So what is this plasma calibration/optimisation ye speak of?
Discussion
Basics and a bit more http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-televisions/...
AVForums G10 thread http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-televisions/...
AVForums G10 thread http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-televisions/...
Proper calibration can only be done by someone with the correct equipment and expertise, ie not something you do yourself.
You can get calibration DVDs etc that put various display patterns on screen which you then adjust the settings until certain bits become visible / disappear etc, not sure how good they are though.
Failing that its a simple matter of looking online for suggested settings then playing around those to suit your personal taste and room conditions etc. There's a G10 optimal settings thread on the same forum as linked to above which is of limited use as each panel will be slightly different, as will personal preference and room lighting etc. I did use it to get a start point for my G10 though, from memory I set viewing mode to Cinema and Colour balance to Warm, then colour, contrast and brightness somewhere around or just below 50% and sharpness about 30%. Make sure all the other "aids" are set to off, including Intelligent Frame Creation which is in the Setup - Other Settings menu.
You can get calibration DVDs etc that put various display patterns on screen which you then adjust the settings until certain bits become visible / disappear etc, not sure how good they are though.
Failing that its a simple matter of looking online for suggested settings then playing around those to suit your personal taste and room conditions etc. There's a G10 optimal settings thread on the same forum as linked to above which is of limited use as each panel will be slightly different, as will personal preference and room lighting etc. I did use it to get a start point for my G10 though, from memory I set viewing mode to Cinema and Colour balance to Warm, then colour, contrast and brightness somewhere around or just below 50% and sharpness about 30%. Make sure all the other "aids" are set to off, including Intelligent Frame Creation which is in the Setup - Other Settings menu.
Edited by LocoBlade on Tuesday 29th December 00:00
There is a good tutorial and downloadable test patterns here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=94...
As said above, not as good as professional calibration, but allows you to get a very reasonable set up that is way better than the out of the box settings.
Only takes 30 mins or so - well worth the effort IMHO.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=94...
As said above, not as good as professional calibration, but allows you to get a very reasonable set up that is way better than the out of the box settings.
Only takes 30 mins or so - well worth the effort IMHO.
Edited by FunkyGibbon on Tuesday 29th December 09:30
Just to say that you can do this yourself, but it does require a sensor and software, plus a big learning curve. It is also not limited to just Plasma TVs, all types including projectors can be calibrated, but the accuracy of the end results depends on the controls available in the set, the skill of the opperator and the accuracy of the tools used.
I use the above linked AVS709 disc to calibrate my TV and projector. However, before I get the sensor out and fire up the software, just using the patterns in the 'basic' section to set up the contrast and brightness controls to the optimum values is a great starting point. Even if this was all you did at least it is a start. The other good tip is to read the appropriate Owners thread on AVForums and see if there is a recommended colour temperature setting that is close to 6500K (the usual target for calibrated greyscale). On my old Sony LCD I found that 'Warm2' was closest to 6500K for example. I also turned OFF most of the 'advanced' settings like 'Black corrector', 'Clear White' and 'Contrast Enhancer'.
To adjust greyscale, gamma and colour gamut requires a sensor and software. I've got my own, but it is not as good as a professional model, however it does seem to give good results certainly better than by eye. Like all things AV though you can get sucked into it and end up spending more moeny than some plasmas cost, so I've stuck with my i1, though I recently bought some software (Chromapure) you can manage with free 'HFCR'.
My TV is pretty outdated by today's standards (I'm planing on getting a 46" Panasonic G15 later this year) but after calibration (which also meant going into the service menu, so not something you do lightly) this TV is now virtually spot on in terms of greyscale and gamma (6500K and 2.2 respectively) and gives a surprisingly good picture. You should be aware though that some TVs don't have any great control over the colour gamut, so it might not be possible to get truely accurate colours without an external CMS/Video processor, which will likely cost as much as the TV, so unless you already have one (like I have for my projector) then for 100% accurate results you need to choose a TV that will allow all the parameters to be adjusted correctly......very few do, though some are at least reasonably close to start with.
I've attached my before and after plots for the greyscale: You can see that there was not enough red in the picture and too much blue to start with, which doesn't make the image look as realistic as it might. Also, because colour 'sits' on top of the greyscale it helps to get this foundation right before the colour is adjusted (if controls allow).
