Why are the Tories the best!
Discussion
Good afternoon all!
There has been much political debate on here with the run up to the election and it very much appears that the PH majority are of the Conservative persuasion!
The question I ask is why should I vote Tory? Why are they the best bet? What are they going to do for me? This is not a dig at the Conservative, it’s just I would like to hear from people who understand the Party rather than all the media bulls
t! I'd like to know why they are good not how crap the others are!
Where I live is supposedly a safe Lib Dem seat (Cornwall), but I'm just not convinced by them! They appear to have some very good ideas, but also some amazingly stupid ones too!
What’s the best vote to get rid of Gordy!
Cheers!
There has been much political debate on here with the run up to the election and it very much appears that the PH majority are of the Conservative persuasion!
The question I ask is why should I vote Tory? Why are they the best bet? What are they going to do for me? This is not a dig at the Conservative, it’s just I would like to hear from people who understand the Party rather than all the media bulls
t! I'd like to know why they are good not how crap the others are!Where I live is supposedly a safe Lib Dem seat (Cornwall), but I'm just not convinced by them! They appear to have some very good ideas, but also some amazingly stupid ones too!
What’s the best vote to get rid of Gordy!
Cheers!
Historically I guess labour represented the working class with deep trade union roots and conservatives the more professional classes and the sdp / libs were somewhere in between.
The problem now is that they are all a buggers muddle and spinning to try and be all things to all people.
However looking beneath the surface I would say that labour have slipped from looking after the working class to the not working class and those who think that they have a 'right or expectation' to a certain standard of life and benefits. They have become massively controlling and created a hugely wasteful, inefficient public sctor and done nothing to create wealth for the country - just spend it and increase the burden on existing resources by unconstrained imigration.
Conservatives are too often seen or portrayed to be looking after the minority of super rich and themselves and quality in shadow cabinet seems very weak. I think Cameron and Osbourne are seen as toffs (rightly or wrongly) and in it for themselves so not trusted. Unfortunately Cameron is too much sales and not enough substance for many.
I just wish we could have a party that clearly articulated what I would say were old fashioned basic values in the UK and common sense. That is:
Good education for all
Work hard to succeed
Wealth creation and aspiration to better yourself
Encourage entrpreneurs and business
Personal accountability and responsibility
Fair taxation and looking after those in their moment of need
Efficient and accessible public services
... but not supporting those that are just bone idle, lazy and creating a controlling superstate
This should be the assumed moderate conservative approach and therefore attractive to most hard working people such as those on pistonheads but it's not yet clear whether this is the case.
The problem now is that they are all a buggers muddle and spinning to try and be all things to all people.
However looking beneath the surface I would say that labour have slipped from looking after the working class to the not working class and those who think that they have a 'right or expectation' to a certain standard of life and benefits. They have become massively controlling and created a hugely wasteful, inefficient public sctor and done nothing to create wealth for the country - just spend it and increase the burden on existing resources by unconstrained imigration.
Conservatives are too often seen or portrayed to be looking after the minority of super rich and themselves and quality in shadow cabinet seems very weak. I think Cameron and Osbourne are seen as toffs (rightly or wrongly) and in it for themselves so not trusted. Unfortunately Cameron is too much sales and not enough substance for many.
I just wish we could have a party that clearly articulated what I would say were old fashioned basic values in the UK and common sense. That is:
Good education for all
Work hard to succeed
Wealth creation and aspiration to better yourself
Encourage entrpreneurs and business
Personal accountability and responsibility
Fair taxation and looking after those in their moment of need
Efficient and accessible public services
... but not supporting those that are just bone idle, lazy and creating a controlling superstate
This should be the assumed moderate conservative approach and therefore attractive to most hard working people such as those on pistonheads but it's not yet clear whether this is the case.
