Aston Residuals debate..... your thoughts?
Discussion
I know we are in the middle of the credit crunch & both DB9 & AMV8 have facelifts...the combination badly affecting earlier model values, but I for one am also concerned that Aston may continue to oversupply product, dramatically affecting residuals even more!
I understand they are a business & need to maximise profits, but IMHO short term gain from continued oversupply in the UK will badly hurt the brands reputation & excellent image (note Hammonds comments on Top Gear!!) to the detriment of future profits!
This happened to Porsche with the 996 series & they realised the mistake & actually restricted volumes slightly for the 997 series, appreciating they still sold boatloads 997 residuals are better than Astons, particularly the specialist models!
Personally I hope Aston can see the potential long term damage created by oversupply & will start to better balance supply keeping it short of demand in the UK, recreating decent waiting lists, hence improving used values & brand reputation. Surely Russia, China & the other vast new markets can take up factory capacity currently thrust into the UK
Your thoughts folks
I understand they are a business & need to maximise profits, but IMHO short term gain from continued oversupply in the UK will badly hurt the brands reputation & excellent image (note Hammonds comments on Top Gear!!) to the detriment of future profits!
This happened to Porsche with the 996 series & they realised the mistake & actually restricted volumes slightly for the 997 series, appreciating they still sold boatloads 997 residuals are better than Astons, particularly the specialist models!
Personally I hope Aston can see the potential long term damage created by oversupply & will start to better balance supply keeping it short of demand in the UK, recreating decent waiting lists, hence improving used values & brand reputation. Surely Russia, China & the other vast new markets can take up factory capacity currently thrust into the UK
Your thoughts folks
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz 
PLEASE don't let this get like the BMW Forum - all they talk about is Residuals/Depreciation. You've bought the car now mate so you can't do a thing about it. Just enjoy it. I will say that I think anyone buying a V8 new now needs to be in it for the long haul - say three years. Year one depreciation (assuming you give a flying fig) will look horrid.
To think that Aston will do anything other than go for the economies of larger production numbers is wishful thinking IMHO and I'll only be going for limited production models like the V12 engined version in the future as I'm sure these will hold their values better - rather as the GT3 has against cooking 997 versions.
On the plus side I think your beautiful Roadster will be an easy three year 'keeper' as I can't see it looking dated or anything other than beautiful in another three years and you aren't buying it to get the latest absolute cutting edge in performance as you did with the GT3 which is already close to being replaced by a faster more powerful version. Fortunately there's so much more than that to the Aston experience.
Now stop sounding like a banker and ENJOY.
PLEASE don't let this get like the BMW Forum - all they talk about is Residuals/Depreciation. You've bought the car now mate so you can't do a thing about it. Just enjoy it. I will say that I think anyone buying a V8 new now needs to be in it for the long haul - say three years. Year one depreciation (assuming you give a flying fig) will look horrid.To think that Aston will do anything other than go for the economies of larger production numbers is wishful thinking IMHO and I'll only be going for limited production models like the V12 engined version in the future as I'm sure these will hold their values better - rather as the GT3 has against cooking 997 versions.
On the plus side I think your beautiful Roadster will be an easy three year 'keeper' as I can't see it looking dated or anything other than beautiful in another three years and you aren't buying it to get the latest absolute cutting edge in performance as you did with the GT3 which is already close to being replaced by a faster more powerful version. Fortunately there's so much more than that to the Aston experience.
Now stop sounding like a banker and ENJOY.
I agree with Pugsey....forget the cash and live in blissful ignorance. Then by the time you have to worry about it you'll be to excited about the next exotic that you p/x it for to care anyway.
Even if a V8V loses 10k per annum, what else could you legally spend this money on that gives so much enjoyment and attention ;-)
Even if a V8V loses 10k per annum, what else could you legally spend this money on that gives so much enjoyment and attention ;-)
"Even if a V8V loses 10k per annum, what else could you legally spend this money on that gives so much enjoyment and attention ;-) "
what do you mean...Im sure most of us would be more than happy 'only' losing £10k p.a.