I use the above linked AVS709 disc to calibrate my TV and projector. However, before I get the sensor out and fire up the software, just using the patterns in the 'basic' section to set up the contrast and brightness controls to the optimum values is a great starting point. Even if this was all you did at least it is a start. The other good tip is to read the appropriate Owners thread on AVForums and see if there is a recommended colour temperature setting that is close to 6500K (the usual target for calibrated greyscale). On my old Sony LCD I found that 'Warm2' was closest to 6500K for example. I also turned OFF most of the 'advanced' settings like 'Black corrector', 'Clear White' and 'Contrast Enhancer'.
To adjust greyscale, gamma and colour gamut requires a sensor and software. I've got my own, but it is not as good as a professional model, however it does seem to give good results certainly better than by eye. Like all things AV though you can get sucked into it and end up spending more moeny than some plasmas cost, so I've stuck with my i1, though I recently bought some software (Chromapure) you can manage with free 'HFCR'.
My TV is pretty outdated by today's standards (I'm planing on getting a 46" Panasonic G15 later this year) but after calibration (which also meant going into the service menu, so not something you do lightly) this TV is now virtually spot on in terms of greyscale and gamma (6500K and 2.2 respectively) and gives a surprisingly good picture. You should be aware though that some TVs don't have any great control over the colour gamut, so it might not be possible to get truely accurate colours without an external CMS/Video processor, which will likely cost as much as the TV, so unless you already have one (like I have for my projector) then for 100% accurate results you need to choose a TV that will allow all the parameters to be adjusted correctly......very few do, though some are at least reasonably close to start with.
I've attached my before and after plots for the greyscale: You can see that there was not enough red in the picture and too much blue to start with, which doesn't make the image look as realistic as it might. Also, because colour 'sits' on top of the greyscale it helps to get this foundation right before the colour is adjusted (if controls allow).
Edited by OldSkoolRS on Tuesday 29th December 10:56
Edited by OldSkoolRS on Tuesday 29th December 11:00
OldSkoolRS said:
My TV is pretty outdated by today's standards (I'm planing on getting a 46" Panasonic G15 later this year)
Will you be going into the service menu to calibrate the G15 seeing as Gamma correction etc isnt in the main menus? If so, do you know of any online instructions for navigating the service menu as its not at all intuitive, and as you say a bit daunting to start off?LocoBlade said:
Will you be going into the service menu to calibrate the G15 seeing as Gamma correction etc isnt in the main menus? If so, do you know of any online instructions for navigating the service menu as its not at all intuitive, and as you say a bit daunting to start off?
I might need to do this, but as I have an external video processor that does 11 point greyscale and gamma correction, I may not need to bother with the Service menu myself. Given that it's very easy to mess things up in some service menus I tend to read up as much as possible first and even then only change values when I know exactly what they do, so I understand your worries.I'll see if I can find anything out and post back, but it's on your own head, etc, etc if you mess anything up....don't blame me.
EDIT: Not much joy, couldn't even download the manual yet, let alone find out about the SM, though I did find out how to get into it, not much use without further info. Someone did mention that there are gamma controls in the user menu, but only for PC inputs, which seems a bit unfortunate.
Edited by OldSkoolRS on Tuesday 29th December 14:45
Cheers, yep I went looking for the gamma settings, I managed to get into the service menu and found some comments on a forum on how to navigate it, but without a list of what each setting does I didnt go investigating any further. The problem is the menus aren't labelled with descriptive labels like Gamma etc, they're just numbers and codes so you need to decipher which code setting you need before you can go and change it, if you so wished.
Its not a good idea to go into a hidden service menu unless you know specifically what you are doing in there, they are hidden for a reason, there are plenty of settings in there that can kill your TV completely. So read up and understand what you are doing before you access the service menu.
Excuse my ignorance, but Why do plasmas, LCDs etc, need all this?
Could they not come with a better initial setup or range of choosable setup settings?
How much would a pro charge?
Do they then set it so that there is a general, sport, movie and gaming option?
Are you able to give any before and after shots? (of the screens rather than graphs?)
just when I thought I had tv stuff cracked..,
Could they not come with a better initial setup or range of choosable setup settings?
How much would a pro charge?
Do they then set it so that there is a general, sport, movie and gaming option?
Are you able to give any before and after shots? (of the screens rather than graphs?)
just when I thought I had tv stuff cracked..,
Locoblade, what does your gamma measure at the moment (I'm presuming you have some kind of sensor and software to check this)? If it's around 2.1 or ideally 2.2 then that should do, especially if you are watching in ambient light. In fact if watching in very bright lighting, then slightly lower gamma can sometimes help, so you might already be at the ideal, without risking TV damage in the SM.
