Discussion
Ok - you have just found out that the end user of your services has paid their agency
their agency have not paid your agency........
therefore - you have not been paid - and as it is 3 months behind......you are out of pocket for October, November and December (it is only now that you have found out due to payment cycles)
The end user are cutting the agency out of the loop from now - so from January you are getting paid (albeit in another 3 months time)
Therefore not getting paid until March. That is November to March without money (even though January onwards will definitely come to you).
Essentially meaning that there is a good chance that you will lose October, November AND Decembers money....
Would you go......withdraw services.....?
Or stay - and just accept that you may not see that money again.
NOT a good day!
their agency have not paid your agency........
therefore - you have not been paid - and as it is 3 months behind......you are out of pocket for October, November and December (it is only now that you have found out due to payment cycles)
The end user are cutting the agency out of the loop from now - so from January you are getting paid (albeit in another 3 months time)
Therefore not getting paid until March. That is November to March without money (even though January onwards will definitely come to you).
Essentially meaning that there is a good chance that you will lose October, November AND Decembers money....
Would you go......withdraw services.....?
Or stay - and just accept that you may not see that money again.
NOT a good day!
Very tough call; have been there myself.
Depends how badly the end user needs your services. Are you easily replaced?
If you're a tough act to relace, then it's certainly worth having a chat with the local manager an explaining that the contract is too much hassle, because you're not getting paid.
But, it's not their problem, so if you tried to make it their problem, it could be easier for them to drop you.
Has the old agency confirmed that they're definitely not going to pay you?
Other alternative, is to go straight to the County Court for breach of contract.
Depends how badly the end user needs your services. Are you easily replaced?
If you're a tough act to relace, then it's certainly worth having a chat with the local manager an explaining that the contract is too much hassle, because you're not getting paid.
But, it's not their problem, so if you tried to make it their problem, it could be easier for them to drop you.
Has the old agency confirmed that they're definitely not going to pay you?
Other alternative, is to go straight to the County Court for breach of contract.
Why hasnt your existing agency paid you? surely you all agreed payment cycles at the start of the contract? Irrespective of when the end user pays the agency i'd have expected the agency to honour their commitment to you. Certainly thats the risk I take in operating an agency. Our guys are paid monthly irrespective of when we get funds from our clients. So i'd have thought that your oct/nov/dec monies are recoverable.
In terms of working with the end user direct, could you explain to them that as a sole trader you need more realistic pay cycle - that you're not a company that can accept 90 day terms, see if they'll negotiate on that point??
In terms of working with the end user direct, could you explain to them that as a sole trader you need more realistic pay cycle - that you're not a company that can accept 90 day terms, see if they'll negotiate on that point??
Your agency should have paid you regardless. And you should have kicked up a stink quicker.
Sorry, but it sounds like (one of, but probably) your agency is having 'cashflow problems'. They might even be breaking out the life jackets. This happened to a mate, and he got stiffed for the three months.
If you still want to work with the client, approach them direct and insist on monthly payment so you have less at risk.
Best of.
Sorry, but it sounds like (one of, but probably) your agency is having 'cashflow problems'. They might even be breaking out the life jackets. This happened to a mate, and he got stiffed for the three months.
If you still want to work with the client, approach them direct and insist on monthly payment so you have less at risk.
Best of.
s! Not saying they would have survived long term, but perhaps would have for longer had they been paid.You dont work at TTG by any chance do you?! I would withdraw services, and as an agent, if I hadnt been paid by the customer for 3 months I would probably withdraw your services anyway! Mind you, we have the same situation at the moment with a large customer, and because we don't operate "pay when paid", we have paid the contractors for 3 months worth of work but not been paid a jot by the customer. Amounting to something in the region of £100,000 of outstanding invoices that we may not be getting paid on!
The only reason for going with an agency is for early payment. I would never have used an agency that paid so far in arrears.
You have all of the paperwork that confirms that payment is overdue? Issue a winding up order against the agency with which you are directly contracted. Do this now.
I would go talk to the end client. I would want an early payment of the next invoice if they wanted me on site.
