Lathes

[V8 GRF]

Anyone know anything about 'hobby' lathes?

I quite like the look of the Emco Unimat 4 as it also can be used (with accessories) as a milling machine and tower drill.

See here any thoughts or experiences?

Recommendatiojns for others?

Thanks in anticipation chaps.

[Big Al.]

What sort of work do you intend to carry out on it, and what metals do you intend to Machine?

[dr_gn]

V8 GRF said:

Anyone know anything about 'hobby' lathes?

I quite like the look of the Emco Unimat 4 as it also can be used (with accessories) as a milling machine and tower drill.

See here any thoughts or experiences?

Recommendatiojns for others?

Thanks in anticipation chaps.

I have a 1966 Myford ML7, bought for £400 a couple of years ago. Superb quality, can be used for basic milling as well. Mine just needed a good strip, clean, paint and adjustment of the gibs. Bearings are perfect. Minimal wear on the ways near the chuck, but you soon learn to compensate if necessary. I went into the small lathe thing, and the concensus was to buy a good second hand Myford over a new Chinese item. Most spares for my lathe are still available from the factory in Nottingham, they have regular open days so you can go and see how they make their latest items and refurbish old ones. It's a blast from the past. No idea about Emco - they seemed a bit small from memory.

I also have a 1960's 'Fobco Star' bench drill is also suberbly engineered. It is in a different league from the much more modern NuTool item it replaced which sounded like a can of nails. The bearings in this thing are so good it is cabable of light milling too. Again, second hand, just stripped, cleaned and painted.

Here is an excellent site for all older machine tools in terms of cababilities:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/emco/index.html

Bear in mind that the lathe itself is the start - you will probably need to spend as much again on decent tooling depending on what you want to do. Again, my lathe came with several chucks, a vertical slide, turrets, a decent stand etc etc, all of which will probably be extras to a new item.

Hope this helps.

[V8 GRF]

Thanks for that response.
I'm looking to build a smallish model something about 1/8 or 1/12, I haven't decided ye, but no really big pieces so I was thinking I didn't need a large machine, but I'd be advised otherwise. That piece of kit I linked to in my post looked handy as space is at a bit of a premium and it looks like a 3 in 1 machine, compromises made as a result I'm sure but that's I'm asking advice. I'm looking to work with mild/stainless steel and soft alloys.

[dr_gn]

V8 GRF said:

Thanks for that response.
I'm looking to build a smallish model something about 1/8 or 1/12, I haven't decided ye, but no really big pieces so I was thinking I didn't need a large machine, but I'd be advised otherwise. That piece of kit I linked to in my post looked handy as space is at a bit of a premium and it looks like a 3 in 1 machine, compromises made as a result I'm sure but that's I'm asking advice. I'm looking to work with mild/stainless steel and soft alloys.

A model of what? Steam engine?

[Big Al.]

I'd go with Dr gn, a Myford would be my first choice a stalwort of the model engineering word. A solid piece of kit.

My son has recently bought an "import" type lathe not cheap I might add, and well it dosent feel like a solid piece of kit all a bit whooly IMHO.

The old saying is still true, you can machine light items on a heavy machine but you can't machine heavy items on a light machine.

[dr_gn]

Big Al. said:

I'd go with Dr gn, a Myford would be my first choice a stalwort of the model engineering word. A solid piece of kit.

My son has recently bought an "import" type lathe not cheap I might add, and well it dosent feel like a solid piece of kit all a bit whooly IMHO.

The old saying is still true, you can machine light items on a heavy machine but you can't machine heavy items on a light machine.

I'm currently looking for one of these at a decent price:

http://www.mini-lathe.com/X3_mill/X3rvw/X3.htm

Going to convert it to CNC. Apparently these foreign things are better than the older European/American stuff for conversion due to their layout and construction. They are capable of good results after fettling (one supplier of new X3's even provides a 'setup' service for a not inconsiderable abount of money). You can tell just by the photos that these things are built by .... er, well lets just say not people of Myfords caliber.

