Forced to take leave because of snow
Discussion
GeraldSmith said:
Of course, it's your responsibility to get to work, why should the employer pay if you fail to get there?
From the employer's perspective, it makes sense. But it's a bit unfair if it's something out of your control. You don't take holidays when you have gastroenteritis (even if you purposely ate raw chicken!) or if you have a hernia surgery, do you?ShadownINja said:
GeraldSmith said:
Of course, it's your responsibility to get to work, why should the employer pay if you fail to get there?
From the employer's perspective, it makes sense. But it's a bit unfair if it's something out of your control. You don't take holidays when you have gastroenteritis (even if you purposely ate raw chicken!) or if you have a hernia surgery, do you?The way to look at it is this. Say you have someone doing some decorating for you, or doing your garden, working on your car, whatever. One day they don't turn up would you want to pay them? I'd guess not, I suspect you'd think it was a bit unfair if you had to.
So why is this different? Your employment is a contract, if you don't deliver on the contract for whatever reason why should you be paid?
GeraldSmith said:
ShadownINja said:
GeraldSmith said:
Of course, it's your responsibility to get to work, why should the employer pay if you fail to get there?
From the employer's perspective, it makes sense. But it's a bit unfair if it's something out of your control. You don't take holidays when you have gastroenteritis (even if you purposely ate raw chicken!) or if you have a hernia surgery, do you?The way to look at it is this. Say you have someone doing some decorating for you, or doing your garden, working on your car, whatever. One day they don't turn up would you want to pay them? I'd guess not, I suspect you'd think it was a bit unfair if you had to.
So why is this different? Your employment is a contract, if you don't deliver on the contract for whatever reason why should you be paid?
If an employee is driving to work and his car breaks down making him 2 hours late while he waits for the AA to sort things out, should he be docked 2 hours' salary/made to work late? What if there's an accident and the motorway is shut so he is 3 hours late for work?
ShadownINja said:
I suppose the key difference is that employees are allowed to have sick leave.
If an employee is driving to work and his car breaks down making him 2 hours late while he waits for the AA to sort things out, should he be docked 2 hours' salary/made to work late? What if there's an accident and the motorway is shut so he is 3 hours late for work?
Well actually employees are not allowed to have sick leave. Your contract may allow some but legally there is no obligation on an employer to pay you if you are sick, all you are entitled to is SSP which comes from the government. And if you have an unreasonable amunt of time off you can be dismissed.If an employee is driving to work and his car breaks down making him 2 hours late while he waits for the AA to sort things out, should he be docked 2 hours' salary/made to work late? What if there's an accident and the motorway is shut so he is 3 hours late for work?
If your car breaks down or the road is shut or whatever you are in breach of you contract and you certainly have no right to be paid.
Of course what happens is that most employers allow a certain amount of this stuff, but that is their choice, there is no obligation on them to do so.
GeraldSmith said:
Well actually employees are not allowed to have sick leave. Your contract may allow some but legally there is no obligation on an employer to pay you if you are sick, all you are entitled to is SSP which comes from the government. And if you have an unreasonable amunt of time off you can be dismissed.
If your car breaks down or the road is shut or whatever you are in breach of you contract and you certainly have no right to be paid.
Of course what happens is that most employers allow a certain amount of this stuff, but that is their choice, there is no obligation on them to do so.
True. I suppose it is down to the employer then and how much the employer values the employee. "My dad died and his funeral is tomorrow but I've run out of holiday leave." "Tough. See you tomorrow, 9am sharp."If your car breaks down or the road is shut or whatever you are in breach of you contract and you certainly have no right to be paid.
Of course what happens is that most employers allow a certain amount of this stuff, but that is their choice, there is no obligation on them to do so.
ShadownINja said:
GeraldSmith said:
Well actually employees are not allowed to have sick leave. Your contract may allow some but legally there is no obligation on an employer to pay you if you are sick, all you are entitled to is SSP which comes from the government. And if you have an unreasonable amunt of time off you can be dismissed.
If your car breaks down or the road is shut or whatever you are in breach of you contract and you certainly have no right to be paid.
Of course what happens is that most employers allow a certain amount of this stuff, but that is their choice, there is no obligation on them to do so.
True. I suppose it is down to the employer then and how much the employer values the employee. "My dad died and his funeral is tomorrow but I've run out of holiday leave." "Tough. See you tomorrow, 9am sharp."If your car breaks down or the road is shut or whatever you are in breach of you contract and you certainly have no right to be paid.
Of course what happens is that most employers allow a certain amount of this stuff, but that is their choice, there is no obligation on them to do so.
I think effort on both sides is called for, an employer should really say ok, you can take the time off as a holiday if you wish or give you the option of making the time up at a later date.
The employer shouldn't lose out but then again neither should the employee if its genuinly that bad they cant make it in.
The employer shouldn't lose out but then again neither should the employee if its genuinly that bad they cant make it in.
I have always understood in the event of snow or floods or even a big road accident that if I chose not to try and get into work then work could choose not to pay me, however if work tell me not to take the risk coming in then really they should pay or make it clear that they won't if you take their advice, the final case is if work decide the situation is so bad that they won't bother opening then you would assume they would pay.
Companies I have worked for have used whether or not the buses are running as an assessment of whether or not you should try and get into work.
Companies I have worked for have used whether or not the buses are running as an assessment of whether or not you should try and get into work.
JumboBeef said:
A friend of mine was telling me that if he cannot get into work because of the snow/ice (it is a private company), he is forced to take the day off as annual leave.
Can his company legally do this?
Thanks.
I'm pretty sure a company is well within their rights to do this.Can his company legally do this?
Thanks.
It's a tricky one though and I tend to be biased toward the employee on this (surprise, surprise
). It's times like this that mark most employers out and from experience the companies that expect you to take annual leave are the same ones that expect you to work more than your contracted hours ever week 
Last time ,companies like the one I used to work for, expected us to make a reasonable attempt to get in , but not to place ourselves in danger . We all had company mobiles ,and were encouraged ,in the event of possibly being late, not to take risks/exceed the limit, but to stop and phone in .The attitude was that they'd sooner we were late/missed a few hours/ took the day off if weather bad than have an accident .Amazing how few didn't get in , or were late .
The problem with this stuff is that in reality if you have a reasonable sized workforce the problem is that some can probably work from home, but others can't. Some live locally but others don't. But it is hard to have one rule for one and another rule for others, if you tell one person they can work from home you cause grief with others even though they may have only a fraction of the journey to do.
If everyone was good, sensible and responsible it would be easy, unfortunately whilst most are like that a few will take the piss and look on a snow day as a holiday if you have a policy to pay people regardless of whether they get there or not. As ever the few spoil it for the rest.
If everyone was good, sensible and responsible it would be easy, unfortunately whilst most are like that a few will take the piss and look on a snow day as a holiday if you have a policy to pay people regardless of whether they get there or not. As ever the few spoil it for the rest.
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