Autocar have got one year old ones in this week that have lost £25K already !
I bought mine used, just over a year old and saved about £17K on list, now 18 months later I can knock another £25K from that now its nearing 3 years old.
So its pretty crap in real money terms, as we all know ....but in regular car terms, well its not *that* bad - for a car to hold 50% of list price after 3 years and avg miles is very good indeed isnt it? I thought that other than the odd exception, most mass production cars were more like 40-45% of value after 3 years so if the Vantage is just average, we should be seeing lots of 3 yr old £40K examples for sale soon
In a years time I will be more than happy if I can chop my 3-4 yr old car in against a 1yr old 4.7 and it 'only' costs me £15K to change
what do you mean...Im sure most of us would be more than happy 'only' losing £10k p.a.
Autocar have got one year old ones in this week that have lost £25K already !
I bought mine used, just over a year old and saved about £17K on list, now 18 months later I can knock another £25K from that now its nearing 3 years old.
So its pretty crap in real money terms, as we all know ....but in regular car terms, well its not *that* bad - for a car to hold 50% of list price after 3 years and avg miles is very good indeed isnt it? I thought that other than the odd exception, most mass production cars were more like 40-45% of value after 3 years so if the Vantage is just average, we should be seeing lots of 3 yr old £40K examples for sale soon
In a years time I will be more than happy if I can chop my 3-4 yr old car in against a 1yr old 4.7 and it 'only' costs me £15K to change
cardigankid said:
Surely what they can't do is keep producing cars at the same rate if sales have dropped? How will that increase their profits short or long term?
you wouldnt think so ...not unless demand is still high from other markets ? ...but sure, I cant see the point of building cars if theres no-one walking into the dealers to buy them !It honestly makes me smile when people say they aren't bothered about residuals 
it's rather like not asking for a discount because you are worried that the dealership thinks you "haven't made it" & can't afford the product minimising the loss on your current weakness is simply a shrewd move however much cash you have!
While all cars loose money & we car nuts clearly don't buy on residuals alone it is only sensible to consider best value so the hard earned stays with us as much as possible, whilst still enjoying our chosen marque!
Clever prestige car supply is a decent chunk short of demand, Ferrari are actually masters of this in the short term (up to 3 years old anyway or until the next new model!!! ), it allows used values to stay stable & the brand appeal strong, retaining best customer loyalty & best margins in the long term! Of course much depends if Astons new owners are well financed enough & in it for the long term, only time will tell.
I love the Aston brand & Dr Bez as a leader, I also think the dealers are brilliant, but oversupply will kill the golden goose if Aston aren't shrewd!
it's rather like not asking for a discount because you are worried that the dealership thinks you "haven't made it" & can't afford the product minimising the loss on your current weakness is simply a shrewd move however much cash you have!While all cars loose money & we car nuts clearly don't buy on residuals alone it is only sensible to consider best value so the hard earned stays with us as much as possible, whilst still enjoying our chosen marque!
Clever prestige car supply is a decent chunk short of demand, Ferrari are actually masters of this in the short term (up to 3 years old anyway or until the next new model!!!
), it allows used values to stay stable & the brand appeal strong, retaining best customer loyalty & best margins in the long term! Of course much depends if Astons new owners are well financed enough & in it for the long term, only time will tell.I love the Aston brand & Dr Bez as a leader, I also think the dealers are brilliant, but oversupply will kill the golden goose if Aston aren't shrewd!
Edited by Grant3 on Thursday 28th August 22:30
Grant3 said:
It honestly makes me smile when people say they aren't bothered about residuals it's rather like not asking for a discount because you are worried that the dealership thinks you "haven't made it" & can't afford the product minimising the loss on your current weakness is simply a shrewd move however much cash you have!
While all cars loose money & we car nuts clearly don't buy on residuals alone it is only sensible to consider best value so the hard earned stays with us as much as possible, whilst still enjoying our chosen marque!
Clever prestige car supply is a decent chunk short of demand, Ferrari are actually masters of this in the short term (up to 3 years old anyway or until the next new model!!! ), it allows used values to stay stable & the brand appeal strong, retaining best customer loyalty & best margins in the long term! Of course much depends if Astons new owners are well financed enough & in it for the long term, only time will tell.