[V8 GRF]

dr_gn said:

A model of what? Steam engine?

No a TVR Griffith. (see my profile)

[dr_gn]

Quinny said:

Myford are excellent pieces of kit for the money. But also worth a look are some of the older Colchester models.. Many have been used in schools and colleges, so have been properly maintained and hardly done any real work..

I bought one from a guy for £300 quid and had to spend about another £100 or so on a few bits and bobs, but it was a lovely little machine to use...

Or Boxford?

From what I've been told I don't think there are many schools left that have lathes. They are undoubtedly a great buy if you can find one though.

[dr_gn]

V8 GRF said:

dr_gn said:

A model of what? Steam engine?

No a TVR Griffith. (see my profile)

I see.

Do you have any experience of machine tools and/or model making?

To get an idea of what can be done with a Chinese Lathe and, from what he says, no experience, take a look at this guy:

http://www.mmrca.org/lance/sledframe.html

Look at his landing gear at date

1:8:2009

Edited by dr_gn on Saturday 1st August 00:01

[V8 GRF]

dr_gn said:

V8 GRF said:

dr_gn said:

A model of what? Steam engine?

No a TVR Griffith. (see my profile)

I see.

Do you have any experience of machine tools and/or model making?

Plastic and whitemetal model making yes, Tamiya F1 plastic cars as a teenager then I moved on to bigger metal bodied models and built a 1/8th F40 for example. R/C model cars and a helicopter and then quite a few 1:43rds over the years.

I've made castings and used 3D modeling packages for nearly 20 years and exported CAD and SLA models to CNC machines. I intend to use a combination of 3D scanning and modeling and then export files to a '3D printer' and then take moulds off those pattern parts. Hopefully I've got access to the 3D Solidworks chassis file and intend to build a chassis first to get my hand in.

Machine tools, real experience ended at A level, but I've dabbled a bit every now and again working on farms and other workshops fixing machines and making parts but the priciples I guess are the same as they were at school?

I don't expect Rome to be built in a day so I'm quite happy to move at a steady/slow pace and learn as I go along. I'm setting myself a target of 2 years.

[V8 GRF]

dr_gn said:

To get an idea of what can be done with a Chinese Lathe and, from what he says, no experience, take a look at this guy:

http://www.mmrca.org/lance/sledframe.html

Look at his landing gear at date

1:8:2009

Wow impressive stuff, spurred me on actually I've bookmarked that page

[dilbert]

If it's for railway stuff;

1/12 is a 5"G railway locomotive.
1/8 is a 7 1/4"G railway locomotive.

The Emco you showed is way too small for either. A Myford 7 will do a 5" engine comfortably, but it'll only manage a small 7 1/4" and some things will be a struggle. For 7 1/4" you really need to be thinking about a Colchester Chipmaster with is still an absolutely superb machine, despite being commercially obsolete. Like driving a Rolls-Royce, sport model! The trouble with lathes much larger than the Myford 7 and the Boxford too for that matter, is that they aren't designed to allow milling to be done easily in them. Then you're into a bigger machine, and a milling machine too.

If you can only stretch to a Myford 7, either financially or because of space, then constrain your ambitions to 5" or smaller 7 1/4", to avoid disappointment. The Myford 7 is great, because one way or another there's almost nothing you can't do but might need for a small steam engine.

There is one disadvantage with a Myford 7. Because it's got a permanent gap bed, there's no easy way to implement a front mounted saddle stop. Such a device is sorely missed once you've had one. It doesn't prevent you from doing anything, but producing the same quality of work without one takes much more patience.

Edited to add;
Reading what you said about machining castings, I'm getting a picture that you're maybe thinking about 5 axis CNC machines. TBH I'm not sure that there is anything as small as you want.

Edited by dilbert on Saturday 1st August 07:25

[mrmaggit]

V8 GRF said:

Anyone know anything about 'hobby' lathes?

I quite like the look of the Emco Unimat 4 as it also can be used (with accessories) as a milling machine and tower drill.

See here any thoughts or experiences?

Recommendatiojns for others?

