Stopping at a Junction or lights with an Automatic?
Discussion
Was driving an automatic at the weekend and found myself wandering what the "Correct Procedure" was when stopping at lights etc.
It didn't seem right to me to hold on the foot brake the whole time and I naturaly slotted it into park, however this led me to think, I see lot's of folk burning the brake lights on such occasions (unknown whether auto or not) but rarely the flash of the reverse lights as an Auto is shifted.
What would someone learing to drive an Auto be taught?
It didn't seem right to me to hold on the foot brake the whole time and I naturaly slotted it into park, however this led me to think, I see lot's of folk burning the brake lights on such occasions (unknown whether auto or not) but rarely the flash of the reverse lights as an Auto is shifted.
What would someone learing to drive an Auto be taught?
when i hired a car in the states i put it in neutral and put the handbrake on (what i vaguely remembered being procedure for an auto ie same as a manual funnily enough) for about the first five minutes. then just held it on the footbrake as i slipped into a mode of driving as lazy as a native.
then i hired a chevy silverado (smallest vehicle enterprise could offer) and it had a foot parking brake with a lever under the dash you pulled to release it, so any thoughts of putting it on for short stops disappeared completely.
then i hired a chevy silverado (smallest vehicle enterprise could offer) and it had a foot parking brake with a lever under the dash you pulled to release it, so any thoughts of putting it on for short stops disappeared completely.
I am not an advanced driver myself, but whilst perusing an IAM mag someone had left in work yesterday, this very question was answered in the letters page.
Their preferred method is to leave the transmission in drive and hold the car on the handbrake. They said that a properly maintained auto should have no issue with this and the handbrake should be able to hold the car without creep no problem.
Their preferred method is to leave the transmission in drive and hold the car on the handbrake. They said that a properly maintained auto should have no issue with this and the handbrake should be able to hold the car without creep no problem.
With a "convetional" torque-converter auto transmission, for short stops I always apply the handbrake, but leave the selector in D. For a longer stop I'd move the selector to N, or even switch the engine off.
Rospa suggests this: http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/advice/driving/aut...
The owners handbook will probably have advice on what's best (mechanically) when staionary.
Rospa suggests this: http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/advice/driving/aut...
Rospa said:
When stationary in traffic, even for many minutes, it is not necessary to move the gear lever into neutral because the torque converter absorbs the engine’s propulsion force but does not transmit it all to the gearbox. No wear is taking place. In fact, more wear will take place if you engage neutral then engage a drive gear when it is possible to move off.
The recomendations may be different for DSG, CVT or other types of gearbox with no clutch pedal.The owners handbook will probably have advice on what's best (mechanically) when staionary.
My car with DSG.....it stays stopped like a car with the clutch pedal pressed so handbrake on and off when you can move off, press the throttle to move, my Camper with Auto and 4x4 will creep so, dependent on the time I am likely to queue I either "hold" the car on the foot brake or Neutral and Handbrake (I get a transfer box "clunk" when I engage Drive so I usually on this vehicle hold on the foot brake
Volvo with Powershift (like DSG)
OEM advice is treat it like a normal auto, ie stop handbrake on and leave in D. If a very long stop, eg let's say if the road grinds to a complete stop while an incident being cleared then into N or P, though in those circs I'd probably also switch off.
The wet clutch is slightly engaged when the handbrake is on, but doesn't seem to do any harm and never had any overheating.
OEM advice is treat it like a normal auto, ie stop handbrake on and leave in D. If a very long stop, eg let's say if the road grinds to a complete stop while an incident being cleared then into N or P, though in those circs I'd probably also switch off.
The wet clutch is slightly engaged when the handbrake is on, but doesn't seem to do any harm and never had any overheating.
Logic is if you get hit from behind and you're just covering the brake, the impact could mean you inadvertently released your foot, causing the car to move forward, hitting the car in front or being pushed into a junction.
