Projector home theatre set up advice
Discussion
Hi,
I'm in the process of converting an internal basement room (ie no windows) into a combination home cinema room and games room with pool table etc.
I'm looking for an inexpensive - average price system for the projector and screen set up( budget is about £1500 max for screen and projector) it has to work with a pretty short throw distance of about 3.1m and I'm looking to create a big as screen as possible. firstly what projector works best at this distance? Also what max size screen could I get this close?
It will be mainly used for either watching sport / f1 or movies,, and in a separate room to my normal day to day tv.
Room dimensions are about 7m x 3.1m but with 1 end allocated to the pool table. So a viewing / sofa area about 3m x 3m
Any help or recommendations would be much appreciated.
Cheers
Ian
I'm in the process of converting an internal basement room (ie no windows) into a combination home cinema room and games room with pool table etc.
I'm looking for an inexpensive - average price system for the projector and screen set up( budget is about £1500 max for screen and projector) it has to work with a pretty short throw distance of about 3.1m and I'm looking to create a big as screen as possible. firstly what projector works best at this distance? Also what max size screen could I get this close?
It will be mainly used for either watching sport / f1 or movies,, and in a separate room to my normal day to day tv.
Room dimensions are about 7m x 3.1m but with 1 end allocated to the pool table. So a viewing / sofa area about 3m x 3m
Any help or recommendations would be much appreciated.
Cheers
Ian
Have a look on line at what models meet your price point and then select that model in this useful calculator:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projection-calcula...
Take the lumens figure with a big pinch of salt however, as some manufacturers quote inflated figures using 'high brite' (sic) or 'Dynamic' modes to give a higher figure. Once you find a model that seems to fit the bill have a read up on AVforums projectors section for information about that specific model:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/projectors/
Also, as it's a dedicated room, you'll get a much better picture if you can surround at least the first 2 metres or so from the screen with dark material or paint at a push: Using a projector in a light walled/white ceiling room will produce a washed out picture (even with the lights fully off) as light will reflect back off the screen and make the dark parts too pale.
You might get a way with painting the screen on the wall if it's smooth enough, which will save you some money for a better projector (you could always add a screen later as money permits). If you do this I'd still suggest making some kind of border as this helps define the edge of the image and it looks better 'framed' IMHO. You could also save money by getting a fixed frame (cheaper than roll down and don't suffer from wrinkles unless you buy a tab tensioned one, which tend to be expensive anyway). There may be some used screens in the AVForums classifieds (as well as projectors too if you fancy something more upmarket for a low price). For example there was a used JVC HD1 on there for around £800 which will probably give any sub £1,500 new current model a good run for it's money. If you can up the budget a bit and use a painted/used screen then I'd highly recommend the JVC HD350 which has recently been 'relaunched' and is available from Richer Sounds for £1,999 (about half what I paid for mine 2 years ago
).
http://www.avforums.com/forums/tv-projector-classi...
http://www.richersounds.com/product/projectors/jvc...
Hope this helps.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projection-calcula...
Take the lumens figure with a big pinch of salt however, as some manufacturers quote inflated figures using 'high brite' (sic) or 'Dynamic' modes to give a higher figure. Once you find a model that seems to fit the bill have a read up on AVforums projectors section for information about that specific model:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/projectors/
Also, as it's a dedicated room, you'll get a much better picture if you can surround at least the first 2 metres or so from the screen with dark material or paint at a push: Using a projector in a light walled/white ceiling room will produce a washed out picture (even with the lights fully off) as light will reflect back off the screen and make the dark parts too pale.
You might get a way with painting the screen on the wall if it's smooth enough, which will save you some money for a better projector (you could always add a screen later as money permits). If you do this I'd still suggest making some kind of border as this helps define the edge of the image and it looks better 'framed' IMHO. You could also save money by getting a fixed frame (cheaper than roll down and don't suffer from wrinkles unless you buy a tab tensioned one, which tend to be expensive anyway). There may be some used screens in the AVForums classifieds (as well as projectors too if you fancy something more upmarket for a low price). For example there was a used JVC HD1 on there for around £800 which will probably give any sub £1,500 new current model a good run for it's money. If you can up the budget a bit and use a painted/used screen then I'd highly recommend the JVC HD350 which has recently been 'relaunched' and is available from Richer Sounds for £1,999 (about half what I paid for mine 2 years ago
).http://www.avforums.com/forums/tv-projector-classi...
http://www.richersounds.com/product/projectors/jvc...
