Buying a JCW. Things to look for?
Discussion
Hi there. First post on PH. I've been told you guys are in the know!
I'm looking to buy a Mini Cooper S JCW registered between 2004 and 2006. I need some help from someone who knows about the different factory options that were available at the time. I'll warn you now: I'm being quite fussy and there may be very few examples that meet my requirements:
- Full JCW 210bhp engine upgrade
- Harman Kardon stereo
- Under 40,000 miles on the clock
What I'm wondering is:
a. What was the full list of JCW performance upgrades (if we forget aerodynamic addenda)?
b. Were there any options that affected handling?
c. Was the 210bhp figure the sum total of all of the upgrades, including the JCW exhaust?
d. Are the optional Recaros actually nice to sit in for long periods? Are they good?
e. Is the limited slip diff a JCW option or do all JCW cars have an LSD?
f. Is there any way to verify the authenticity of the Cooper Works certificate?
Any wisdom you can impart will be greatly appreciated!
I'm looking to buy a Mini Cooper S JCW registered between 2004 and 2006. I need some help from someone who knows about the different factory options that were available at the time. I'll warn you now: I'm being quite fussy and there may be very few examples that meet my requirements:
- Full JCW 210bhp engine upgrade
- Harman Kardon stereo
- Under 40,000 miles on the clock
What I'm wondering is:
a. What was the full list of JCW performance upgrades (if we forget aerodynamic addenda)?
b. Were there any options that affected handling?
c. Was the 210bhp figure the sum total of all of the upgrades, including the JCW exhaust?
d. Are the optional Recaros actually nice to sit in for long periods? Are they good?
e. Is the limited slip diff a JCW option or do all JCW cars have an LSD?
f. Is there any way to verify the authenticity of the Cooper Works certificate?
Any wisdom you can impart will be greatly appreciated!
a. What was the full list of JCW performance upgrades (if we forget aerodynamic addenda)?
You will be able to contact the dealer who sold it with a reg plate and they can confirm it, generally look for the following
Also as a side note you will be so lucky to find a car with all the options as that was almost a £35k car when new, mine had everything as I was a JCW fanatic and probably spent way too much, you can still by a JCW and add the parts after from dealer and ebay. Note the the HK is an arse to fit and there is a retro fit kit but it costs £1500 and as seams to be the way most retro fit kits cost a lot and are still fairly troublesome to fit. HK does sound very good but not £1500 good. To tell if it is a real HK and not just the covers there is a black amp in the side pocket of the boot RH side as you look in, there may also be a black parking sensor module in there too so do not get confused
- 200bhp kit - cylinder head, exhaust, blower with 11% pulley, inter cooler cover same as stock but silver with a sticker, engine badge, map and thats all
- 210bhp kit - everything above but with blue injectors and an air box and a different map
- you could then opt for uprated red JCW brakes, suspension, lots of external body mods - spoilers, bumpers, skirts, wheels, LSD (option on all models), front strut brace
- suspension struts and springs
- Yes but nearly all JCW cars will only achieve a real 190 - 195 as the test figure was produced with a large fan on the cooler so no RR will show that high and it was only the first 5 210 which made the power.
- There was recaro seats but not a JCW option you can get them but the JCW seats were Sparco seats the fronts are quite common but the rears are rare, I had a full set and it was said there was about 5 full sets in the UK... For a small build they are fine but no good for a larger build. The recaro was a standard seat in the GP but that only had front seats.
- The LSD was an opt in until after 2004 54plate where all factory cars came with it unless the purchaser said no, it was always an option but most cars do not have it because the buyer didn't know about it. Also its not excellent its more half an LSD than a full LSD most people change it to a quaife
You will be able to contact the dealer who sold it with a reg plate and they can confirm it, generally look for the following
- A number on the rocker cover JCW badge
- A red dot on the cylinder head on the LH side behind the horn [except the GP]
- Blue injectors, you will see them under the cooler
- the pulley on the blower will not have any bolts in it or it may have been changed
Also as a side note you will be so lucky to find a car with all the options as that was almost a £35k car when new, mine had everything as I was a JCW fanatic and probably spent way too much, you can still by a JCW and add the parts after from dealer and ebay. Note the the HK is an arse to fit and there is a retro fit kit but it costs £1500 and as seams to be the way most retro fit kits cost a lot and are still fairly troublesome to fit. HK does sound very good but not £1500 good. To tell if it is a real HK and not just the covers there is a black amp in the side pocket of the boot RH side as you look in, there may also be a black parking sensor module in there too so do not get confused
Edited by RKDE on Wednesday 9th February 10:40
Edited by RKDE on Wednesday 9th February 10:41
Chr1sch said:
Have you bought the recent evo by any chance? - its their recommended purchase for 8-10k....