I love the Aston brand & Dr Bez as a leader, I also think the dealers are brilliant, but oversupply will kill the golden goose if Aston aren't shrewd!
I'm not sure anyone is actually saying that they're not bothered about depreciation. Rather that having got the car there's now not much you can do about it so stop worrying and enjoy it for the reasons you bought it - one of which certainly SHOULDN'T of been as an investment! it's rather like not asking for a discount because you are worried that the dealership thinks you "haven't made it" & can't afford the product minimising the loss on your current weakness is simply a shrewd move however much cash you have!While all cars loose money & we car nuts clearly don't buy on residuals alone it is only sensible to consider best value so the hard earned stays with us as much as possible, whilst still enjoying our chosen marque!
Clever prestige car supply is a decent chunk short of demand, Ferrari are actually masters of this in the short term (up to 3 years old anyway or until the next new model!!!
), it allows used values to stay stable & the brand appeal strong, retaining best customer loyalty & best margins in the long term! Of course much depends if Astons new owners are well financed enough & in it for the long term, only time will tell.I love the Aston brand & Dr Bez as a leader, I also think the dealers are brilliant, but oversupply will kill the golden goose if Aston aren't shrewd!
Edited by Grant3 on Thursday 28th August 22:30
Look at it this way. That new suit you've just bought was pretty much valueless from a resale point of view the minute you walked out of the shop. As was the plasma screen, furniture etc etc etc. And the £1000s you spend on a two week holiday is all 'lost' the day you get back. However I'll bet you don't give any of those 'losses' a seconds thought and I seriously doubt you post about them on the internet yet they appear to be appalling 'value' compared with a car that you can easily resell and recoupe some of your original outlay.
Now stop being boring and tell us what you think of your lovely new toy.
Edited by Pugsey on Friday 29th August 09:12
Pugsey said:
Look at it this way. That new suit you've just bought was pretty much valueless from a resale point of view the minute you walked out of the shop. As was the plasma screen, furniture etc etc etc. And the £1000s you spend on a two week holiday is all 'lost' the day you get back. However I'll bet you don't give any of those 'losses' a seconds thought and I seriously doubt you post about them on the internet yet they appear to be appalling 'value' compared with a car that you can easily resell and recoupe some of your original outlay.
Spot on! Was thinking this myself last week (having just returned from a rather expensive holiday, which the whole family loved).
Pugsey said:
Look at it this way. That new suit you've just bought was pretty much valueless from a resale point of view the minute you walked out of the shop. As was the plasma screen, furniture etc etc etc. And the £1000s you spend on a two week holiday is all 'lost' the day you get back. However I'll bet you don't give any of those 'losses' a seconds thought and I seriously doubt you post about them on the internet yet they appear to be appalling 'value' compared with a car that you can easily resell and recoupe some of your original outlay.
But that cosy analogy falls down because all those examples of losses about which we should not bat an eyelid do not relate to articles which are regularly resold - they are all consumables which are used to the end by their purchasers. Houses and cars are pretty much the only items i can think of which have a significant resale market so like it or not any car purchase is to some extent an investment. We all want our investments to do well but in the case of our cars, we certainly cannot expect them to appreciate in value so we have to hope or plan for them to depreciate as little as possible. I know it's going to cost me dear to keep my car and I will lose big time on resale but that is a price I am willing to pay to enjoy the ride, oh yes.Grant3 said:
...Ferrari are actually masters of this in the short term ...
I have a feeling chinks will show in their armour soon...I agree with you that they need to be careful with supply, especially in this country.
But like Pugsey, I think worrying about it is pointless. When you buy the car you *know* what you're in for. If you don't, you probably shouldn't be buying expensive cars.
I'm off on holiday in a week. In the car. Screw it, if you're going to lose money anyway you might as well enjoy yourself in the process
PS Consumables or not, I agree with Pugs' analogy on the other fripperies we spunk money on with nary a thought.