Hope this helps.
I'd check out the cheaper Epson models as you'll get a much brighter, more saturated picture than with JVC models. If you are looking for ther very best picture and sound quality you can achieve at the price, the preparation of the room and layout of the system is the most important thing to address.
Edited by ThatPhilBrettGuy on Saturday 6th November 12:27
While I'd definitely agree with Rob regarding the room (it's his area of knowledge as I've come across Rob on other forums), I'm not convinced re Epsons being 'brighter or more saturated than the JVCs', as if this is a good thing: The JVC model I listed is known for having an oversaturated colour gamut to start with, so why on earth you'd want something even more saturated is questionable. I've even gone to the extra £500 or expense to add an external CMS unit to correct the colours on mine. That's not to say you won't find the picture of the HD350 acceptable (some simply just turn the colour control down a bit and enjoy) just to be aware that excess saturation isn't a good thing. 
Likewise, don't be too taken in by the specs regarding brightness: I don't know so much about Epsons myself, but certainly have experience with Panasonic projectors that use the same D7 LCD panels: If you went by the specs, you'd think a Panasonic AE4000 for example, would be much brighter than the HD350 at 1600 lumens. However, the specs are misleading in that they quote the lumens output in a highly inaccurate mode that even the inexperienced user wouldn't use. In practice, once adjusted even close to accurate the AE4000 is actually dimmer than the HD350. Also, if the HD350 turned out to be too bright, it has a built in iris control to reduce the brightness to taste (plus you can open it up as the lamp ages), so you won't be stuck with an image that strains your eyes if you install a smaller (less than 100") screen. The JVC claim of around 900 lumens is pretty close to what you'll get once calibrated, whereas the AE4000 will end up nearer to 500 lumens. I actually sold my AE3000 (virtually the same as the AE4000 bar the claimed specs, measure almost identically ) and replaced it with a HD350 and find it much brighter.
While I'm sure I come across as a JVC fanboy (I am ) what I'm really saying is don't go too much on the manufacturer's specs...read real reviews for a more accurate comparison and go to some dealers and get some demos as only you know what you prefer.
Likewise, don't be too taken in by the specs regarding brightness: I don't know so much about Epsons myself, but certainly have experience with Panasonic projectors that use the same D7 LCD panels: If you went by the specs, you'd think a Panasonic AE4000 for example, would be much brighter than the HD350 at 1600 lumens. However, the specs are misleading in that they quote the lumens output in a highly inaccurate mode that even the inexperienced user wouldn't use. In practice, once adjusted even close to accurate the AE4000 is actually dimmer than the HD350. Also, if the HD350 turned out to be too bright, it has a built in iris control to reduce the brightness to taste (plus you can open it up as the lamp ages), so you won't be stuck with an image that strains your eyes if you install a smaller (less than 100") screen. The JVC claim of around 900 lumens is pretty close to what you'll get once calibrated, whereas the AE4000 will end up nearer to 500 lumens. I actually sold my AE3000 (virtually the same as the AE4000 bar the claimed specs, measure almost identically
) and replaced it with a HD350 and find it much brighter.While I'm sure I come across as a JVC fanboy (I am
) what I'm really saying is don't go too much on the manufacturer's specs...read real reviews for a more accurate comparison and go to some dealers and get some demos as only you know what you prefer.Cheers guys for all the help, and very technical help is was too!
I have decided to orientate the room so that 1end is the pool table and the other is the home cinema. This means that the projector must work across the shortest distance, ie 3.1m .
My question is what sort of screen size can I get at this throw distance? And is there such a thing as too big and too close?
I'm looking at the optima Hd600x as a good looking budget alternative. Bear in mind this is an occasional use room which will main,y serve as a xbox player, f1 and rugby with the boys tv, not a serious setup for an audiophile!
Am I better hanging the projector down from the ceiling on an extended mount at this distance or is it ok on the ceiling (2.4m high ceiling)
Thanks again for all the help, it's much appreciated.
Cheers
Ian
I have decided to orientate the room so that 1end is the pool table and the other is the home cinema. This means that the projector must work across the shortest distance, ie 3.1m .
My question is what sort of screen size can I get at this throw distance? And is there such a thing as too big and too close?
I'm looking at the optima Hd600x as a good looking budget alternative. Bear in mind this is an occasional use room which will main,y serve as a xbox player, f1 and rugby with the boys tv, not a serious setup for an audiophile!
