Roller reefing and new sails

[Jaguar steve]

Jib and Genoa are both disintigrating - time for replacements.

I've got a quote for a Plastimo rr package and new sail for my 20" bilge keel boat at a similar price as replacing the two old sails - has anybody gone from hanked on headsails to roller reefing on the same boat?

I've never even sailed a boat with roller reefing before but as a lot of my sailing is single handed and my current sails are shagged this could be the answer.

Any difference in performance/problems/experiences?

Any recommendations for a sailmaker in Essex/Suffolk/Kent? I'm not a great fan of Plastimo products either so another manufacturer of the reefing gear?

[Hard-Drive]

I prefer to think of them as roller furling than roller reefing...as soon as you start to "reef" then the sail becomes a really nasty shape, IMHO too much draft near the top. Last thing you want when you are "changing down" is extra fullness as a trade off for area. However I'm usually race dinghies so it might be that I'm just a bit sensitive to nasty looking sails...perhaps less of a concern on a small bilge keeler anyway.

They are certainly very useful when shorthanded though, you won't need to leave your cockpit so they are safer, however if they jam you can have all kinds of fun trying to sort things...

[Jaguar steve]

It's because it's a small bilge keel boat I'm concerned about any loss of performance. It sails really well - for what is - with the hanked on sails.

I use telltales, barber haulers and carefully set the sheeting angle after each tack to get the best efficency out of the sail and am concerned that I may loose efficency if I fit roller reefing. Sailmaker has said I shouldn't see any loss of performance - but obviously he would 'cos he wants the buisness.

I can see it's a choice between performance or convenience. Want to know how much of each I'm compromising and whether the Plastimo rr gear is the one to choose.

[Hard-Drive]

You will see a drop in performance when reefed-fact. Otherwise all serious racing boats would have roller furling!

That said, it's not going to be a huge drop, as I guess you won't exactly be setting the world on fire in a 20' bilge keeler anyway, and you might find that the ease of sail handling more than makes up for the drop in performance...

[Bushmaster]

Hard-Drive said:

You will see a drop in performance when reefed-fact. Otherwise all serious racing boats would have roller furling!

What, a bit like this, you mean?

[Hard-Drive]

Precisely, that's roller furling. That no1 is all the way out. If it gets windy, he'll furl that, and unfurl the number 2. The boat is set up for quick singlehanded sail changes and you will do that a million times faster with the luxury of multiple headsail furling systems than you could possibly ever do with hanks, headfoils and you on your tod with a winch handle. IMOCA 60s have 3 roller furling headsails all ready to go. They do not get them halfway out and use them reefed.

What I was suggesting the OP avoid is something like this...and it's only been "reefed" a little bit too...

Edited by Hard-Drive on Saturday 21st February 21:25

[Jaguar steve]

Hard-Drive said:

Precisely, that's roller furling. That no1 is all the way out. If it gets windy, he'll furl that, and unfurl the number 2. The boat is set up for quick singlehanded sail changes and you will do that a million times faster with the luxury of multiple headsail furling systems than you could possibly ever do with hanks, headfoils and you on your tod with a winch handle. IMOCA 60s have 3 roller furling headsails all ready to go. They do not get them halfway out and use them reefed.

What I was suggesting the OP avoid is something like this...and it's only been "reefed" a little bit too...

Edited by Hard-Drive on Saturday 21st February 21:25

Quite right too. That looks horrible

[Bushmaster]

Jaguar steve said:

Hard-Drive said:

Precisely, that's roller furling. That no1 is all the way out. If it gets windy, he'll furl that, and unfurl the number 2. The boat is set up for quick singlehanded sail changes and you will do that a million times faster with the luxury of multiple headsail furling systems than you could possibly ever do with hanks, headfoils and you on your tod with a winch handle. IMOCA 60s have 3 roller furling headsails all ready to go. They do not get them halfway out and use them reefed.

What I was suggesting the OP avoid is something like this...and it's only been "reefed" a little bit too...

Edited by Hard-Drive on Saturday 21st February 21:25

Quite right too. That looks horrible

Maybe it would work better with a barber-hauler to pull the clew of the Genoa further down, and moving the Genoa sheet car further for'ard would help too.

Edited by Bushmaster on Sunday 22 February 12:36

[Hard-Drive]

Er, no. The sail is cut so that fully set it's point of maximum draft will be somewhere about 30% of the way back from the luff fore and aft, and there will also be a degree of curvature up and down. When you roller reef suddenly you are asking this but of cloth that's been quite happy performing it's job of being the point of maximum draft suddenly to be the sail's entry. Sure, as you reef you should move the cars forward to maintain foot/leach tension but it won't sort out that baggyness. Just my 2p worth...but I guess on a small sail for a 20footer the effect will be less pronounced...

[schmalex]

Bushmaster said:

Jaguar steve said:

Hard-Drive said:

Precisely, that's roller furling. That no1 is all the way out. If it gets windy, he'll furl that, and unfurl the number 2. The boat is set up for quick singlehanded sail changes and you will do that a million times faster with the luxury of multiple headsail furling systems than you could possibly ever do with hanks, headfoils and you on your tod with a winch handle. IMOCA 60s have 3 roller furling headsails all ready to go. They do not get them halfway out and use them reefed.

What I was suggesting the OP avoid is something like this...and it's only been "reefed" a little bit too...

Edited by Hard-Drive on Saturday 21st February 21:25

Quite right too. That looks horrible

Maybe it would work better with a barber-hauler to pull the clew of the Genoa further down, and moving the Genoa sheet car further for'ard would help too.

Edited by Bushmaster on Sunday 22 February 12:36

No. Even if you tighten the leech, you will not be able to do anything about the draft on that headsail. Roller furling is an absolute performance killer in anything (the IMOCA 60's are different, as they will never sail with headsail semi furled). Even for cruising, I would always go with a tuff luff, or hanks at a minimum (a #1, #3 & storm jib is all you really need for cruising). If you are forced to sail another 15 degrees off the wind & 2 knots slower because of the roller furling (& it will have that much of an effect), no-one is going to enjoy their day out.

I hate roller furling.

[Bushmaster]

Trouble is you need a bigger crew if you are going to be changing headsails. Dragging the new sail to the foredeck, hoisting it, manhandling a No 1 down, flaking it, bagging it, lugging it below, etc takes considerable man-power!

Maybe it's different cruising, I have only ever done this racing.

Are you doing the Fastnet this year? I am thinking about it.

[schmalex]

Not this year unfortunately. I was hoping to, but I changed job in January, so just don't have enough holiday to take. A real shame, as I was hoping to find a ride

Ref sails - I know what you mean, but I can't stand the shape of a semi furled headsail - I would much rather thrash about with dakron for 10 mins or so to get the performance.