Wings de-icing query.
Discussion
Sitting in the plane here in Venice, waiting for the de-icing to finish and just wondering what is the stuff made of? It looks like a thicker car wash shampoo.
Also, the whole operation takes quite a while, it might not be cold enough here (snow more like) but in colder places what's to stop the first wing to freeze again whilst the truck is going over the rest of the plane?
Dull questions I admit but just curious and a bit bored too.
Cheers.
Also, the whole operation takes quite a while, it might not be cold enough here (snow more like) but in colder places what's to stop the first wing to freeze again whilst the truck is going over the rest of the plane?
Dull questions I admit but just curious and a bit bored too.
Cheers.
Simpo Two said:
I have a memory of inflatable rubber 'boots' on the LE which cracked the ice off. Now which era/palne would that be?
One with that system crashed in the US. I'm sure it was near a place beginning with a C... It was on one of those Air Accident Investigation things.http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/nyregion/13crash...
Not the one I was thinking of (too recent). But the same system described.
Edited by Munter on Friday 17th December 14:44
Yes, it seems it will re-freeze under certain conditions.
Coming out of JFK after an ice storm, they set up the aircraft de-icing close to the end of the runway to avoid the long taxi and obvious re-freeze on the way there from the gate.
Taxi out, switch off, de-ice, restart and off pdq.
Seemed to work, I got home.
Coming out of JFK after an ice storm, they set up the aircraft de-icing close to the end of the runway to avoid the long taxi and obvious re-freeze on the way there from the gate.
Taxi out, switch off, de-ice, restart and off pdq.
Seemed to work, I got home.
Munter said:
Simpo Two said:
I have a memory of inflatable rubber 'boots' on the LE which cracked the ice off. Now which era/palne would that be?
One with that system crashed in the US. I'm sure it was near a place beginning with a C... It was on one of those Air Accident Investigation things.http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/nyregion/13crash...
Not the one I was thinking of (too recent). But the same system described.
Edited by Munter on Friday 17th December 14:44
magpie215 said:
it is usually a heated glycol solution for deicing aircraft.
depending on the concentration of the solution and ambient conditions dictates the holdover period between applications.
There was an airport on some news pictures the other day where they were giving the planes another blast of de-icer at the atart of the runway.depending on the concentration of the solution and ambient conditions dictates the holdover period between applications.
Deva Link said:
magpie215 said:
it is usually a heated glycol solution for deicing aircraft.
depending on the concentration of the solution and ambient conditions dictates the holdover period between applications.
There was an airport on some news pictures the other day where they were giving the planes another blast of de-icer at the atart of the runway.depending on the concentration of the solution and ambient conditions dictates the holdover period between applications.
Commercial aircaft must undertake two stages of external ice prevention (if required). First the a/c must be de-iced. Once de-iced, anti icing fluid is applied. The anti icing fluid will have what is known as a 'hold over time' - which changes depending upon temperature, ambient conditions, weather etc. If the aircraft is not in the air by the time the hold over time expires, the process must start again.
This wiki page is quite good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deicing_fluid
This wiki page is quite good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deicing_fluid
Edited by FuzzyLogic on Saturday 18th December 13:36
FuzzyLogic said:
Commercial aircaft must undertake two stages of external ice prevention (if required). First the a/c must be de-iced. Once de-iced, anti icing fluid is applied. The anti icing fluid will have what is known as a 'hold over time' - which changes depending upon temperature, ambient conditions, weather etc. If the aircraft is not in the air by the time the hold over time expires, the process must start again.
"Must"? Try telling russian pilots that, I've seen them go flying with stuff on their wings that would make your hair curl. Anti-icing fluid (after de-icing) is only required if conditions are likely to result in further contamination ie, snow, freezing rain etc. If it were a clear, cold day then removal of frost/ice only would be required. No need for anti-ice fluid if ice isn't going to reform.Edited by FuzzyLogic on Saturday 18th December 13:36
Types are (mainly) I, II, III and IV. Type I is de-ice fluid with little or no holdover properties. The others are predominantly anti-ice fluids to prevent recontamination and holdover times will vary dependant upon ambient temperature, the fluid mix ratio and type of precipitation which will dilute the fluid. Once the holdover time is up if you're not airborne then it's back to the bay for another dose.
Anti-ice fluids are designed to shear off the wing at a speed just before rotation (take-off). Type IV is used on jet aircraft with higher rotation speeds compared to Types II/III for (say) turboprops. There's a certain type of small bizjet that has to add a few knots to its rotation speed (Vr) to ensure the wing is clean.
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