Am I better hanging the projector down from the ceiling on an extended mount at this distance or is it ok on the ceiling (2.4m high ceiling)
Thanks again for all the help, it's much appreciated.
Cheers
Ian
Going across the room will mean you'll have to use pretty much full zoom to get a decent sized image. Some projectors don't zoom as large as others from such a short throw. Also using maximum zoom will tend to give a less sharp image as you're using more area of the projector's lens (more chance for the image to hit distortions in the lens and the edges aren't as good as the centre generally speaking).
You may need to make allowance for the airflow behind the projector as well as cables in some case, plus the depth of the projector: You should probably allow upto 50cm from the lens of the projector to the rear wall for all of the above, which means your throw distance is around 2.5 metres as the screen will hang in front of the wall by a small amount too.
For you to play around with some screen sizes and throw/zoom settings try this link:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projection-calcula...
You can change the model of the projector as well as move the sliders to change throw distance and zoom setting.
Putting in the HD600x at 2.5 metre throw a get a maximum screen diagonal of 74" 16:9 which is pretty small by projector standards so you might need to get a negative gain screen to ensure the image isn't too bright. Also this is using the full zoom which as I said above isn't really recommended. Bear in mind that many BluRay films are in 2.35 or 2.40:1 aspect ratio (the ones with black bars) which means for those films you'll have an image height of approx 27". I think THX recommends sitting at approximately 3-4 times image height so this would be around 80-100" seating distance.
You may need to make allowance for the airflow behind the projector as well as cables in some case, plus the depth of the projector: You should probably allow upto 50cm from the lens of the projector to the rear wall for all of the above, which means your throw distance is around 2.5 metres as the screen will hang in front of the wall by a small amount too.
For you to play around with some screen sizes and throw/zoom settings try this link:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projection-calcula...
You can change the model of the projector as well as move the sliders to change throw distance and zoom setting.
Putting in the HD600x at 2.5 metre throw a get a maximum screen diagonal of 74" 16:9 which is pretty small by projector standards so you might need to get a negative gain screen to ensure the image isn't too bright. Also this is using the full zoom which as I said above isn't really recommended. Bear in mind that many BluRay films are in 2.35 or 2.40:1 aspect ratio (the ones with black bars) which means for those films you'll have an image height of approx 27". I think THX recommends sitting at approximately 3-4 times image height so this would be around 80-100" seating distance.
Edited by OldSkoolRS on Monday 15th November 20:39
I think you'll struggle to get that big from only 2.5 metres away. I put in my JVC HD350 (which has a pretty wide zoom range) and that only comes to 1.85 metres wide from 2.5 metres throw. I doubt you'll get any bigger than that, though if you play with the link I posted try some other makes to see (maybe Epson or Panasonic, but my old Panny AE3000 had a similar zoom to the HD350 FWIW).
Hi Guys,
Well Ive confirmed the final spec, ordered it (thanks Richer sounds Edinburgh, great helpful place) and fitted it out yesterday.
Final spec was
Optoma HD200X HD projector
Optoma 87" screen
Onkyo TS-SR508
Cambridge audion speakers S70's, S20's and an S50.
Cambridge audio Active sub
Panasonic Blu Ray player
XBOX 360 4GB
Humax HD digital box / recorder
All connected up and had a quick test last night, all connected by HDMI only for ease and quality. Screen more than ample for viewing distance, and projector really easy to set up. Although the mounting system is pretty poor, just 3 small m3 bolts holding it, and even with an optoma ceiling mount they didnt really match the bracket set up, it seems a pretty poor fixing for the unit. Security cable required methinks!
Just one issue, is the sub just emits a slowly rising hum, gets quite load after about 20secs, and no bass for the music comes out? Any ideas? Do I have to set up the Onkyo to switch on a feed from the sub pre out? Ive tried adjusting the volume and freq, but still no change. Is it a faulty sub or cable, or do I just to carry on tonight getting the full setup done, ie microphones etc (too tired to get this done last night!)
Any help appreciated.
Well Ive confirmed the final spec, ordered it (thanks Richer sounds Edinburgh, great helpful place) and fitted it out yesterday.
Final spec was
Optoma HD200X HD projector
Optoma 87" screen
Onkyo TS-SR508
Cambridge audion speakers S70's, S20's and an S50.
