Slicks vs. prodn race tyres
Discussion
Can anyone provide an opinion (based on experience) of whether slicks offer significantly more grip than prodn race tyres tyres like K1/K2 racetecs, DSC1/2 supercorsas, etc. BassGT3, BN, etc?
I've got a couple of days at Le Mans coming up and need new tyres, so was curious as to whether the slicks will offer any real benefit?
I presume Metz/Pirelli slicks are a similar profile to their prodn race tyres?
PS I've not ridden on slicks before.... I have driven on them though, and in the car world they make a whole heap of difference....
I've got a couple of days at Le Mans coming up and need new tyres, so was curious as to whether the slicks will offer any real benefit?
I presume Metz/Pirelli slicks are a similar profile to their prodn race tyres?
PS I've not ridden on slicks before.... I have driven on them though, and in the car world they make a whole heap of difference....
yes they do.
each to there own and all that but it made 4 seconds difference to my old man at cadwell last year on his zx10r.
when i started running them late last year i couldnt get over how grippy they were, never lost faith in them once......they will make a huge difference, as long as you are relatively fast enough to notice that is.
each to there own and all that but it made 4 seconds difference to my old man at cadwell last year on his zx10r.
when i started running them late last year i couldnt get over how grippy they were, never lost faith in them once......they will make a huge difference, as long as you are relatively fast enough to notice that is.
From experience on 1 litre bikes, slicks do give better traction, but ONLY when they're up to temperature. If you are using tyre warmers, then be sure to put them back on the bike as soon as you pull into the pits/garage - this eliminates the hot/cold/hot tyre cycles, which can cause premature tearing and wear.
Personally, I love the sticky road tyres. They heat up a treat and offer very good feeling at the limit of adhesion.
Brands indy circuit is 1.2 miles short and slicks only give .5 of a second at best. To be totally honest with you, slicks will only be better if you're at race pace lap times.
Sticky road tyres on track are perfect these days. Remember tyre pressures are vital. Racetecs usually at 24 to 26 cold for the rear (28-30 hot) and the front at 30 hot. These pressures are ball park - each to their own on this one. Any tyre fitters at the circuit will give you the best advice.
Personally, I love the sticky road tyres. They heat up a treat and offer very good feeling at the limit of adhesion.
Brands indy circuit is 1.2 miles short and slicks only give .5 of a second at best. To be totally honest with you, slicks will only be better if you're at race pace lap times.
Sticky road tyres on track are perfect these days. Remember tyre pressures are vital. Racetecs usually at 24 to 26 cold for the rear (28-30 hot) and the front at 30 hot. These pressures are ball park - each to their own on this one. Any tyre fitters at the circuit will give you the best advice.
Brewsters said:
From experience on 1 litre bikes, slicks do give better traction, but ONLY when they're up to temperature. If you are using tyre warmers, then be sure to put them back on the bike as soon as you pull into the pits/garage - this eliminates the hot/cold/hot tyre cycles, which can cause premature tearing and wear.
Personally, I love the sticky road tyres. They heat up a treat and offer very good feeling at the limit of adhesion.
Brands indy circuit is 1.2 miles short and slicks only give .5 of a second at best. To be totally honest with you, slicks will only be better if you're at race pace lap times.
Sticky road tyres on track are perfect these days. Remember tyre pressures are vital. Racetecs usually at 24 to 26 cold for the rear (28-30 hot) and the front at 30 hot. These pressures are ball park - each to their own on this one. Any tyre fitters at the circuit will give you the best advice.
agreed, big time difference only at race speed, hence my point about my old boy (he was racing in derby pheonix 751-1300)Personally, I love the sticky road tyres. They heat up a treat and offer very good feeling at the limit of adhesion.
Brands indy circuit is 1.2 miles short and slicks only give .5 of a second at best. To be totally honest with you, slicks will only be better if you're at race pace lap times.
Sticky road tyres on track are perfect these days. Remember tyre pressures are vital. Racetecs usually at 24 to 26 cold for the rear (28-30 hot) and the front at 30 hot. These pressures are ball park - each to their own on this one. Any tyre fitters at the circuit will give you the best advice.
and as for temps, yep, heat cycles are a killer!!
4 seconds craig? blimey o'reilly!! I wonder if the fact that he had slicks on gave a kind of 'mental' advantage? - made him push harder or gave more confidence at lean angles? Interesting stuff and wholly believable. I'd definitely use slicks if i could gain that much. Very rider dependent on this one.
Hate to disagree with Craig (or Craig's dad!) here but.............. Supercorsa SC1 and SC2 proddy race tyres VERY VERY similiar to 17" Pirelli slicks. In a blind test you wouldn't go out and think "woohoo what am I going to do with all this extra grip?".
Michelin slicks if chosen correctly for their quite narrow operating tempreature range seem to have silly grip but change the handling somewhat (v.pointy front) so too many things are changing to directly compare and the bike has to be set up accordingly.
Not tried any 16.5" stuff so comments are just based on 17" stuff and never tried Dunlops.