I'd be talking to a good Lawyer with copies of my contract and looking at a cease and desist letter to the end client to stop the use of anything you produced which has not been paid for.
Oh, and I'd get this thread moved to 'Business'
You have all of the paperwork that confirms that payment is overdue? Issue a winding up order against the agency with which you are directly contracted. Do this now.
I would go talk to the end client. I would want an early payment of the next invoice if they wanted me on site.
I'd be talking to a good Lawyer with copies of my contract and looking at a cease and desist letter to the end client to stop the use of anything you produced which has not been paid for.
Oh, and I'd get this thread moved to 'Business'
duplicate - apparently the server went too fast round the ethernet, slipped on the ice, bent a core and leaked its bytes all over the road.
Still, someone stuck some radweld in and so with a bit of disc spin and a few passing engineers to push it is back on the info-highway.
Oh, and I'd still get this thread moved to 'Business' - It's commercial debt not employment.
Still, someone stuck some radweld in and so with a bit of disc spin and a few passing engineers to push it is back on the info-highway.
Oh, and I'd still get this thread moved to 'Business' - It's commercial debt not employment.
Edited by TooLateForAName on Thursday 14th January 10:54
TooLateForAName said:
I'd be talking to a good Lawyer with copies of my contract and looking at a cease and desist letter to the end client to stop the use of anything you produced which has not been paid for.
Intersting thought. Do you have any experience of doing this?In this case I wouldn't have thought it would work seeing as the client has actually paid for it.
thanks for all the input.......... 
ok - the reason we didn't notice is because we operate 2 months behind......so essentially the first anyone knew of any issues was not getting paid in December (for October)
Then there was Christmas
Now there is a lot of focus on it - orginal Agency being bypassed from January onwards - so the outstanding is limited to only the three months.
Whether that is just a cashflow issue.....or the lifejackets are coming out we don't know yet. Ofcourse bypassing them - could make their cashflow and problems worse.....but we have to limit the risk.
As a group we aren't prepared to withhold services, as the end user has us going direct from January onwards to protect their Programmes (until the matters are sorted out).
What is TTG? No not with them.
ok - the reason we didn't notice is because we operate 2 months behind......so essentially the first anyone knew of any issues was not getting paid in December (for October)
Then there was Christmas
Now there is a lot of focus on it - orginal Agency being bypassed from January onwards - so the outstanding is limited to only the three months.
Whether that is just a cashflow issue.....or the lifejackets are coming out we don't know yet. Ofcourse bypassing them - could make their cashflow and problems worse.....but we have to limit the risk.
As a group we aren't prepared to withhold services, as the end user has us going direct from January onwards to protect their Programmes (until the matters are sorted out).
What is TTG? No not with them.
zippy3x said:
TooLateForAName said:
I'd be talking to a good Lawyer with copies of my contract and looking at a cease and desist letter to the end client to stop the use of anything you produced which has not been paid for.
Intersting thought. Do you have any experience of doing this?In this case I wouldn't have thought it would work seeing as the client has actually paid for it.
I'm afraid that due to server glitches while I was posting (and reposting and trying to edit) that my response comes across as a bit more strident than intended - the first time I responded I had a bit more in about contract stuff/relationship etc. Lots depends on the contracts in place - when I saw it done the contracts were all around deliverables rather than x days work (customisations to a system) and the developer had a 'its mine until I'm paid' type clause in the contract. In effect the client did not acquire the rights just by paying their agent(consultancy in the case I saw) because the ownership rights/license didn't pass down the chain until the developer received payment. The Client didnt know this until they received the letter. (What's that brown smelly stuff on the fan?)
In the OPs case I certainly would be going to winding up on the agent concerned. It doesn't cost much and does force them to cough up *if* they are in a position to do so. Of course if they are going bust anyway then it won't make much difference but will stop them ripping off anyone else.
If the OP posts in Business then I'd expect someone like Eric to run through the process. Again I've not done it but I've seen other people do it. Some got paid immediately but one lost everything because the agent went down (they were not the only one to start action).
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