Enjoying the car is a completely separate issue from discussing depreciation & future brand value.
You can love, treasure, enjoy & drive..... a car while still considering & ensuring best residuals on your chosen steed... taking up the point....any money saved can certainly pay for a very nice holiday or flat screen TV... .... neither of which cost north of £85-100k otherwise we may treat their purchase differently 
!!!
Whatever personal preference brand residuals do affect a brands sales success, as an example: yes there will always be those that have the money to invest in a new Vanquish without a worry for the £90k lost in 3 years, but the market is.... lets be honest limited! The same could be said for the Ferrari 456 which set the bar for future top end Ferrari GT flops in stark contrast to the F430, car buyers aren't silly!
What's wrong with thoroughly enjoying your car & wanting best residuals as part of the package, seems sense to me & sense for the manufacturer!
You can love, treasure, enjoy & drive.....
a car while still considering & ensuring best residuals on your chosen steed... taking up the point....any money saved can certainly pay for a very nice holiday or flat screen TV... .... neither of which cost north of £85-100k otherwise we may treat their purchase differently !!!Whatever personal preference brand residuals do affect a brands sales success, as an example: yes there will always be those that have the money to invest in a new Vanquish without a worry for the £90k lost in 3 years, but the market is.... lets be honest limited! The same could be said for the Ferrari 456 which set the bar for future top end Ferrari GT flops in stark contrast to the F430, car buyers aren't silly!
What's wrong with thoroughly enjoying your car & wanting best residuals as part of the package, seems sense to me & sense for the manufacturer!
Grinning said:
Pugsey said:
Look at it this way. That new suit you've just bought was pretty much valueless from a resale point of view the minute you walked out of the shop. As was the plasma screen, furniture etc etc etc. And the £1000s you spend on a two week holiday is all 'lost' the day you get back. However I'll bet you don't give any of those 'losses' a seconds thought and I seriously doubt you post about them on the internet yet they appear to be appalling 'value' compared with a car that you can easily resell and recoupe some of your original outlay.
But that cosy analogy falls down because all those examples of losses about which we should not bat an eyelid do not relate to articles which are regularly resold - they are all consumables which are used to the end by their purchasers. Houses and cars are pretty much the only items i can think of which have a significant resale market so like it or not any car purchase is to some extent an investment. We all want our investments to do well but in the case of our cars, we certainly cannot expect them to appreciate in value so we have to hope or plan for them to depreciate as little as possible. I know it's going to cost me dear to keep my car and I will lose big time on resale but that is a price I am willing to pay to enjoy the ride, oh yes.Good residuals come of good product. Both Aston and its customers should be ensuring the product comes first at all costs. Residual happiness will then happen as a natural matter of course.
btw, holidays etc. The point isn't what you spend on something, it's what you "lose" on something. Pugsey's point was that it's likely many of us will "waste" amounts possibly not dissimilar in order of magnitude to the car losses, and yet we don't worry about these in the same way (posting on the internet, avoiding them altogether for fear of a loss etc).
Cars like the Vantage still, IMO, perform better than the vast majority of marques in terms of %age depreciation. But the amounts are heftier owing to the bigger price tags. The days are pretty much over, IMO, of the safe bets.
Even Ferrari are going to get hit on this - Scud's are available for under list, 599s have started to drop increasingly quickly (despite being raved about), there are more 430s on the market than you can shake a stick and that styling travesty that is the California is about to descend on us in volumes never seen before by Ferrari (free handbag with every purchase).
Add to this the Astons, the Lambos, the Porsches, the Audis, the Mercs, the odd Alfa, Bentley, Maserati and possibly even BMW and Jag entering the fray, not to mention the very nearly new cars flooding the market and I honestly think they are all going to have a tough time over the next few years. Tough enough, perhaps, to see them change their philosophies...
But that's their problem. Do a monster deal when you buy it, then enjoy it properly and put all thoughts of depreciation to the very back of your mind.
btw, holidays etc. The point isn't what you spend on something, it's what you "lose" on something. Pugsey's point was that it's likely many of us will "waste" amounts possibly not dissimilar in order of magnitude to the car losses, and yet we don't worry about these in the same way (posting on the internet, avoiding them altogether for fear of a loss etc).