Also, if you're stopped for a while, handbrake on (and in neutral in a manual car) stops you being tense - feet and hands doing nothing.
ETA - It's not to do with warping discs - that's at least as likely to happen if you put the handbrake on very hot discs, hence why you're advised not to use your handbrake when parking the car between sessions at track days.
Also, if you're stopped for a while, handbrake on (and in neutral in a manual car) stops you being tense - feet and hands doing nothing.
ETA - It's not to do with warping discs - that's at least as likely to happen if you put the handbrake on very hot discs, hence why you're advised not to use your handbrake when parking the car between sessions at track days.
Edited by _Neal_ on Wednesday 2nd September 10:24
blank said:
okgo said:
What is wrong with just leaving it in drive and putting your foot on the brake?
Dazzles the people behind you.Can lead to "warped" disks if they are warm.
If someone drives into the back of you you'll shoot off forwards.
Probably some other reasons too...
A brake light hardly dazzles.
Not sure on the discs.
Sounds all a bit pedantic to me..
okgo said:
If a footbrake can stop the car from 150 mph its going to do a better job than the gearbox and handbrake if someone hit you from behind.
Not if your foot comes off the brake, it won't. I appreciate that being hit whilst stationary is rare (which is good!) but every little helps, and if that also means you can relax more whilst at the wheel, surely that's a positive thing?
Oh, and the gearbox doesn't come into it in terms of stopping the car moving if it's hit from behind - a manual will be in neutral, and an auto will either (as discussed above) effectively be in neutral or creeping forward a bit.
Edited by _Neal_ on Wednesday 2nd September 10:30
p1esk said:
John MacK said:
Neutral and apply the handbrake, or keep it in Drive and on the handbrake.
I expect it depends how long you are likely to be stopped.
For a 'stop', leave it in drive and use the parking/hand brake. When a 'stop' becomes a 'wait', shift it to neutral and use the parking/hand brake. In both cases I tend to keep my foot on the brake at least until there is someone behind me.
_Neal_ said:
okgo said:
If a footbrake can stop the car from 150 mph its going to do a better job than the gearbox and handbrake if someone hit you from behind.
Not if your foot comes off the brake, it won't. I appreciate that being hit whilst stationary is rare (which is good!) but every little helps, and if that also means you can relax more whilst at the wheel, surely that's a positive thing?
Oh, and the gearbox doesn't come into it in terms of stopping the car moving if it's hit from behind - a manual will be in neutral, and an auto will either (as discussed above) effectively be in neutral or creeping forward a bit.
Edited by _Neal_ on Wednesday 2nd September 10:30
_Neal_ said:
ETA - It's not to do with warping discs - that's at least as likely to happen if you put the handbrake on very hot discs, hence why you're advised not to use your handbrake when parking the car between sessions at track days.
Most handbrakes work on a drum-in-disk system, so the pads aren't clamping the disk. And if it isn't drum-in-disk, they'll be clamping the rear disks anyway, which will be a lot cooler than the fronts.I think it was Mitsubishi Galants that had a pretty common problem of "warping" (they don't actually warp) the front disks from people sitting on the footbrake.
blank said:
Most handbrakes work on a drum-in-disk system, so the pads aren't clamping the disk. And if it isn't drum-in-disk, they'll be clamping the rear disks anyway, which will be a lot cooler than the fronts.
Yes, but I think the point is that even with drum-in-disc, clamping the handbrake on causes the brake assembly to cool unevenly. If it isn't drum in disc this is exaggerated, and when it clamps on the disc itself you could end up with pads bound to the discs (as well as the uneven cooling). As I say though, this is only really the case if you're driving VERY spiritedly (track days etc) which is made worse by the car you're in running a lot of rear brake bias (e.g. Elises).
Anyway, I do take your point, but not warping the discs has never been a reason I've heard to explain why you should apply the handbrake when stationary on the road. I reckon that if your discs are hot enough from "normal" road use to potentially warp, whether you've got the handbrake on at lights is probably the least of your worries
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