Thanks in anticipation chaps.

Pile of crap, don't touch with somebody elses'. Get a proper lathe (Myford or similar), and a proper milling machine big enough for what you want to do, plus a bit, in both cases.

If you're like my Dad, you sell your M7 myford, find a college re-equipping, and get a 6" Harrison lathe c/w 3 and 4 jaw chucks an an Elliott milling machine with slotting head, pillar drill for less than the amount you got for the Myford. Honestly, he did this, and has made 3 no. 3" Fowler Ploughing engines and a Koppel rack-and-pinion engine with them. The amount of stuff that came with the lathe that hadn't even been used was incredible. I think the Lorry hire to shift them was the most expensive bit.

[dr_gn]

V8 GRF said:

dr_gn said:

V8 GRF said:

dr_gn said:

A model of what? Steam engine?

No a TVR Griffith. (see my profile)

I see.

Do you have any experience of machine tools and/or model making?

Plastic and whitemetal model making yes, Tamiya F1 plastic cars as a teenager then I moved on to bigger metal bodied models and built a 1/8th F40 for example. R/C model cars and a helicopter and then quite a few 1:43rds over the years.

I've made castings and used 3D modeling packages for nearly 20 years and exported CAD and SLA models to CNC machines. I intend to use a combination of 3D scanning and modeling and then export files to a '3D printer' and then take moulds off those pattern parts. Hopefully I've got access to the 3D Solidworks chassis file and intend to build a chassis first to get my hand in.

Machine tools, real experience ended at A level, but I've dabbled a bit every now and again working on farms and other workshops fixing machines and making parts but the priciples I guess are the same as they were at school?

I don't expect Rome to be built in a day so I'm quite happy to move at a steady/slow pace and learn as I go along. I'm setting myself a target of 2 years.

That's good then: I was going to suggest a laser radar for the bodywork: get a surface model from the point cloud data, scale it down and cnc a mould. If you've got access to an RP machine, then the jobs half done!

We are experimenting with laser sintering and metal injection moulding at work - would be great for an engine!

Word of advice on tools: use inserts. Don't bother with HSS and sharpening your own. If you're not competent at it you will almost certainly not be able to tell whether a poor result was due to the tool you sharpened incorrectly, or your machining technique. The old lags will tell you to learn to sharpen HSS in case you need to make a tool - I've never had to make one, since inserts are available for most jobs:

http://www.greenwood-tools.co.uk/ishop/728/shopscr...

Good Luck.

[dr_gn]

mrmaggit said:

V8 GRF said:

Anyone know anything about 'hobby' lathes?

I quite like the look of the Emco Unimat 4 as it also can be used (with accessories) as a milling machine and tower drill.

See here any thoughts or experiences?

Recommendatiojns for others?

Thanks in anticipation chaps.

Pile of crap, don't touch with somebody elses'. Get a proper lathe (Myford or similar), and a proper milling machine big enough for what you want to do, plus a bit, in both cases.

If you're like my Dad, you sell your M7 myford, find a college re-equipping, and get a 6" Harrison lathe c/w 3 and 4 jaw chucks an an Elliott milling machine with slotting head, pillar drill for less than the amount you got for the Myford. Honestly, he did this, and has made 3 no. 3" Fowler Ploughing engines and a Koppel rack-and-pinion engine with them. The amount of stuff that came with the lathe that hadn't even been used was incredible. I think the Lorry hire to shift them was the most expensive bit.

It's a fact that in general for the amateur, the larger the lathe, the cheaper it is. Weight and space could be issues and also the larger machines are sometimes 3 phase. It's surprising what you can do with a gap bed ML7. For a 1:8 scale model car its more than large enough.

[dr_gn]

dilbert said:

Edited to add;
Reading what you said about machining castings, I'm getting a picture that you're maybe thinking about 5 axis CNC machines. TBH I'm not sure that there is anything as small as you want.

Edited by dilbert on Saturday 1st August 07:25

You'd be surprised, check out the 6-axis Cybaman Replicator:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCDsWHAF2BU

http://www.cybamantech.co.uk/?page=cybaman

We have one in a corner at work. Used for dental work among other things.

