S4 2001 engine failure advice required

S4 2001 engine failure advice required

Author
Discussion

chippy17

Original Poster:

3,740 posts

245 months

Friday 5th September 2008
quotequote all
a good friend has had an S4 from new, full Audi SH, 60k miles and the cambelt tensioner broke causing the obvious to happen...

I have never heard of this happening to an S4 but I am no expert, is this a weakness that has been seen before?

do you think he has comeback to Audi?

having talked to him I think an engine rebuild could be more trouble than it is worth so can one buy a new engine and if so how much?

any pearls greatly received

thanks



agent006

12,057 posts

266 months

Friday 5th September 2008
quotequote all
Isn't 60k the cambelt change interval on one of these anyway?

Robatr0n

12,362 posts

218 months

Friday 5th September 2008
quotequote all
Just so you know, Cambelts arean't just limited by how many miles they have covered but also age.

Ideally belts should be changed every 3-5 years depending on what the Manufacturer's service intervals and requirements state.

When I picked up my S2 the cambelt hadn't been changed in a long time and had 5000 miles left in it apparently. Like with all cars I buy, the cambelt is the first thing to be changed and it's lucky I did that as the belt looked in a terrible state and is currently hung on a garage wall in Iver to show people who cambelts go (he also tells me that it's the worst belt he has ever seen without snapping).

Since then I've had a further 2 cambelts fitted to the car.

chippy17

Original Poster:

3,740 posts

245 months

Friday 5th September 2008
quotequote all
agent006 said:
Isn't 60k the cambelt change interval on one of these anyway?
do not know this...

chippy17

Original Poster:

3,740 posts

245 months

Friday 5th September 2008
quotequote all
Robatr0n said:
Just so you know, Cambelts arean't just limited by how many miles they have covered but also age.

Ideally belts should be changed every 3-5 years depending on what the Manufacturer's service intervals and requirements state.

When I picked up my S2 the cambelt hadn't been changed in a long time and had 5000 miles left in it apparently. Like with all cars I buy, the cambelt is the first thing to be changed and it's lucky I did that as the belt looked in a terrible state and is currently hung on a garage wall in Iver to show people who cambelts go (he also tells me that it's the worst belt he has ever seen without snapping).

Since then I've had a further 2 cambelts fitted to the car.
to be honest not 100% sure at present whether it has had a change

many thanks, yes aware age is a factor, seeing as the car has always been serviced with Audi and cambelt and the fact that the cambelt would be part of the schedule, if it was not changed would Audi/dealer be liable. If it has been changed again would Audi not be liable for this...?

Robatr0n

12,362 posts

218 months

Friday 5th September 2008
quotequote all
Well it is their duty to change the cambelt along with the pre-tensioners and possibly the waterpump when carrying out a cambelt change/service. If it can be proved that this failure was a result of them cutting corners then I would say that your friend has an arguement.

Does the car have any extended warranty?

chippy17

Original Poster:

3,740 posts

245 months

Friday 5th September 2008
quotequote all
Robatr0n said:
Well it is their duty to change the cambelt along with the pre-tensioners and possibly the waterpump when carrying out a cambelt change/service. If it can be proved that this failure was a result of them cutting corners then I would say that your friend has an arguement.

Does the car have any extended warranty?
many thanks for confirming my thinking that it is worth making the effort and persuing Audi

afaik it does not have extended warranty but on the plus side it has never been out of Audi network with regards to servicing

chippy17

Original Poster:

3,740 posts

245 months

Friday 5th September 2008
quotequote all
just in case anyone is interested; have found out cambelt change on this car is 80k miles and interestingly no time limit is stated just miles!

MoonMonkey

2,210 posts

215 months

Friday 5th September 2008
quotequote all
chippy17 said:
just in case anyone is interested; have found out cambelt change on this car is 80k miles and interestingly no time limit is stated just miles!
This issue has been debated on many VAG forums. Handbook often states 80k miles especially for older vehicles but the recommendation now is to change at 60k miles. We found this out by accident when the wife's A4 clocked 60k. I took the cambelt cover off just out of interest and was horified to see cracks in the belt. A new one plus water pump and tensioners was fitted the next day.

Good luck to your mate but unless he's got some warranty then he's probably got a fight on his hand.

jimmyb

12,254 posts

218 months

Friday 5th September 2008
quotequote all
Cant see audi doing anything unless the belt was not replaced on schedule or if it was not replaced properly. They are not liable for the belt itself.

Mine has one every 60k miles or one a year roughly. Although its only a 1.9tdi.

Yertis

18,182 posts

268 months

Friday 5th September 2008
quotequote all
Robatr0n said:
Well it is their duty to change the cambelt along with the pre-tensioners and possibly the waterpump when carrying out a cambelt change/service. If it can be proved that this failure was a result of them cutting corners then I would say that your friend has an arguement.

