Discussion
I advise you to go straight to a 350 sl, anything specific you wish to know just ask. (My sl is on my profile 1979 350)
buyers guide
Great site all 107 related
A mercedes club
MB world 107 section
107 wiki
the sl shop
SL community
HTH
buyers guide
Great site all 107 related
A mercedes club
MB world 107 section
107 wiki
the sl shop
SL community
HTH
Where to start? 1971, obviously, but these cars ran until 1989 so there is a lot to know.
First, European engines were all proper high performing motors, not smog-strangled US-spec.
Second, there were two major changes: the first in 1980 and the second in 1985. Post-1985 cars had significantly updated running gear with engines and transmission that were produced well into the 1990s. These cars have bigger brakes and better suspensions. They are recogniseable by the deep bib spoiler and 15" flat face wheels. Taste is a matter of taste, but to my eye these cars are less attractive than the early ones.
The earliest cars can be quite poverty spec, no wood, manual windows, 4-speed manual transmissions, steel wheels, no wing mirrors and so on. However, these cars certainly have a great deal of charm and are by no means slow. Often the colour schemes are most attractive in a retro way.
The 350 SL launched in 1971 has a 200bhp V8; with a manual transmission this car can be very sporting indeed. The auto had only 3 speeds. First gear is pretty long. The 450 SL came a little later with a V8 of about 225bhp. Torque output is a lot higher than the 350, I cannot remember the figures but believe on the 450 it is above 250lb/ft torque at about 3,500rpm. All 450s have the 3 speed auto. The 280 SL was the fuel crisis car. This has the venerable M110 2.8litre DOHC straight six with circa 185bhp. With a manual transmission this car can be a delight; with the auto it is a bit slow. I think the auto may have 4speeds.
The major change came in 1980 when the 350 SL was replaced by the 380 SL (208bhp V8) and the 450 SL was replaced by the 500 SL (240bhp V8). In the UK and Europe the 380 motor always had duplex timing chains: ignore all the guff from America about weak single-chain 380 motors). The 280 SL continued as before. The 500 has an alloy bonnet and bootlid and was regarded as something of an hotrod at the time. For the 1982 model year the electrics were updated and the beautiful switchgear for the windows and electric seats was replaced with hideous modern rubbish. Most cars have the 14" alloys called baroque, Bundt cake or Mexican hat. I find these very attractive on the car. The 500 SL had a rubber rear spoiler necessary not only for aerodynamic effect at very high speed but to give rigidity to the alloy boot lid.
In 1985 the 280 SL was replaced by the 300 SL with the fantastic and reliable M103 straight six equipped with 12valves and SOHC. That engine develops 190bhp. The 380 was replaced by the 420 SL, fitted with an updated 4.2litre V8. Power was about the same (uo slightly to 218bhp I think) although torque was up. The 420 is the rarest of all 107 SLs. I guess most people in the market for a V8 went the whole hog and specified the 500 SL which received an updated motor with 245bhp and about 299lb/ft torque. Gearboxes were updated across the range: a newer 4speed auto with a cosmetically different shift gate. I think the 300 was available with a 5speed close ratio manual but I have never seen one and I doubt many if any were supplied to the UK like that. As noted, brakes and suspension were upgraded in 1985, a deeper spoiler fitted and bigger more modern alloys.
UK cars did not get the updated heating system which was bestowed on LHD cars in 1985. Air con and heated seats were optional at all times and not many cars have them. All cars came with a matching hardtop. A few 500 SLs, I think in 1980 to 1981, were supplied in the standard two tone body work with anthracite lower bodywork. An electric hood was never available from the factory although a few cars had them fitted by third parties when new or subsequently. The only speakers in the car should be in the dashboard (a pair, behind the factory grilles), the only aerial in the nearside rear wing (manual and electric available).
Parts availability for all models is excellent. The only difficulty you will face is replacing tyres. While there are a few premium manufacturers still making tyres in the post-1985 size 205/65 VR 15 (Continental, Dunlop and Pirelli offer suitable tyres at sensible prices), only Michelin (of the premium manufacturers) still produces a tyre in size 205/70 VR 14 fitted to the pre-1985 cars: you really need to fit this Michelin XWX at £225 per corner, there is no alternative other than the Fulda Carat Assuro which is not as good and looks ghastly.
These cars are superbly built, probably better than any other car still on the road today. However, this means they can bear and hide years--decades--of neglect without showing much strain. Make sure you buy one which has been looked after and kept original.
First, European engines were all proper high performing motors, not smog-strangled US-spec.
Second, there were two major changes: the first in 1980 and the second in 1985. Post-1985 cars had significantly updated running gear with engines and transmission that were produced well into the 1990s. These cars have bigger brakes and better suspensions. They are recogniseable by the deep bib spoiler and 15" flat face wheels. Taste is a matter of taste, but to my eye these cars are less attractive than the early ones.
The earliest cars can be quite poverty spec, no wood, manual windows, 4-speed manual transmissions, steel wheels, no wing mirrors and so on. However, these cars certainly have a great deal of charm and are by no means slow. Often the colour schemes are most attractive in a retro way.