I'm very lucky to work in a manufacturing research establishment and get access to some way cool machinery and metrology systems, some of which is not even available to industry yet.

Cheers,

[dilbert]

dr_gn said:

dilbert said:

Edited to add;
Reading what you said about machining castings, I'm getting a picture that you're maybe thinking about 5 axis CNC machines. TBH I'm not sure that there is anything as small as you want.

Edited by dilbert on Saturday 1st August 07:25

You'd be surprised, check out the 6-axis Cybaman Replicator:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCDsWHAF2BU

http://www.cybamantech.co.uk/?page=cybaman

We have one in a corner at work. Used for dental work among other things.

I'm very lucky to work in a manufacturing research establishment and get access to some way cool machinery and metrology systems, some of which is not even available to industry yet.

Cheers,

Hey, that's pretty cool. I still don't think it would be my first choice of machine tool, but possibly the second, and certainly the third. For me, I think I'd miss the traditional jig borer, and true turned component, roles. I guess it depends on what you're after. Most engineered devices depend more heavily on round or square components with at most one or two axes. Far fewer on "funky shapes". Certainly the Myford 7 will fulfil both of those roles in one machine.

For example, I don't think I'd want to trust an n-axis machine with no single point tool capability or high quality axis locking, to make a decent plain bearing. Even with those features, it's difficult to beat the inherent accuracy of perpendicular slides and a fixed mandrel.

The OP was looking to make patterns for castings and prototypes though, and that machine would satisfy that role, beyond just about anything else.

Edited by dilbert on Sunday 2nd August 06:59

[dr_gn]

dilbert said:

dr_gn said:

dilbert said:

Edited to add;
Reading what you said about machining castings, I'm getting a picture that you're maybe thinking about 5 axis CNC machines. TBH I'm not sure that there is anything as small as you want.

Edited by dilbert on Saturday 1st August 07:25

You'd be surprised, check out the 6-axis Cybaman Replicator:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCDsWHAF2BU

http://www.cybamantech.co.uk/?page=cybaman

We have one in a corner at work. Used for dental work among other things.

I'm very lucky to work in a manufacturing research establishment and get access to some way cool machinery and metrology systems, some of which is not even available to industry yet.

Cheers,

Hey, that's pretty cool. I still don't think it would be my first choice of machine tool, but possibly the second, and certainly the third. For me, I think I'd miss the traditional jig borer, and true turned component, roles. I guess it depends on what you're after. Most engineered devices depend more heavily on round or square components with at most one or two axes. Far fewer on "funky shapes". Certainly the Myford 7 will fulfil both of those roles in one machine.

For example, I don't think I'd want to trust an n-axis machine with no single point tool capability or high quality axis locking, to make a decent plain bearing. Even with those features, it's difficult to beat the inherent accuracy of perpendicular slides and a fixed mandrel.

The OP was looking to make patterns for castings and prototypes though, and that machine would satisfy that role, beyond just about anything else.

Edited by dilbert on Sunday 2nd August 06:59

Since the OP was asking about a basic lathe that costs around £300, and the Cybaman Replicator has a starting price of around £70,000, I obviously wasn't suggesting he bought one, just pointing out that there are indeed very small mult-axis machine tools which would be ideal for model making. Find a machine shop who's got one, and it would be a possibility to get things made from a solid model.

I've had some very small components made on a Cincinnati CFV 550i, (which is a relatively large machine compared with the C-R) with no problems at all. It all depends on the design of the parts and the skill of the operator in determining the correct machining strategy.

[Quick silver]

V8 GRF said:

Anyone know anything about 'hobby' lathes?

I quite like the look of the Emco Unimat 4 as it also can be used (with accessories) as a milling machine and tower drill.

I have a 'Chester - Cobra 3 in 1", weighting in @ 45kg (over 7 stone).......it's similar to the Emco Unimat 4.

http://www.chesteruk.net/store/cobra_3in1.htm