Engineering Doctorate

Engineering Doctorate

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Discussion

M3CHA-MONK3Y

Original Poster:

6,095 posts

196 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
(Mods, I wasn't sure where to put this thread, so feel free to relocate if it's in the wrong section)

I've heard of a few people in the construction industry being Doctors of Engineering and have just read a thread that spoke about a gent who was also a Engineering Doctor.

I'm just about to start my HND in Building
services and wondered whether it was possible to branch into general engineering and take a PhD?

The only problem is, I have a full time job already and although my company wouldn't have a problem sponsoring me through Uni, I'm sure they wouldn't want to lose me for 4 years. Is it possible to do a day release or does it require full-time education?

TIA

rhinochopig

17,932 posts

199 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
Theoretically possible but...

  • Normally a degree entry - either BEng MEng.
  • Need to find someone willing to supervise you - if you're doing it part time.
  • If you're doing it full time you'll need to find funding - can be difficult - and a supervisor and a topic. That said some supervisors will advertise a topic they want researching.
  • Coming from the HND route you may struggle with the write-up / experimental side of things. The degree route does help in terms of the developing your thesis writing skills.
ETA to answer your last question. Possible to go either route - part time or full time. The best way to do a part time is to effectively write up something you're doing for work as part of your job - I know a couple who took this route. If that's not possible, I'd go full time unless you're very good at managing your non-work time and are happy to spend most evenings and weekends working on your thesis.

Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 23 November 11:07


Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 23 November 11:07

drivin_me_nuts

17,949 posts

212 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
Indeed possible.

The thing with undertaking a PhD is knowing exactly why you want to do it in the first place. If it's an ego thing about being called Doctor... then you're in for a hard time of it. If it's because you genuinely have a passion for the research then it will make the dedication so much more bearable.

I have seen and known many people go through the stress of a PhD and the thesis and research is te easy bit, (and quite a few I know have written up theirs between 3 and 6 months start to submission)it's justifying the time and commitment that you need to be able to do.

jshell

11,032 posts

206 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
Why would you want a PhD in Engineering, unless you want to be a research scientist? If you do, fair play.

If you want to go into 'Engineering', a PhD will likely hold you back from many jobs outside of pure research.

An MSc would be a better choice.


Engineer1

10,486 posts

210 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
A Phd can guarantee you a safe job for as long as the research you have done is commercial, but you are then virtually unemployable outside of that specialty. A well chosen project at Beng or Msc is more likely to stand you in good stead followed by a place on a graduate scheme.

rhinochopig

17,932 posts

199 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
Because chicks love a doctor chaps!

M3CHA-MONK3Y

Original Poster:

6,095 posts

196 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
Cheers for the information, quite a lot to mull over there.
I was looking at a PhD because it's really the highest level you can achieve academically for a trade. I have a great love for engineering, be it Construction, Automotive, Aerospace or even making lawnmowers. The whole field fascinates me.

I haven't heard of an MSc, I'll jump onto google later and do a bit of reading.

Thanks again

jshell

11,032 posts

206 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
Master of Science is a little more hands on. PhD is research only so you just have to choose best route for you!

rhinochopig

17,932 posts

199 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
jshell said:
Master of Science is a little more hands on. PhD is research only so you just have to choose best route for you!
TBH I'd debate even that. Most MEng/MSc lads I've had working for me are useless when it comes to applying that knowledge. They know the theory well enough, but haven't a clue when it comes to how it's applied in a commercial environment.

mustard tab

293 posts

178 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
a PhD is a lot of work, the research can take years and is extremely in depth as you have to significantly add to the body of knowledge on the subject, and dont think its easy to select a subject from your work as a work investigation project is not the same as PhD research, different constraints and requirements.
i am in my last year of doing an MSc in Technology Management, and got accepted with many years experience as a design engineer and an HNC, all done part time over the last 3.5 years.
you have to be very clear on what you want out of this, studying part time is very doable BUT you have to be disciplined and motivated, theres nothing worse than having to finish an assignment in the summer when youve had a pants week at work and the mates/missus fancies a spell up the boozer on a sunny sunday afternoon and you have to stop in and work, this will happen every weekend during the summer and most weekday evenings. on the plus side you will have a usable qualification, and be able to demonstrate resourcefulness, dedication and commitment to a prospective employer.
if an MSc is not as high as you would like, then go for and MBA in your subject, again IMHO more usable than a PhD.
HTH

Liszt

4,329 posts

271 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
Do a BEng and then look at Chatered Engineering status. You get to put a CEng after your name and is more industry applicable that a Phd.

stefd

290 posts

229 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
Liszt said:
Do a BEng and then look at Chatered Engineering status. You get to put a CEng after your name and is more industry applicable that a Phd.
If you're in Building Services you'll need more than a BEng to guarantee chartership (CIBSE or EI). Can't comment on other fields.