Does the car have any extended warranty?
I'm not sure dealers see the tensioner and water pump as part of the standard service, only people like who us who actually care about the cars.

fade2grey

704 posts

250 months

Saturday 6th September 2008
quotequote all
I've only just spotted this post.. I had a b5 S4 with full audi service history & the cambelt snapped while on full gas. In short, the car was recovered to my (now different) local audi dealer for investigation - the belt had only been changed 2.5 years/12k miles (or something in that ball park) before the incident.

The upshot was that the bill to fix it was ~15k (thus writing off the car) & an extra bolt! We then went through a long & drawn out series of 3rd party investigations & legal threats etc. When the tensioners were done, the guy doing it must have dropped a bolt & couldn't find it assuming it dropped out the bottom he fitted a non vag suitably sized bolt. That worked fine until said lost bolt found it's way back into the assembly taking it all out.

If your car has full audi service & you've done everything by the book then push them on it.

The kicker for me was Audi UK's 'customer service' response lol. a) if it's over 5 years "we don't want to know" - dealer network only support.. despite the dealer in question being in the wrong. b) after a lot of hastle I got to speak to a more useful manager who gave me a courtesy car. Sadly she left a week later & the replacement called me up & said they wanted the car back today or they report it stolen to the police.

All in all after a long time running B5 S4's & RS4's I quit the brand. They paid up in the end, it took about 8 months in total. I did it all myself rather than employing a solicitor & possibly fighting an expensive battle. They never did admit liability though. At the start of it all I did offer them the chance to appologise & give me a suitable discount (ie book trade in for my car if it was working) against a new RS4 avant.. I bet they wish they'd taken it.

If anyone needs details, PM me.

chippy17

Original Poster:

3,740 posts

245 months

Wednesday 10th September 2008
quotequote all
Yertis said:
Robatr0n said:
Well it is their duty to change the cambelt along with the pre-tensioners and possibly the waterpump when carrying out a cambelt change/service. If it can be proved that this failure was a result of them cutting corners then I would say that your friend has an arguement.

Does the car have any extended warranty?
I'm not sure dealers see the tensioner and water pump as part of the standard service, only people like who us who actually care about the cars.
well this is the response my friend has just got from Audi, it was tensioner so not our problem! Friend asked dealer have they ever changed tensioner on it's own ie not part of cambelt change, their answer 'only when it breaks!'

chippy17

Original Poster:

3,740 posts

245 months

Wednesday 10th September 2008
quotequote all
fade2grey said:
I've only just spotted this post.. I had a b5 S4 with full audi service history & the cambelt snapped while on full gas. In short, the car was recovered to my (now different) local audi dealer for investigation - the belt had only been changed 2.5 years/12k miles (or something in that ball park) before the incident.

The upshot was that the bill to fix it was ~15k (thus writing off the car) & an extra bolt! We then went through a long & drawn out series of 3rd party investigations & legal threats etc. When the tensioners were done, the guy doing it must have dropped a bolt & couldn't find it assuming it dropped out the bottom he fitted a non vag suitably sized bolt. That worked fine until said lost bolt found it's way back into the assembly taking it all out.

If your car has full audi service & you've done everything by the book then push them on it.

The kicker for me was Audi UK's 'customer service' response lol. a) if it's over 5 years "we don't want to know" - dealer network only support.. despite the dealer in question being in the wrong. b) after a lot of hastle I got to speak to a more useful manager who gave me a courtesy car. Sadly she left a week later & the replacement called me up & said they wanted the car back today or they report it stolen to the police.

All in all after a long time running B5 S4's & RS4's I quit the brand. They paid up in the end, it took about 8 months in total. I did it all myself rather than employing a solicitor & possibly fighting an expensive battle. They never did admit liability though. At the start of it all I did offer them the chance to appologise & give me a suitable discount (ie book trade in for my car if it was working) against a new RS4 avant.. I bet they wish they'd taken it.

If anyone needs details, PM me.
many thanks for the info very useful, my friend is now trying the route of buying a new car as you tried above as (Sods Law) he was about to buy a new car anyway! I have told him to keep going and not take the first 'no' as the end of it.

SunDiver

780 posts

239 months

Thursday 11th September 2008
quotequote all
Call MRC Tuning - they're on www.mrctuning.com and ask their advice.

They've dealt with a number of failed-cambelt S4s - S4s are a large part of their business. They'll be able to tell you the options, costs and what's involved. They'll be much lower than Audi. No affiliation but I travel 100 miles to go to them for services such is their knowledge and service.


chippy17

Original Poster:

3,740 posts

245 months

Friday 12th September 2008
quotequote all
SunDiver said:
Call MRC Tuning - they're on www.mrctuning.com and ask their advice.

They've dealt with a number of failed-cambelt S4s - S4s are a large part of their business. They'll be able to tell you the options, costs and what's involved. They'll be much lower than Audi. No affiliation but I travel 100 miles to go to them for services such is their knowledge and service.
very useful thank you i will pass on to friend