Discussion
A question from the not very technically minded, are most top end bespoke dampers offer similar levels of performance? Are there prerequisites for a really top end damper, ie mono tube and remote resevoirs?
Similarly, most expensive dampers that you see are for race/track days understandably enought but given the greater variation or surface on the roads are there aftermarket dampers for road use with the type of spec you see on the track type dampers or is that just simply overkill?
Really would like to know more about this topic as would really like to be able to thoughtfully upgrade my car but there are so many blind alleys and vested interests that it's quite hard to know where to begin.
Similarly, most expensive dampers that you see are for race/track days understandably enought but given the greater variation or surface on the roads are there aftermarket dampers for road use with the type of spec you see on the track type dampers or is that just simply overkill?
Really would like to know more about this topic as would really like to be able to thoughtfully upgrade my car but there are so many blind alleys and vested interests that it's quite hard to know where to begin.
Most conventional top-end dampers will certainly be monotube and remote resevoir, as these features greatly improve admping accuracy and consistency, but there are also variations between manufacturers in the ways the valving works, etc. But there's certainly an argument to say that you don't need lots of adjustability for road use, as you have to use an 'average' setting that can deal with a wide range of surface conditions. Most people will just have one set of adjustments for road use and perhaps another set of adjustments for track days.
3- and 4- way adjustable dampers are best left to track use and people who really need and know how to use them (ie. race teams with decent race engineers and enough track time to test and log all the variations), rather than someone who can only randomly tinker with them on the odd trackday.
Separate low- and high- speed damping adjustment can be useful if you know what you're doing (the high-speed can be used to tune ride quality and the low speed to tune transient weight transfer, without the one affecting the other too much), but they also increase the scope for f
king things up.
3- and 4- way adjustable dampers are best left to track use and people who really need and know how to use them (ie. race teams with decent race engineers and enough track time to test and log all the variations), rather than someone who can only randomly tinker with them on the odd trackday.
Separate low- and high- speed damping adjustment can be useful if you know what you're doing (the high-speed can be used to tune ride quality and the low speed to tune transient weight transfer, without the one affecting the other too much), but they also increase the scope for f
king things up.
With regards to seperate high and low speed damping and the adjusting of same. Is there any merit in having this and letting the damper manufacturer set it up according to a brief or am I talking rubbish here?
Who are the manufacturers who are most likely to help to talior to specific need and who provide the really top end stuff? Is it Nitron/Penske/KW/Exe-tc aka 'the usual suspects'?
Who are the manufacturers who are most likely to help to talior to specific need and who provide the really top end stuff? Is it Nitron/Penske/KW/Exe-tc aka 'the usual suspects'?
Ultrasound said:
With regards to seperate high and low speed damping and the adjusting of same. Is there any merit in having this and letting the damper manufacturer set it up according to a brief
Yes, certainly, if you can find someone who knows what they're doing.If you want to learn about the effects of dampers yourself, of course, there's nothing like having the ability to adjust the settings yourself so that you can see cause and effect, but (particularly with multi-adjustable dampers) you need to be methodical and keep records of your experiments.
Ultrasound said:
Who are the manufacturers who are most likely to help to talior to specific need and who provide the really top end stuff? Is it Nitron/Penske/KW/Exe-tc aka 'the usual suspects'?
Yes. Obviously some are more receptive to tailoring 'one-offs' than others.Penske, in particular, make both components and technical guidance available so that any expert can rebuild their dampers to whatever spec. they like. Have a look on their website - the guidance is very interesting and informative.
Thanks, really appreciate the advice.
The car I'm thinking of is an S1 Elise. Doing bits and pieces with it. It will remain a road car. Just really wondering what could be done with a bit of time/thought and budget.
Are the dampers on a tarmac rally car adjusted between stages or left that way for the whole rally? Reason I ask is that you would imagine that the spec of these dampers (obvioulsy the really high end stuff would be prohibitively expensive), with adjustment for weight, layout etc, would be fairly close to spot on for a quick road car. As you suggested Sam however I quite like the idea of adjustment built in so that I could learn with the car so to speak.
The car I'm thinking of is an S1 Elise. Doing bits and pieces with it. It will remain a road car. Just really wondering what could be done with a bit of time/thought and budget.
Are the dampers on a tarmac rally car adjusted between stages or left that way for the whole rally? Reason I ask is that you would imagine that the spec of these dampers (obvioulsy the really high end stuff would be prohibitively expensive), with adjustment for weight, layout etc, would be fairly close to spot on for a quick road car. As you suggested Sam however I quite like the idea of adjustment built in so that I could learn with the car so to speak.
It goes without saying that an awful lot of work has been done on the Elise, by a lot of people.
My inclination would be to look for a 'package' of adjustable dampers from one of the established specialists, so that you have a good starting point to work from. You can then choose to tinker with the recommended base settings to learn about the effects, in the knowledge that you can always revert back if you mess things up.
If you ask around on SELOC with some idea of your budget, type of use envisaged, and ride/handling preferences, I'm sure you'll get plenty of opinon on the best package to meet your needs.
My inclination would be to look for a 'package' of adjustable dampers from one of the established specialists, so that you have a good starting point to work from. You can then choose to tinker with the recommended base settings to learn about the effects, in the knowledge that you can always revert back if you mess things up.
If you ask around on SELOC with some idea of your budget, type of use envisaged, and ride/handling preferences, I'm sure you'll get plenty of opinon on the best package to meet your needs.
True. I had originally thought of this too, such a path would tend to reccommend the Nitron route. I did notice however quite a track focused outlook and little examination of the use of a really top spec damper for primarily road use.
For some reason I can't register or SELOC!You can't fault their judgement!
Again, many thanks.
Just noticed in your profile you had a Sport 160, a very good choice.
For some reason I can't register or SELOC!You can't fault their judgement!
Again, many thanks.
Just noticed in your profile you had a Sport 160, a very good choice.
Edited by Ultrasound on Wednesday 18th August 21:54
Ultrasound said:
I did notice however quite a track focused outlook and little examination of the use of a really top spec damper for primarily road use.
Well, of course Lotus themselves have done a vast amount of work to optimise the springs and dampers to give the best possible ride/handling compromise for roas use (particularly on the S2; to be fair, the S1's suspension was limited by budget and availability of off-the-shelf dampers).If you want to play around with adjustable dampers but want a road-orientated set-up, you could so a lot worse than getting the standard Lotus S2 dampers dyno'd, then get a manufacturer to reverse-engineer some adjustable dampers so that their mid-range settings replicate the characteristics of the Lotus (Bilstein). dampers.
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