911newbie

598 posts

261 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
Just as a gentle correction to the earlier comment about being virtually unemployable outside your field with a PhD, and about it being a hindrance.

That's not quite my experience, since the skills involved in getting a PhD are very readily applied in a range of roles. I know of lots of people with a PhD who have went on to get jobs in roles that didn't neccessarily require a PhD. In fact, I'd suggest that those skills might well put you at a significant advantage vis a vis others with only a UG degree.

There are many jobs which do require a PhD, not as many as require a UG degree, but lots nevertheless. Usually these jobs are in R&D and involve a good range of technical knowledge, obviously. You'd be surprised how large the R&D sector is in the UK, it's just it never gets talked about. A PhD is v well regarded in R&D in the US, and they put far more money into it than we do.

It is quite possible to go from employment in research in universities to R&D in industry, and vice versa.

I would perhaps suggest that you consider a PhD when you have had a numbver of years of undergraduate study under you belt, and then chat to some people who are studying and people who have studied a PhD. Make sure it is the right thing for you.

Chris

Liszt

4,329 posts

271 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
stefd said:
Liszt said:
Do a BEng and then look at Chatered Engineering status. You get to put a CEng after your name and is more industry applicable that a Phd.
If you're in Building Services you'll need more than a BEng to guarantee chartership (CIBSE or EI). Can't comment on other fields.
I did my BEng a while back so not sure on the current requirements. Could still do it but don't really work in engineering anymore

L1OFF

3,364 posts

257 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
Liszt said:
stefd said:
Liszt said:
Do a BEng and then look at Chatered Engineering status. You get to put a CEng after your name and is more industry applicable that a Phd.
If you're in Building Services you'll need more than a BEng to guarantee chartership (CIBSE or EI). Can't comment on other fields.
I did my BEng a while back so not sure on the current requirements. Could still do it but don't really work in engineering anymore
The IET look for an approved course at Masters level for membership and therefore Engineering Council chartership. (apart from the mature entry route)

Engineer1

10,486 posts

210 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
The various Institutions have been pissing arround with the qualifications required and the methods of achieving chartered status, I really should look at whether I can get chartered status, but then I haven't done real engineering for a while.

DJC

23,563 posts

237 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
M3CHA-MONK3Y said:
Cheers for the information, quite a lot to mull over there.
I was looking at a PhD because it's really the highest level you can achieve academically for a trade. I have a great love for engineering, be it Construction, Automotive, Aerospace or even making lawnmowers. The whole field fascinates me.

I haven't heard of an MSc, I'll jump onto google later and do a bit of reading.

Thanks again
Your profile says you are an engineer, you are only just starting a HND and you havent heard of a Masters.

Er, how long have you been in the profession?

crofty1984

15,873 posts

205 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
M3CHA-MONK3Y said:
I have a great love for engineering, be it Construction, Automotive, Aerospace or even making lawnmowers.
Taking a degree in Engineering will certainly cure that.
(Cynical today)

Liszt

4,329 posts

271 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
L1OFF said:
Liszt said:
stefd said:
Liszt said:
Do a BEng and then look at Chatered Engineering status. You get to put a CEng after your name and is more industry applicable that a Phd.
If you're in Building Services you'll need more than a BEng to guarantee chartership (CIBSE or EI). Can't comment on other fields.
I did my BEng a while back so not sure on the current requirements. Could still do it but don't really work in engineering anymore
The IET look for an approved course at Masters level for membership and therefore Engineering Council chartership. (apart from the mature entry route)
Ah, when it was the IEE my BEng was an approved entry course.

M3CHA-MONK3Y

Original Poster:

6,095 posts

196 months

Monday 23rd November 2009
quotequote all
DJC said:
M3CHA-MONK3Y said:
Cheers for the information, quite a lot to mull over there.
I was looking at a PhD because it's really the highest level you can achieve academically for a trade. I have a great love for engineering, be it Construction, Automotive, Aerospace or even making lawnmowers. The whole field fascinates me.

I haven't heard of an MSc, I'll jump onto google later and do a bit of reading.

Thanks again
Your profile says you are an engineer, you are only just starting a HND and you havent heard of a Masters.

Er, how long have you been in the profession?
Ah, I've heard of a Masters but didn't recognise the abbreviation.
I've been in the trade 4 years now, starting on a HVAC Building Services course and just looking to build on that when I've finished it to a Degree level.