FWIW my existing Sony is very straightforward in that there are only RGB cuts and gains to adjust (if you ignore the first menu page which doesn't have anything that should be changed). Same with my JVC projector; it's well labelled so it's pretty obvious which parts you should stear clear of.
On the subject of G15 TVs are the RGB controls in the user menu to allow greyscale calibration? I can't download the manual for some reason otherwise I'd read up on it myself.
FWIW my existing Sony is very straightforward in that there are only RGB cuts and gains to adjust (if you ignore the first menu page which doesn't have anything that should be changed). Same with my JVC projector; it's well labelled so it's pretty obvious which parts you should stear clear of.
On the subject of G15 TVs are the RGB controls in the user menu to allow greyscale calibration? I can't download the manual for some reason otherwise I'd read up on it myself.
I dont know, to be honest I was considering getting it professionally calibrated so was just looking to see what could be done, as the threads Id read didnt seem to be conclusive as to what could/couldnt be tweaked.
As to the settings in the main menu's its actually pretty limited compared to some, you only get the usual Brightness, Contrast and Colour, plus a viewing mode setting (Cinema/Dynamic etc) and colour balance (normal/warm etc), there's no individual RGB settings though, and no Gamma obviously. According to a few reviews I read though, the European version of the same TV does have white balance settings in the main menus for some inexplicable reason.
As to the settings in the main menu's its actually pretty limited compared to some, you only get the usual Brightness, Contrast and Colour, plus a viewing mode setting (Cinema/Dynamic etc) and colour balance (normal/warm etc), there's no individual RGB settings though, and no Gamma obviously. According to a few reviews I read though, the European version of the same TV does have white balance settings in the main menus for some inexplicable reason.
Thanks Locoblade, sounds like just doing the basic setup and trying the 'Warm' colour temp setting (it's been suggested elsewhere that this is closest to 6500K) might be a good start....the rest would need an ISF guy to sort. Though I'd be surprised if the white balance (RGB cuts and gains) can't be altered in the SM, until we find out what's what in there I'd make do with the above basic setup. You may even find that the gamma is near enough anyway.
TBH, I'm not changing my TV until the new kitchen/dinning room gets finished, so we may actually be talking about the G25 at my usual rate of DIY progress.
As my projector is my main screen for 'serious' viewing then as long as I can get reasonably close using the TV's main controls, then that'll probably do. If I do come across detailed instructions re the SM I'll post back, but I wouldn't try adjusting anything until you do know what's what. There are various threads on the AVSForums with people who've messed up their TVs by using the service menu.
TBH, I'm not changing my TV until the new kitchen/dinning room gets finished, so we may actually be talking about the G25 at my usual rate of DIY progress.
As my projector is my main screen for 'serious' viewing then as long as I can get reasonably close using the TV's main controls, then that'll probably do. If I do come across detailed instructions re the SM I'll post back, but I wouldn't try adjusting anything until you do know what's what. There are various threads on the AVSForums with people who've messed up their TVs by using the service menu.Worth a read if you havent already:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-p42g10...
Sasys the gamma is low on the set they tested, the G10/G15 should be pretty much the same visually and have the same settings I believe, the G15 just adds the VieraCast networking capability and an extra HDMI connection.
Also here's the user manual for mine if you want a nosey
http://dlc.panasonic-europe-service.com/EUDocs/Get...
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-p42g10...
Sasys the gamma is low on the set they tested, the G10/G15 should be pretty much the same visually and have the same settings I believe, the G15 just adds the VieraCast networking capability and an extra HDMI connection.
Also here's the user manual for mine if you want a nosey
http://dlc.panasonic-europe-service.com/EUDocs/Get...
Edited by LocoBlade on Tuesday 29th December 20:12
Thanks, I hadn't read it,the colour balance doesn't seem as far out as mine was before calibration, so maybe it's something most could live with quite happily anyway. Not much you can do about the oversaturated colour gamut though without a CMS, but it ammuses me how these reviews then talk about 'natural-looking colours' in the 'Pro' column, though to be fair very few TVs have an accurate colour gamut out of the box, unfortunately very few have the means to correctly adjust it so you have to set it to the best compromise and leave it there.
That was the same link for the manual as I tried, but when I click on 'I agree' then 'next' it goes to a page that just says there was an error. I'm stuck with IE6 (works PC) so maybe it's that, I'll try IE7 or 8 on another PC I've got.
That was the same link for the manual as I tried, but when I click on 'I agree' then 'next' it goes to a page that just says there was an error. I'm stuck with IE6 (works PC) so maybe it's that, I'll try IE7 or 8 on another PC I've got.
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