Cars like the Vantage still, IMO, perform better than the vast majority of marques in terms of %age depreciation. But the amounts are heftier owing to the bigger price tags. The days are pretty much over, IMO, of the safe bets.
Even Ferrari are going to get hit on this - Scud's are available for under list, 599s have started to drop increasingly quickly (despite being raved about), there are more 430s on the market than you can shake a stick and that styling travesty that is the California is about to descend on us in volumes never seen before by Ferrari (free handbag with every purchase).
Add to this the Astons, the Lambos, the Porsches, the Audis, the Mercs, the odd Alfa, Bentley, Maserati and possibly even BMW and Jag entering the fray, not to mention the very nearly new cars flooding the market and I honestly think they are all going to have a tough time over the next few years. Tough enough, perhaps, to see them change their philosophies...
But that's their problem. Do a monster deal when you buy it, then enjoy it properly and put all thoughts of depreciation to the very back of your mind.
Grant3 said:
Enjoying the car is a completely separate issue from discussing depreciation & future brand value.
You can love, treasure, enjoy & drive..... a car while still considering & ensuring best residuals on your chosen steed... taking up the point....any money saved can certainly pay for a very nice holiday or flat screen TV... .... neither of which cost north of £85-100k otherwise we may treat their purchase differently !!!
Whatever personal preference brand residuals do affect a brands sales success, as an example: yes there will always be those that have the money to invest in a new Vanquish without a worry for the £90k lost in 3 years, but the market is.... lets be honest limited! The same could be said for the Ferrari 456 which set the bar for future top end Ferrari GT flops in stark contrast to the F430, car buyers aren't silly!
What's wrong with thoroughly enjoying your car & wanting best residuals as part of the package, seems sense to me & sense for the manufacturer!
Nothing wrong at all matey. I'm just a bit fed up with the whole subject which seems to take up a huge percentage of post on other Forums - BMW and Porsche in particular - nowadays. Had to listen to a mate whinging about the annual hit on his Bentley Conti. last night. Didn't talk about the car itself ONCE. God imagine having a car like that and only being able to come up with deprciation as a topic when discussing it! A)what did he expect and B)He spends - at a guess - £20k pa on family holidays without a peep. The day my cars depreciation causes me mental grief I'll stop buying the things. Any depreciation I do suffer I see as bloody good value for the enjoyment I get in return. I do not see it as a loss any more than an expensive wine or meal that ends up down the loo within 24 hours You can love, treasure, enjoy & drive.....
a car while still considering & ensuring best residuals on your chosen steed... taking up the point....any money saved can certainly pay for a very nice holiday or flat screen TV... .... neither of which cost north of £85-100k otherwise we may treat their purchase differently !!!Whatever personal preference brand residuals do affect a brands sales success, as an example: yes there will always be those that have the money to invest in a new Vanquish without a worry for the £90k lost in 3 years, but the market is.... lets be honest limited! The same could be said for the Ferrari 456 which set the bar for future top end Ferrari GT flops in stark contrast to the F430, car buyers aren't silly!
What's wrong with thoroughly enjoying your car & wanting best residuals as part of the package, seems sense to me & sense for the manufacturer!
In summary WHY are you happy to suffer 100% DEPRECIATION - lets say at least £10k pa for a family man - in a couple of weeks on holidays. Simple - for the pleasure you get from them, however fleeting. You telling me your GT3 didn't give you as much, if not more, pleasure over 18 months? Surely the important figure is the amount 'lost' not the size initial outlay?
Buy wisely - your only real weapon against depreciation - then forget it.
Edited by Pugsey on Saturday 30th August 16:12
Life is all about having a balanced lifestyle.
Once one gets into the worry over finances and depreciation, life starts to become stressful and a misery.
However there are others (such as the guy with the Bentley!)who just want to find any excuse to have a whinge and a moan regardless of how affluent they may be.
The secret in life is to be happy and live life to the max!