Edited by XTR2Turbo on Thursday 22 April 18:23
MonkeyMatt said:
What are they going to do for me?
if you work for a living hopefully tax you less than the others. if you scrounge for a living or work for the state hopefully pay you less.XTR2Turbo said:
I just wish we could have a party that clearly articulated what I would say were old fashioned basic values in the UK and common sense. That is:
Good education for all
Work hard to succeed
Wealth creation and aspiration to better yourself
Encourage entrpreneurs and business
Personal accountability and responsibility
Fair taxation and looking after those in their moment of need
Efficient and accessible public services
... but not supporting those that are just bone idle, lazy and creating a controlling superstate
xtr2 for pm Good education for all
Work hard to succeed
Wealth creation and aspiration to better yourself
Encourage entrpreneurs and business
Personal accountability and responsibility
Fair taxation and looking after those in their moment of need
Efficient and accessible public services
... but not supporting those that are just bone idle, lazy and creating a controlling superstate
or at the very least transport minister
Edited by fbrs on Thursday 22 April 18:36
fbrs said:
MonkeyMatt said:
What are they going to do for me?
if you work for a living hopefully tax you less than the others. if you scrounge for a living or work for the state hopefully pay you less.XTR2Turbo said:
I just wish we could have a party that clearly articulated what I would say were old fashioned basic values in the UK and common sense. That is:
Good education for all
Work hard to succeed
Wealth creation and aspiration to better yourself
Encourage entrpreneurs and business
Personal accountability and responsibility
Fair taxation and looking after those in their moment of need
Efficient and accessible public services
... but not supporting those that are just bone idle, lazy and creating a controlling superstate
xtr2 for pm Good education for all
Work hard to succeed
Wealth creation and aspiration to better yourself
Encourage entrpreneurs and business
Personal accountability and responsibility
Fair taxation and looking after those in their moment of need
Efficient and accessible public services
... but not supporting those that are just bone idle, lazy and creating a controlling superstate
or at the very least transport minister
MonkeyMatt said:
So are the Torries the best for me?
to be honest i have no idea, guess it depends if you get a job or not. the reason the economy is screwed in the 1st place is the total economic mismanagement of this government. (the national debt had already doubled before the recession!). the choice is more brown (who caused this), libdem (even more taxes and even higher welfare) or tory (blah). given the pathetic choices im voting blah. the last time labour were in power they bankrupted the country too and we ended up on our knees begging for handouts from the IMF, the torys picked up the pieces then, i just hope they have the balls to do it again.Edited by fbrs on Thursday 22 April 20:04
Jasandjules said:
NoNeed said:
They arn't.
They are just the best of the biggest parties that have a chance.
The least terrible. They are just the best of the biggest parties that have a chance.
And I am hoping that the "green" s***e will slowly go off boil if/when they get elected.
The trouble with all this green bullshyte, when you come down to individual people level, is that it involves raising taxes one way or another. A political party could have had half a chance of getting away with that at any time up to the autumn of 2008.
In a recssion and a financial meltdown, with taxes going up anyway whoever wins the election, there aint going to be much spare to fund green issues.
Matt Black said:
I think the Tories will financially cripple some families if they get in as I think they'll bump interest rates up again like last time, there is no good party to vote for IMHO, scary times ahead 
jesus christ. where do i start? firstly the chancellor hasn't set interest rates for 13 years, the bank of england does and it has one mandate; to target cpi (set by brown at 2%). cpi currently at 3.1% so unless you think its going lower its an inevitability that rates will be going up at some point. secondly the BOE is going to try to hold off hiking until the economy is showing clear signs of recovery so you are berating whichever party gets in for the economy getting better!!!base rates are about 4.5% below recent average (last 10 years), if you can only just service your debt with base rates at 0.5% i'm sorry but you've got very big problems completely regardless of who gets in.
Edited by fbrs on Friday 23 April 00:02
Matt Black said:
I think the Tories will financially cripple some families if they get in as I think they'll bump interest rates up again like last time, there is no good party to vote for IMHO, scary times ahead
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ladybird+book+of+politicsfbrs said:
Matt Black said:
I think the Tories will financially cripple some families if they get in as I think they'll bump interest rates up again like last time, there is no good party to vote for IMHO, scary times ahead
jesus christ. where do i start? firstly the chancellor hasn't set interest rates for 13 years, the bank of england does and it has one mandate; to target cpi (set by brown at 2%). cpi currently at 3.1% so unless you think its going lower its an inevitability that rates will be going up at some point. secondly the BOE is going to try to hold off hiking until the economy is showing clear signs of getting better so you are berating whichever party gets in for the economy getting better!!!rypt said:
That BS though, Brown has direct control over CPI via fuel duty and so on ... so he can influence whether the rates are likely to rise or fall
ffs of course the government can effect cpi. obviously fiscal and monetary policy both effect inflation. are you seriously suggesting a tory government will hike fuel tax and VAT in order to increase CPI to force the Bank of England to hike rates? WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT? so that they have to pay higher coupons on 200bn of index linked debt or so they have to pay higher index linked public sector pensions? maybe you're suggesting the next government, whoever, will cut duty and vat to force the BOE to cut rates to zero? interest rates are the means to an end (controlling inflation), not the end. what exactly are you saying is BS?