The 350 SL launched in 1971 has a 200bhp V8; with a manual transmission this car can be very sporting indeed. The auto had only 3 speeds. First gear is pretty long. The 450 SL came a little later with a V8 of about 225bhp. Torque output is a lot higher than the 350, I cannot remember the figures but believe on the 450 it is above 250lb/ft torque at about 3,500rpm. All 450s have the 3 speed auto. The 280 SL was the fuel crisis car. This has the venerable M110 2.8litre DOHC straight six with circa 185bhp. With a manual transmission this car can be a delight; with the auto it is a bit slow. I think the auto may have 4speeds.
The major change came in 1980 when the 350 SL was replaced by the 380 SL (208bhp V8) and the 450 SL was replaced by the 500 SL (240bhp V8). In the UK and Europe the 380 motor always had duplex timing chains: ignore all the guff from America about weak single-chain 380 motors). The 280 SL continued as before. The 500 has an alloy bonnet and bootlid and was regarded as something of an hotrod at the time. For the 1982 model year the electrics were updated and the beautiful switchgear for the windows and electric seats was replaced with hideous modern rubbish. Most cars have the 14" alloys called baroque, Bundt cake or Mexican hat. I find these very attractive on the car. The 500 SL had a rubber rear spoiler necessary not only for aerodynamic effect at very high speed but to give rigidity to the alloy boot lid.
In 1985 the 280 SL was replaced by the 300 SL with the fantastic and reliable M103 straight six equipped with 12valves and SOHC. That engine develops 190bhp. The 380 was replaced by the 420 SL, fitted with an updated 4.2litre V8. Power was about the same (uo slightly to 218bhp I think) although torque was up. The 420 is the rarest of all 107 SLs. I guess most people in the market for a V8 went the whole hog and specified the 500 SL which received an updated motor with 245bhp and about 299lb/ft torque. Gearboxes were updated across the range: a newer 4speed auto with a cosmetically different shift gate. I think the 300 was available with a 5speed close ratio manual but I have never seen one and I doubt many if any were supplied to the UK like that. As noted, brakes and suspension were upgraded in 1985, a deeper spoiler fitted and bigger more modern alloys.
UK cars did not get the updated heating system which was bestowed on LHD cars in 1985. Air con and heated seats were optional at all times and not many cars have them. All cars came with a matching hardtop. A few 500 SLs, I think in 1980 to 1981, were supplied in the standard two tone body work with anthracite lower bodywork. An electric hood was never available from the factory although a few cars had them fitted by third parties when new or subsequently. The only speakers in the car should be in the dashboard (a pair, behind the factory grilles), the only aerial in the nearside rear wing (manual and electric available).
Parts availability for all models is excellent. The only difficulty you will face is replacing tyres. While there are a few premium manufacturers still making tyres in the post-1985 size 205/65 VR 15 (Continental, Dunlop and Pirelli offer suitable tyres at sensible prices), only Michelin (of the premium manufacturers) still produces a tyre in size 205/70 VR 14 fitted to the pre-1985 cars: you really need to fit this Michelin XWX at £225 per corner, there is no alternative other than the Fulda Carat Assuro which is not as good and looks ghastly.
These cars are superbly built, probably better than any other car still on the road today. However, this means they can bear and hide years--decades--of neglect without showing much strain. Make sure you buy one which has been looked after and kept original.
Edited by r129sl on Wednesday 25th February 09:50
Edited by r129sl on Wednesday 25th February 09:51
That's excellent info!
So for a european spec car, any of the V8 engines (350/380/450) can be considered (as opposed to the States where it all get complicated). Is there much different mechanically bewteen the 350 & 450 other than the engine (for example, a reason to buy one over another, other than the increased torque)?
I think that post '85 are going to be a lot more than I'd want to spend for the V8 models. I was thinking around £6k. So a late 70's, early 80's V8? Finally, where is a good place to look online for classifieds? I'm sure that there were lots on the road not too long ago but an internet search doesn't return much. Have the older cars got to a stage now where the rot has set in and they've been scrapped, leaving only restored cars with inflated premiums?
So for a european spec car, any of the V8 engines (350/380/450) can be considered (as opposed to the States where it all get complicated). Is there much different mechanically bewteen the 350 & 450 other than the engine (for example, a reason to buy one over another, other than the increased torque)?
I think that post '85 are going to be a lot more than I'd want to spend for the V8 models. I was thinking around £6k. So a late 70's, early 80's V8? Finally, where is a good place to look online for classifieds? I'm sure that there were lots on the road not too long ago but an internet search doesn't return much. Have the older cars got to a stage now where the rot has set in and they've been scrapped, leaving only restored cars with inflated premiums?
Here looks like a nice sl 350
SL 350 @ £6000
1971 @ £14000
1983 380 sl @ £9000
The SL shop
Classic cars for sale
SL 350 @ £6000
1971 @ £14000
1983 380 sl @ £9000
The SL shop
Classic cars for sale
The sources mentioned are good ones. The SL Shop is also known as Bailey's Classic Cars and is a dealer. You may be better off buying privately or at a classic auction. H & H have good auctions every month. Another source is carandclassic.co.uk
There are loads about but my advice is to look long and hard. Get a feel for what a good one is like. I have seen loads within your budget that would serve well for many years yet.