Cambridge audio Active sub
Panasonic Blu Ray player
XBOX 360 4GB
Humax HD digital box / recorder
All connected up and had a quick test last night, all connected by HDMI only for ease and quality. Screen more than ample for viewing distance, and projector really easy to set up. Although the mounting system is pretty poor, just 3 small m3 bolts holding it, and even with an optoma ceiling mount they didnt really match the bracket set up, it seems a pretty poor fixing for the unit. Security cable required methinks!
Just one issue, is the sub just emits a slowly rising hum, gets quite load after about 20secs, and no bass for the music comes out? Any ideas? Do I have to set up the Onkyo to switch on a feed from the sub pre out? Ive tried adjusting the volume and freq, but still no change. Is it a faulty sub or cable, or do I just to carry on tonight getting the full setup done, ie microphones etc (too tired to get this done last night!)
Any help appreciated.
You might have to go into a setup menu in the amp to tell it you have a sub, though I'd have thought running the auto setup with a mic should take care of this...should be in the manual anyway. YOu might have to set the speakers to 'small' so that the amp knows to use the sub for example. There might be a crossover setting as well.
Regarding the hum from the sub. If it does this noise when there is nothing plugged into it and the gain of the sub is turned down, then this may well indicate an issue. Might be worth checking the obvious like have you plugged the cable in the right input socket and is it definately plugged into the subwoofer output on the amp (easy to get the wrong socket here when there are loads next to each other).
YOu might have to set the speakers to 'small' so that the amp knows to use the sub for example. There might be a crossover setting as well.Regarding the hum from the sub. If it does this noise when there is nothing plugged into it and the gain of the sub is turned down, then this may well indicate an issue. Might be worth checking the obvious like have you plugged the cable in the right input socket and is it definately plugged into the subwoofer output on the amp (easy to get the wrong socket here when there are loads next to each other).
Hi,
Tried the setup last night, also researched ground issues as possible cause, sub hummed seriously loudly straight away, no matter where the cable was plugged into, and even when it was completely unplugged. Then shortly afterwards it started smelling of burnt electrical problems, so turned it off straight away. I tried my old active sub with the new system, and it worked perfectly. Technical answer is 'it's knackered!'
We'll see how good richer sounds aftercare is now!
Cheers for the help.
Tried the setup last night, also researched ground issues as possible cause, sub hummed seriously loudly straight away, no matter where the cable was plugged into, and even when it was completely unplugged. Then shortly afterwards it started smelling of burnt electrical problems, so turned it off straight away. I tried my old active sub with the new system, and it worked perfectly. Technical answer is 'it's knackered!'
We'll see how good richer sounds aftercare is now!
Cheers for the help.
Hi,
Another small issue has cropped up (these things are never straight forward are they!) the picture is great from the XBOX and pretty good from the freeview box, but distinctly average from the DVD player, sometimes OK, but never brilliant.
I have run only HDMI cables from each of the items to the Onkyo, and then 1 HDMI direct to the projector, so I assume that the cable is OK to the projector, could it be a faulty cable from the DVD player to the ONkyo, or is it a setting somewhere thats not correct?
Im going to try swapping over the HDMI lead from DVD player to the reciever and see what happens, but if this fails any other things to try?
The DVD is a bluray and the projector is HD, so I would expect a pretty good quality image. There are very few set up details in the instruction book, but as the XBOX picture is great I cant think its the alignment or focus etc thats incorrect.
Any ideas?
Another small issue has cropped up (these things are never straight forward are they!) the picture is great from the XBOX and pretty good from the freeview box, but distinctly average from the DVD player, sometimes OK, but never brilliant.
I have run only HDMI cables from each of the items to the Onkyo, and then 1 HDMI direct to the projector, so I assume that the cable is OK to the projector, could it be a faulty cable from the DVD player to the ONkyo, or is it a setting somewhere thats not correct?
Im going to try swapping over the HDMI lead from DVD player to the reciever and see what happens, but if this fails any other things to try?
The DVD is a bluray and the projector is HD, so I would expect a pretty good quality image. There are very few set up details in the instruction book, but as the XBOX picture is great I cant think its the alignment or focus etc thats incorrect.
Any ideas?
