787 about to fly?

[fatboy b]

Word from the inside is the 18th Dec...

Linky

[baldy1926]

did they mention if its this year or next:Das there have been so many delays

[Mojocvh]

Stay lucky.

[Waynester]

What is so special about it? Next step in aviation technology?

[Trooper2]

Waynester said:

What is so special about it?

The Chinese no longer order Boeing jets full of bicycles, now the want them filled with cars and SUVs.

[Papoo]

Waynester said:

What is so special about it? Next step in aviation technology?

Efficiency, mainly. It's the first all new jet in this size category for a very long time, and technology has done some advancing, as you would have hoped. Composite technology, wing technology, engines etc... all just a nice step forward, the end result being something so efficient, it may be able to crush the competition when it comes to ticket & servicing costs. The Airbus A350 is next, it should be a good contest.

Same thing is happening in the regional jet market in the US; the Dash 8 Q400 (what FlyBe operate) is comparitively brand spankers compared to the ageing CRJ fleet that has been the regional staple for most operators. The advancement in technology/efficiency in the Q400 has meant that they have left the competition for dead, the CRJ simply can't compete.

It's quite Darwinian, and I'd think airlines operating this size of aircraft would be wise to bite the bullet and get their hands on a few. The long term benefit will be enormous, when comparing it to the ageing (but beautiful) 757/767. In my opinion, and probably most importantly, it's also the best looking passenger jet since the release of the B757-200.

[S3_Graham]

Papoo said:

Waynester said:

What is so special about it? Next step in aviation technology?

Efficiency, mainly. It's the first all new jet in this size category for a very long time, and technology has done some advancing, as you would have hoped. Composite technology, wing technology, engines etc... all just a nice step forward, the end result being something so efficient, it may be able to crush the competition when it comes to ticket & servicing costs. The Airbus A350 is next, it should be a good contest.

Same thing is happening in the regional jet market in the US; the Dash 8 Q400 (what FlyBe operate) is comparitively brand spankers compared to the ageing CRJ fleet that has been the regional staple for most operators. The advancement in technology/efficiency in the Q400 has meant that they have left the competition for dead, the CRJ simply can't compete.

It's quite Darwinian, and I'd think airlines operating this size of aircraft would be wise to bite the bullet and get their hands on a few. The long term benefit will be enormous, when comparing it to the ageing (but beautiful) 757/767. In my opinion, and probably most importantly, it's also the best looking passenger jet since the release of the B757-200.

does the use of lots more composite worry you slightly though??

What happens when the inevitable happens... johnny dont care rams his catering truck into the side... its not quite as simple as shoving some speed tape over it and keep on trucking till your back at base!

[williamp]

At the time, people were talking about this v the A380, as which would herald the future of air travel- one the very large, more conventional design, the other smaller, very complex.

There was lots of criticism about the delays for the A380, but it first flew 3 years ago and isnow in service. the Dreamliner has yet to fly.

[navier_stokes]

williamp said:

At the time, people were talking about this v the A380, as which would herald the future of air travel- one the very large, more conventional design, the other smaller, very complex.

There was lots of criticism about the delays for the A380, but it first flew 3 years ago and isnow in service. the Dreamliner has yet to fly.

Yes but Airbus have the A350 which will be competing directly with the 787.

Boeing usually has a much shorter test duration (maiden flight to in-service flight) for it's planes, compared to Airbus, but the 787 has been delayed 2 years and the pressure is even greater to have a shorter test period - if they find there's need for any large changes, there's not going to be much room to maneuver!

[Papoo]

S3_Graham said:

Papoo said:

Waynester said:

What is so special about it? Next step in aviation technology?

Efficiency, mainly. It's the first all new jet in this size category for a very long time, and technology has done some advancing, as you would have hoped. Composite technology, wing technology, engines etc... all just a nice step forward, the end result being something so efficient, it may be able to crush the competition when it comes to ticket & servicing costs. The Airbus A350 is next, it should be a good contest.

Same thing is happening in the regional jet market in the US; the Dash 8 Q400 (what FlyBe operate) is comparitively brand spankers compared to the ageing CRJ fleet that has been the regional staple for most operators. The advancement in technology/efficiency in the Q400 has meant that they have left the competition for dead, the CRJ simply can't compete.

It's quite Darwinian, and I'd think airlines operating this size of aircraft would be wise to bite the bullet and get their hands on a few. The long term benefit will be enormous, when comparing it to the ageing (but beautiful) 757/767. In my opinion, and probably most importantly, it's also the best looking passenger jet since the release of the B757-200.

does the use of lots more composite worry you slightly though??

What happens when the inevitable happens... johnny dont care rams his catering truck into the side... its not quite as simple as shoving some speed tape over it and keep on trucking till your back at base!

