy it significantly cheaper than an auto version as the vast majority of people want an auto on a 530d.

Personally, i dont understand why people want to be bothered with all this gear changing nonsense in a big exec like a 5 series.

Edited by pgilc1 on Friday 8th August 22:26

Edited by pgilc1 on Friday 8th August 22:31

[tyrone1973]

Thanks for all the opinions above.
I don't think it was the 535d "a bad one", on balance I just did'nt like the automatic gearbox.
I am sure one with a manual would be excellent but the auto box just does not feel right for me.
My comment regarding the lack of sensation of speed I stand by. It felt like very linear just like sitting in a large diesel train - some may see that as a compliment personally I like a bit of surge.
Good advice about the large engined petrol models but I am after an '06 model for just over 20k and one of these would be well over budget.
Also as I drive about 15k yearly a touch expensive to fuel.