Did a track day yesterday, it was so refreshing to see so many people enjoying themselves and saying what a great time they were having and what value for money they were getting, irrespective of the machinery that they were riding!
Once one gets into the worry over finances and depreciation, life starts to become stressful and a misery.
However there are others (such as the guy with the Bentley!)who just want to find any excuse to have a whinge and a moan regardless of how affluent they may be.
The secret in life is to be happy and live life to the max!
Did a track day yesterday, it was so refreshing to see so many people enjoying themselves and saying what a great time they were having and what value for money they were getting, irrespective of the machinery that they were riding!
Pugs... your on a wind up , you must be you little tinker
You spend more time & effort avoiding depreciation than anyone else I know!
How... by very carefully selecting only the next "it" car, offloading it early (alla GT3) because "values are softening" spending time & effort ensuring a resale value ahead of sale as per your first AMV8, actually offloading the AM Roadster straight away because values were dumping & spending time negotiating an agreed buy back deal for an 430 without restrictive mileage.... etc etc
All very shrewd & commendable, I have the greatest respect for your skills..
, but all time & effort spent trying to keep as much dosh in your pocket & REDUCE DEPRECIATION which IMHO is a wise thing to do... I certainly look after the pound in my pocket as well as possible which is one reason why I can afford the Aston!
Doesn't mean you don't enjoy your cars, or enjoy winding me up by playing devils advocate,you B*gger
!
Anyway the few who aren't "really" bothered about chucking £25k away in a year, when it could have been £10k (with £15k in their pocket) will not make enough difference when the brand value softens due to continued oversupply!
Edited to add.... By the way I'm not bad mouthing Aston, residuals on my last V8 were spot on what I expected, just trying to use "customer feedback power" to ensure they don't continue down the oversupply path to future doom!
, you must be you little tinker You spend more time & effort avoiding depreciation than anyone else I know
! How... by very carefully selecting only the next "it" car, offloading it early (alla GT3) because "values are softening" spending time & effort ensuring a resale value ahead of sale as per your first AMV8, actually offloading the AM Roadster straight away because values were dumping & spending time negotiating an agreed buy back deal for an 430 without restrictive mileage.... etc etc
All very shrewd & commendable, I have the greatest respect for your skills..
, but all time & effort spent trying to keep as much dosh in your pocket & REDUCE DEPRECIATION which IMHO is a wise thing to do... I certainly look after the pound in my pocket as well as possible which is one reason why I can afford the Aston!Doesn't mean you don't enjoy your cars, or enjoy winding me up by playing devils advocate,you B*gger
!Anyway the few who aren't "really" bothered about chucking £25k away in a year, when it could have been £10k (with £15k in their pocket) will not make enough difference when the brand value softens due to continued oversupply
!Edited to add.... By the way I'm not bad mouthing Aston, residuals on my last V8 were spot on what I expected, just trying to use "customer feedback power" to ensure they don't continue down the oversupply path to future doom!
Edited by Grant3 on Saturday 30th August 19:35
And because good Vanquishes are now cheap enough to be bought by bottom feeders like myself, is it really all that bad a thing? I don't like to see people lose money on cars,particularly the heroes that keep the factories going by buying the new ones, but its going to happen, its the pleasure you get out of them that repays that.
The real answer to depreciation is to buy a stonker and keep it for a very long time.
The real answer to depreciation is to buy a stonker and keep it for a very long time.
cardigankid said:
And because good Vanquishes are now cheap enough to be bought by bottom feeders like myself, is it really all that bad a thing? I don't like to see people lose money on cars,particularly the heroes that keep the factories going by buying the new ones, but its going to happen, its the pleasure you get out of them that repays that.
The real answer to depreciation is to buy a stonker and keep it for a very long time.
Cardy... if you can afford £80k for a Vanquish & then run it, I think you must be doing very well The real answer to depreciation is to buy a stonker and keep it for a very long time.
Pleasure vs pain.. its a life balance thing & it all depends how much pain £££ the pleasure causes
Edited by Grant3 on Saturday 30th August 19:48
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