Edited by fbrs on Friday 23 April 01:36
fbrs said:
rypt said:
fbrs said:
Matt Black said:
I think the Tories will financially cripple some families if they get in as I think they'll bump interest rates up again like last time, there is no good party to vote for IMHO, scary times ahead
jesus christ. where do i start? firstly the chancellor hasn't set interest rates for 13 years, the bank of england does and it has one mandate; to target cpi (set by brown at 2%). cpi currently at 3.1% so unless you think its going lower its an inevitability that rates will be going up at some point. secondly the BOE is going to try to hold off hiking until the economy is showing clear signs of getting better so you are berating whichever party gets in for the economy getting better!!!what exactly are you saying is BS?
Tory policy has varied widely over the years with regard to specifics.
You shouldn't look too closely at "policy". What matters more is "philospophy".
Traditionally the Conservatives are philospohically wedded to the idea of the individual being the most important rather than the state. Hence they tend to prefer policies where the individual has more freedoms AND responsibilities rather than fewer.
If you think that "Something Must Be Done" and it's "The Government's Job" to do it then you should vote Labour - as they will want to employ public servants to do it.
If you think "Surely it's my choice" then consider the Conservatives.
As always you will be able to find exceptions. IMO these prove the rule.
You shouldn't look too closely at "policy". What matters more is "philospophy".
Traditionally the Conservatives are philospohically wedded to the idea of the individual being the most important rather than the state. Hence they tend to prefer policies where the individual has more freedoms AND responsibilities rather than fewer.
If you think that "Something Must Be Done" and it's "The Government's Job" to do it then you should vote Labour - as they will want to employ public servants to do it.
If you think "Surely it's my choice" then consider the Conservatives.
As always you will be able to find exceptions. IMO these prove the rule.
Don said:
If you think that "Something Must Be Done" and it's "The Government's Job" to do it then you should vote Labour - as they will want to employ public servants to do it.
If you think "Surely it's my choice" then consider the Conservatives.
As always you will be able to find exceptions. IMO these prove the rule.
This is what I'm banking on.If you think "Surely it's my choice" then consider the Conservatives.
As always you will be able to find exceptions. IMO these prove the rule.
I really hope the Tories, if they get in, follow through with their pre-election mantra of reducing the state and increasing local powers, etc.
But, 13 years under a lying Labour government doesn't instill me with much faith that any party will actually do what they are saying.
NoNeed said:
They arn't.
They are just the best of the biggest parties that have a chance.
The debate is going off at a tangent. The best answer to the OP's question was, IMHO, the first one.They are just the best of the biggest parties that have a chance.
To use a motoring analogy - we are on PH after all - It's like buying a car, there's what's the best and what you can realistically afford and is available. Hence why I do not own a 1950's Le Mans D-type Jaguar.
I can barely bring myself to vote Conservative (still very much 'wanting' to vote UKIP), but may amend this decision nearer the time. However, of the TV policial parties, they are the best by a mile in terms of being fit to run the country.
Digga said:
NoNeed said:
They arn't.
They are just the best of the biggest parties that have a chance.
The debate is going off at a tangent. The best answer to the OP's question was, IMHO, the first one.They are just the best of the biggest parties that have a chance.
To use a motoring analogy - we are on PH after all - It's like buying a car, there's what's the best and what you can realistically afford and is available. Hence why I do not own a 1950's Le Mans D-type Jaguar.
I can barely bring myself to vote Conservative (still very much 'wanting' to vote UKIP), but may amend this decision nearer the time. However, of the TV policial parties, they are the best by a mile in terms of being fit to run the country.
I, personally, cannot see labour winning this election. I think we are going to get either Tory victory or a hung parliament.
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