As a general rule, newer cars are more expensive than older ones but the difference is not huge: condition and mileage are much more relevant to price than age. A good old car will always be more than a poor new one. The market is obsessed with low mileage: anything under 50k miles costs a fortune but it seems to me that such cars will have suffered terribly for lack of use. I would look in the 100k+ range for a car which has been used well and maintained well.
The 350 and 450 motors are essentially the same; likewise the 380, 420 and 500 motors which in turn are only slightly modified from the 350 and 450. Older cars of about 1973 to 1976 have more complex fuel injection systems but there are no horror stories or ones to avoid. Looked after properly (regular fluid changes), the engines last forever. The bodywork is pretty solid, too: compared to any other 1970s car you might as well consider them "rustproof" (although they do rust, of course).
If it were me, I would be after a really good early 350 SL with manual transmission, maybe even a 280 SL, in a crazy colour like citrus green or a fair to good but slightly leggy early 1980s 500 SL.
I like these, especially the first one:
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C76040
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C70064
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C76622
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C46025
Oh, wiper blades are hard to get but apparently they are making some more.
There are loads about but my advice is to look long and hard. Get a feel for what a good one is like. I have seen loads within your budget that would serve well for many years yet.
As a general rule, newer cars are more expensive than older ones but the difference is not huge: condition and mileage are much more relevant to price than age. A good old car will always be more than a poor new one. The market is obsessed with low mileage: anything under 50k miles costs a fortune but it seems to me that such cars will have suffered terribly for lack of use. I would look in the 100k+ range for a car which has been used well and maintained well.
The 350 and 450 motors are essentially the same; likewise the 380, 420 and 500 motors which in turn are only slightly modified from the 350 and 450. Older cars of about 1973 to 1976 have more complex fuel injection systems but there are no horror stories or ones to avoid. Looked after properly (regular fluid changes), the engines last forever. The bodywork is pretty solid, too: compared to any other 1970s car you might as well consider them "rustproof" (although they do rust, of course).
If it were me, I would be after a really good early 350 SL with manual transmission, maybe even a 280 SL, in a crazy colour like citrus green or a fair to good but slightly leggy early 1980s 500 SL.
I like these, especially the first one:
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C76040
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C70064
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C76622
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C46025
Oh, wiper blades are hard to get but apparently they are making some more.
Edited by r129sl on Wednesday 25th February 15:19
This is a good read prior to starting your search -
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mercedes-Benz-280-560SL-SLC-...
These are wonderful cars. Good hunting.
ETA: If you do nothing else, lift the carpets out fully and have a good poke around the lower bulkhead/floor.
Also, take a watering can, fill it and pour the contents down each air intake under the windscreen. The water should exit via the front sill drain point. If any water appears in the footwells, run, run like the wind.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mercedes-Benz-280-560SL-SLC-...
These are wonderful cars. Good hunting.
ETA: If you do nothing else, lift the carpets out fully and have a good poke around the lower bulkhead/floor.
Also, take a watering can, fill it and pour the contents down each air intake under the windscreen. The water should exit via the front sill drain point. If any water appears in the footwells, run, run like the wind.
Edited by Niiick on Thursday 26th February 00:47
Post 85 cars look much better to my eyes, they have a deeper chin spoiler and more modern looking flat face alloys. I think the suspension was re-designed at this time to resist dive on braking and acceleration.
The interior ventilation was updated at some other point in the models history, earlier cars I have seen have 3 vents in the centre and sort of louvres on the steering wheel later ones have two vents and a flat steering wheel.
Some don't have a rear seat as this was an option, I sought one without as the seat would be useless but the shelf you get instead is quite handy. Oddly mine has seatbelts fitted under the shelf so guess trimming it to get a seat would not be too hard, presumably this is to do with type approval.
Quite a lot of these cars are getting rusty these days, mine included, but there are plenty to choose from you so you will soon be able to find one. As a bonus I reckon they are at something of a pricing low point.
Mine is a car I plan to keep for the rest of my days, I am planning to have the body restored in the near future before it gets too bad (around mudflaps on front wings is usual rust spot, avoid any with chrome arches)
Good luck
Ben
The interior ventilation was updated at some other point in the models history, earlier cars I have seen have 3 vents in the centre and sort of louvres on the steering wheel later ones have two vents and a flat steering wheel.
Some don't have a rear seat as this was an option, I sought one without as the seat would be useless but the shelf you get instead is quite handy. Oddly mine has seatbelts fitted under the shelf so guess trimming it to get a seat would not be too hard, presumably this is to do with type approval.
Quite a lot of these cars are getting rusty these days, mine included, but there are plenty to choose from you so you will soon be able to find one. As a bonus I reckon they are at something of a pricing low point.
Mine is a car I plan to keep for the rest of my days, I am planning to have the body restored in the near future before it gets too bad (around mudflaps on front wings is usual rust spot, avoid any with chrome arches)
Good luck
Ben
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