You may well need to adjust the settings for the DVD (BluRay) input. As you're using a single cable to the projector it won't 'know' when you use the XBox or the BluRay so you may have to save two different user settings to achieve this. It could also be a settings issue, such as where you do the upscaling: I'd imagine it's in the BluRay (output set to 1080p perhaps?). If not and it's set to 'Source Direct' if it has such a setting then DVDs will be output at 576i and either the amp or the projector will do the upscaling to 1080p. There can be quite a difference in the result on a larger screen, so it's worth experimenting which componant makes the best job of this: In my case my player is worse than my projector, but my Video Processor is best of all, so I let that do the upscaling/deinterlacing.
You don't say in your post what it is about the DVDs that looks poor: Is it motion, colours, black levels/contrast, noise or some other issue?
There are various test discs you can use to help setup the projector from the player. If you look on the web for Digital Video Essentials, or some discs have a THX setup option in the menu...it's not a calibration as such, but a good starting point.
You don't say in your post what it is about the DVDs that looks poor: Is it motion, colours, black levels/contrast, noise or some other issue?
There are various test discs you can use to help setup the projector from the player. If you look on the web for Digital Video Essentials, or some discs have a THX setup option in the menu...it's not a calibration as such, but a good starting point.
Hi RS,
Many thanks for the advice, all worked perfectly, and i now have a great working system, your help was much appreciated!
On a side note, I have to say that Richer Sounds customer service is bloody awful! Its taken nearly 4 weeks to get them to replace the subwoofer, which arrived on Friday, depsite it being in stock and despite them agreeing to swap it on the first phone call!
Now I know the weather is causing big problems, but the carrier they used delivered next day for the replacement, and it was checked and confirmed as instock 4 weeks ago!
After about 10 phone calls, leaving messages becuase the store was too busy to answer their own phone, 4 calls to customer service ( who all sounded like 19year olds on drugs), and seemed to only have the authority to send an email marked urgent, to the branch to call me, other than that they couldnt do anything else!
To be honest its spoiled the whole process, I 100% understand that products can be faulty, but its how you sort them out that makes the difference, and Richer sounds are rubbish at it! No communication, contact, follow up call nothing. Its only when I threatened to go to my credit card company that the replacement was delivered!
Anyway, rant over, the actual system works great!
Many thanks for the advice, all worked perfectly, and i now have a great working system, your help was much appreciated!
On a side note, I have to say that Richer Sounds customer service is bloody awful! Its taken nearly 4 weeks to get them to replace the subwoofer, which arrived on Friday, depsite it being in stock and despite them agreeing to swap it on the first phone call!
Now I know the weather is causing big problems, but the carrier they used delivered next day for the replacement, and it was checked and confirmed as instock 4 weeks ago!
After about 10 phone calls, leaving messages becuase the store was too busy to answer their own phone, 4 calls to customer service ( who all sounded like 19year olds on drugs), and seemed to only have the authority to send an email marked urgent, to the branch to call me, other than that they couldnt do anything else!
To be honest its spoiled the whole process, I 100% understand that products can be faulty, but its how you sort them out that makes the difference, and Richer sounds are rubbish at it! No communication, contact, follow up call nothing. Its only when I threatened to go to my credit card company that the replacement was delivered!
Anyway, rant over, the actual system works great!
Glad you got it all sorted out, just in time for peak viewing season (well that's what I call Christmas anyway ). I don't like that a name sake (RS ) doesn't treat customers as well as they should though.
I've just got my setup finally tweaked following last month's calibration and a bit of a tweaking session making a few minor setup adjustments to the amp/video processor. Even though I've had a demo of the new £6K plus JVC, I don't reckon I'm watching a poor version. I rented Iron Man 2 this weekend for my son (he loved it and my subwoofer moved 6" during the film). Here's a screenshot of one of the scenes: This is on a 112" wide 2.35:1 screen...those with photoshop skills can lighten the picture to see that there is some stuff surrounding the screen (mainly some black cotton sheet above it and on the floor).
It's a great way to enjoy films at home, when it looks this good:
). I don't like that a name sake (RS ) doesn't treat customers as well as they should though. I've just got my setup finally tweaked following last month's calibration and a bit of a tweaking session making a few minor setup adjustments to the amp/video processor. Even though I've had a demo of the new £6K plus JVC, I don't reckon I'm watching a poor version. I rented Iron Man 2 this weekend for my son (he loved it and my subwoofer moved 6" during the film
). Here's a screenshot of one of the scenes: This is on a 112" wide 2.35:1 screen...those with photoshop skills can lighten the picture to see that there is some stuff surrounding the screen (mainly some black cotton sheet above it and on the floor). It's a great way to enjoy films at home, when it looks this good:
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