However (and possibly more importantly) slicks do seem to last longer because the ripping / wear of the tyre on the shoulder seems to start at the trailing edges of the tread cuts so they're a better bet for a foreign trackdays.
Michelin slicks if chosen correctly for their quite narrow operating tempreature range seem to have silly grip but change the handling somewhat (v.pointy front) so too many things are changing to directly compare and the bike has to be set up accordingly.
Not tried any 16.5" stuff so comments are just based on 17" stuff and never tried Dunlops.
However (and possibly more importantly) slicks do seem to last longer because the ripping / wear of the tyre on the shoulder seems to start at the trailing edges of the tread cuts so they're a better bet for a foreign trackdays.
moto_traxport said:
Hate to disagree with Craig (or Craig's dad!) here but.............. Supercorsa SC1 and SC2 proddy race tyres VERY VERY similiar to 17" Pirelli slicks. In a blind test you wouldn't go out and think "woohoo what am I going to do with all this extra grip?".
Michelin slicks if chosen correctly for their quite narrow operating tempreature range seem to have silly grip but change the handling somewhat (v.pointy front) so too many things are changing to directly compare and the bike has to be set up accordingly.
Not tried any 16.5" stuff so comments are just based on 17" stuff and never tried Dunlops.
However (and possibly more importantly) slicks do seem to last longer because the ripping / wear of the tyre on the shoulder seems to start at the trailing edges of the tread cuts so they're a better bet for a foreign trackdays.
nowhere near similar atey, different compounds, different carcass, i think a good 2 seconds of that was the aforementioned 'mental' edge, but the difference in race times is generally around 2 seconds between them. Michelin slicks if chosen correctly for their quite narrow operating tempreature range seem to have silly grip but change the handling somewhat (v.pointy front) so too many things are changing to directly compare and the bike has to be set up accordingly.
Not tried any 16.5" stuff so comments are just based on 17" stuff and never tried Dunlops.
However (and possibly more importantly) slicks do seem to last longer because the ripping / wear of the tyre on the shoulder seems to start at the trailing edges of the tread cuts so they're a better bet for a foreign trackdays.
Just read this again (as yer do) and firstly
Also depends on whether its a "straight" tyre (i.e. SC1 / SC2) or a numbered tyre (also numbered SC1 / SC2 - its a production chmapionship you know!) as built for a specific task. If you KNOW its only going to get ONE race and ONE heat cycle you build a different tyre don't you and when a mate loans his tyre to you and it almost swaps ends round Chris Curve last Saturday you think he'd mention it was doing the same thing to him BEFORE he went out
Was told by a long time tyre industry insider that all the manufacturers patent both the construction and the construction method by the way hence how tyres from a certain manufacturer have a certain feel because the carcass will deform in a certain manner.
4 seconds sounds an awful lot for treaded proddy tyres vs slicks. Fecked proddy tyres removed because they were sliding all over the shop and replaced with new or only partially worn slicks would give that time difference I'm sure. Brand new vs brand new is the only comparison.
Supercorsas (and all the others) have at most 2 or 3 heat cycles and 30 laps before they've lost getting on for 2 seconds a lap which is why racers buy new ones every weekend (and inversely why it doesn't matter on trackdays).
fergus said:
I've got a couple of days at Le Mans coming up
jealous! Fancing doing this next year! Keep us informed if the Bugatti circuit is good fun or a maze of 2nd gear hairpins - I'm slightly torn but the name of "Le Mans" means I've got to do it!fergus said:
I presume Metz/Pirelli slicks are a similar profile to their prodn race tyres?
Metz/Pirelli (same company as most know) have the most simliar slicks vs their sticky road tyres hence me attemtping to distinguish the differences. If you are used to Supercorsas then jumping onto Pirelli slicks would be a very comfy / non risky move.Also depends on whether its a "straight" tyre (i.e. SC1 / SC2) or a numbered tyre (also numbered SC1 / SC2 - its a production chmapionship you know!) as built for a specific task. If you KNOW its only going to get ONE race and ONE heat cycle you build a different tyre don't you and when a mate loans his tyre to you and it almost swaps ends round Chris Curve last Saturday you think he'd mention it was doing the same thing to him BEFORE he went out
Was told by a long time tyre industry insider that all the manufacturers patent both the construction and the construction method by the way hence how tyres from a certain manufacturer have a certain feel because the carcass will deform in a certain manner.
4 seconds sounds an awful lot for treaded proddy tyres vs slicks. Fecked proddy tyres removed because they were sliding all over the shop and replaced with new or only partially worn slicks would give that time difference I'm sure. Brand new vs brand new is the only comparison.
Supercorsas (and all the others) have at most 2 or 3 heat cycles and 30 laps before they've lost getting on for 2 seconds a lap which is why racers buy new ones every weekend (and inversely why it doesn't matter on trackdays).
Castrol Craig said:
moto_traxport said:
Hate to disagree with Craig (or Craig's dad!) here but.............. Supercorsa SC1 and SC2 proddy race tyres VERY VERY similiar to 17" Pirelli slicks. In a blind test you wouldn't go out and think "woohoo what am I going to do with all this extra grip?".