Not particularly, if I'm honest. If I remember rightly, the 787 is 80% composite by volume, so it's not like composite parts can be 'hidden away' from potential damage from ground crew/birds etc. That said, it is vital to maintain the integrity of the skin of all pressurized aircraft, composite or otherwise, but I do see your point about the way weaknesses/razier(sp) can have a more profound effect/outcome on something like carbon fibre.

I'll be interested to read it's testing progress as it unfolds. I think the 787 marks a whole new era in aircraft construction, and ultimately (with help from the A350), will have a big effect on the airline industry. It's the first time since becoming a pilot, that I have been truly excited about a new passenger jet, or airine production as a whole.

The Embraer Phenom is a small business jet which has just been released, similar composite proportions, very clever aerodynamics, very simple cockpit, akin to that of a modern light aircraft. I'll be interested to see how mass proportions of composites work out, with regard to what you said, S3.

[TimJMS]

Don't carbon / composites tend to shatter when stuck by lightning? I'd be much more worried about that than some muppet on the ground with a luggage truck.

[Papoo]

I'm no physicist, but an aircraft 'immunises' itself to lightning by being it's own Farraday cage. I suspect measures have been implemented into this design to ensure the same.

If not, you'd have to be a tad concerned.

[navier_stokes]

S3_Graham said:

Papoo said:

Waynester said:

What is so special about it? Next step in aviation technology?

Efficiency, mainly. It's the first all new jet in this size category for a very long time, and technology has done some advancing, as you would have hoped. Composite technology, wing technology, engines etc... all just a nice step forward, the end result being something so efficient, it may be able to crush the competition when it comes to ticket & servicing costs. The Airbus A350 is next, it should be a good contest.

Same thing is happening in the regional jet market in the US; the Dash 8 Q400 (what FlyBe operate) is comparitively brand spankers compared to the ageing CRJ fleet that has been the regional staple for most operators. The advancement in technology/efficiency in the Q400 has meant that they have left the competition for dead, the CRJ simply can't compete.

It's quite Darwinian, and I'd think airlines operating this size of aircraft would be wise to bite the bullet and get their hands on a few. The long term benefit will be enormous, when comparing it to the ageing (but beautiful) 757/767. In my opinion, and probably most importantly, it's also the best looking passenger jet since the release of the B757-200.

does the use of lots more composite worry you slightly though??

What happens when the inevitable happens... johnny dont care rams his catering truck into the side... its not quite as simple as shoving some speed tape over it and keep on trucking till your back at base!

Composites are the big reason for the delay. They didn't get it right around the wing root/fuselage - lets hope they've now got it right, I don't want to see any wings falling off!

[dr_gn]

Papoo said:

I'm no physicist, but an aircraft 'immunises' itself to lightning by being it's own Farraday cage. I suspect measures have been implemented into this design to ensure the same.

If not, you'd have to be a tad concerned.

The main method is the use of a metal mesh in the outer layers of composite, in order to spread the area of potential damage.

[eccles]

TimJMS said:

Don't carbon / composites tend to shatter when stuck by lightning? I'd be much more worried about that than some muppet on the ground with a luggage truck.

Do you really think they'd make an aircraft out of carbon/composites if that was true?

[xxplod]

Friend of mine is an engineer for RR working on the 787's engines. He told me not to fly on one until he said so. Lots of probs with the engines during the development I understand.

[Papoo]

xxplod said:

Friend of mine is an engineer for RR working on the 787's engines. He told me not to fly on one until he said so. Lots of probs with the engines during the development I understand.

Sounds a little sensationalist to me. Every system of every aircraft in development has problems. That's why they have a period of development.

It will have undergone 1800+ ours minimum testing in actual flight tests, on overweight aircraft, under conditions beyond that of airline operation before you'll be able to book a seat to Dubai. Fingers crossed, eh?

[xxplod]

To be fair, he did say that the last time the 787 was rumoured to be close to delivery (c12 months ago) before delays were announced. Real challenges getting the required efficiency and thrust.

[TimJMS]

eccles said:

TimJMS said:

Don't carbon / composites tend to shatter when stuck by lightning? I'd be much more worried about that than some muppet on the ground with a luggage truck.

Do you really think they'd make an aircraft out of carbon/composites if that was true?

I'm no technical expert on the subject of delamination of carbon composite structures exposed to extreme heat but hopefully Boeing will solve the problem. The path of true progress is never easy. They have already managed to get the FAA to relax certain safety regs just for the 787 already. I'm sure it'll be made safe before release into service. Boeing hardly want a Comet on their hands.

[mybrainhurts]

When it rains, does it turn into a Wetdreamliner...?




Boom and, indeed, Boom...