Michelin slicks if chosen correctly for their quite narrow operating tempreature range seem to have silly grip but change the handling somewhat (v.pointy front) so too many things are changing to directly compare and the bike has to be set up accordingly.
Not tried any 16.5" stuff so comments are just based on 17" stuff and never tried Dunlops.
However (and possibly more importantly) slicks do seem to last longer because the ripping / wear of the tyre on the shoulder seems to start at the trailing edges of the tread cuts so they're a better bet for a foreign trackdays.
nowhere near similar atey, different compounds, different carcass, i think a good 2 seconds of that was the aforementioned 'mental' edge, but the difference in race times is generally around 2 seconds between them. Michelin slicks if chosen correctly for their quite narrow operating tempreature range seem to have silly grip but change the handling somewhat (v.pointy front) so too many things are changing to directly compare and the bike has to be set up accordingly.
Not tried any 16.5" stuff so comments are just based on 17" stuff and never tried Dunlops.
However (and possibly more importantly) slicks do seem to last longer because the ripping / wear of the tyre on the shoulder seems to start at the trailing edges of the tread cuts so they're a better bet for a foreign trackdays.
moto_traxport said:
Castrol Craig said:
moto_traxport said:
Hate to disagree with Craig (or Craig's dad!) here but.............. Supercorsa SC1 and SC2 proddy race tyres VERY VERY similiar to 17" Pirelli slicks. In a blind test you wouldn't go out and think "woohoo what am I going to do with all this extra grip?".
Michelin slicks if chosen correctly for their quite narrow operating tempreature range seem to have silly grip but change the handling somewhat (v.pointy front) so too many things are changing to directly compare and the bike has to be set up accordingly.
Not tried any 16.5" stuff so comments are just based on 17" stuff and never tried Dunlops.
However (and possibly more importantly) slicks do seem to last longer because the ripping / wear of the tyre on the shoulder seems to start at the trailing edges of the tread cuts so they're a better bet for a foreign trackdays.
nowhere near similar atey, different compounds, different carcass, i think a good 2 seconds of that was the aforementioned 'mental' edge, but the difference in race times is generally around 2 seconds between them. Michelin slicks if chosen correctly for their quite narrow operating tempreature range seem to have silly grip but change the handling somewhat (v.pointy front) so too many things are changing to directly compare and the bike has to be set up accordingly.
Not tried any 16.5" stuff so comments are just based on 17" stuff and never tried Dunlops.
However (and possibly more importantly) slicks do seem to last longer because the ripping / wear of the tyre on the shoulder seems to start at the trailing edges of the tread cuts so they're a better bet for a foreign trackdays.
Edited by Castrol Craig on Wednesday 16th June 20:06
Brewsters said:
FFS - this 'little argument' crops up all the time. Let sleeping dogs lie.
i have, and the people THAT MATTER know the truth. however as that vile little scrotebag has now got involved in something that doesnt involve him then ive replied to that.as i said before, i couldnt really give 2 s
ts what he says, let him vent, hopefully in the end he will end up under cloud and have NO ONE to turn to.olly22n said:
Castrol Craig said:
olly22n said:
shouldn't have bought a nicked bike then like you.Or are you just going to carry on being abusive?
t, b. dont get involved in things that dont involve you, or are you suddenly god and have a right to say what you want without recompense.
fergus said:
cheers chaps!
Looks like the same again, i.e. SC1/2 supercorsas....
No worries Fergus. Tiny, tiny bit unadventurous going with the Supercorsas but very safe, Would encourage you just to try a set of Pirelli slicks as a toe in the water. At the very least in terms of lifetime on a track they are worth 20 quid over a set of a Supercorsas as long as you accept that its not a night and day thing in terms of grip and they are vitually unsaleable used and secondhand wheras ripped up proddy tyres still have a certain value to trackday chaps and roadgoing peeps.Looks like the same again, i.e. SC1/2 supercorsas....
P.S. Sorry Craig, you sound slightly touchy on the subject so probably not time for jokes just yet - eek. Not going to be on the Christmas card
thingy for awhile it seems. Only go to Cadwell once a year so you've missed your chance this year.....moto_traxport said:
fergus said:
cheers chaps!
Looks like the same again, i.e. SC1/2 supercorsas....
No worries Fergus. Tiny, tiny bit unadventurous going with the Supercorsas but very safe, Would encourage you just to try a set of Pirelli slicks as a toe in the water. At the very least in terms of lifetime on a track they are worth 20 quid over a set of a Supercorsas as long as you accept that its not a night and day thing in terms of grip and they are vitually unsaleable used and secondhand wheras ripped up proddy tyres still have a certain value to trackday chaps and roadgoing peeps.Looks like the same again, i.e. SC1/2 supercorsas....
Will give them a go. Am taking a set of full wets with me, as although I'd use SCs in the damp, I'm not sure I'd have the confidence to use slicks (although I know they'd actually be fine!).
chrs
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