@Chr1sch - I decided about a month ago to buy a Mini Cooper S as a second car. The article in evo helped me confirm my decision, and persuaded me to hold out for a suitable JCW example.@RKDE - Thank you for getting back to me so quickly. You obviously know your stuff. Out of interest who did you have your insurance with? Did you have to go with a specialist insurer after you started swapping the factory parts out?
I generally use Adrian flux for all my cars I tend to feel that they look after me well especially as I have weekend toys and a daily car too and they do seam to come back with competitive price. However if its a stock JCW then any insurance company will be fine
If you start to swap parts out you will need a modified insurance policy as with any car. Since the mini is so tunable its worth considering what you want. If you want a fast toy for the weekend I would still say go for an S and mod it to be a quicker car than the JCW. Choice is yours, the JCW is a good intermediate starting point. Add a newman cam, itg air filer, take the flap out the JCW air box and remove the middle box and it will fly and will only cost a couple of hundred too
You will probably want to remove the run flats so you will not want JCW suspension as that is specially for run flats and over compensates on normal tyres.
If you start to swap parts out you will need a modified insurance policy as with any car. Since the mini is so tunable its worth considering what you want. If you want a fast toy for the weekend I would still say go for an S and mod it to be a quicker car than the JCW. Choice is yours, the JCW is a good intermediate starting point. Add a newman cam, itg air filer, take the flap out the JCW air box and remove the middle box and it will fly and will only cost a couple of hundred too
You will probably want to remove the run flats so you will not want JCW suspension as that is specially for run flats and over compensates on normal tyres.
Edited by RKDE on Thursday 3rd February 13:16
I bought the Mrs a 54 plate one with very low miles a few years ago. Dont have it any more.
I will say the brakes are terrible. They really need upgrading.
No LSD fitted to ours made it rubbish for traction, especially in the wet. It sat on the drive in the snow as it was utter useless. Traction control just cut power, and you just sat still.
The handling and performance in the dry were fantastic, and she easily cornered faster than me in the Impreza WRX I had at the time.
She loved it, but for me it had too many flaws to make it a real drivers car.
I will say the brakes are terrible. They really need upgrading.
No LSD fitted to ours made it rubbish for traction, especially in the wet. It sat on the drive in the snow as it was utter useless. Traction control just cut power, and you just sat still.
The handling and performance in the dry were fantastic, and she easily cornered faster than me in the Impreza WRX I had at the time.
She loved it, but for me it had too many flaws to make it a real drivers car.
nottyash said:
I bought the Mrs a 54 plate one with very low miles a few years ago. Dont have it any more.
I will say the brakes are terrible. They really need upgrading.
No LSD fitted to ours made it rubbish for traction, especially in the wet. It sat on the drive in the snow as it was utter useless. Traction control just cut power, and you just sat still.
The handling and performance in the dry were fantastic, and she easily cornered faster than me in the Impreza WRX I had at the time.
She loved it, but for me it had too many flaws to make it a real drivers car.
Did you have the uprated JCW brakes? The car my ex owned had them and I thought the brakes were really good.I will say the brakes are terrible. They really need upgrading.
No LSD fitted to ours made it rubbish for traction, especially in the wet. It sat on the drive in the snow as it was utter useless. Traction control just cut power, and you just sat still.
The handling and performance in the dry were fantastic, and she easily cornered faster than me in the Impreza WRX I had at the time.
She loved it, but for me it had too many flaws to make it a real drivers car.
As for traction in the snow, you can just turn the T/C off (read: down) and it helps a bit.
jammy_basturd said:
Did you have the uprated JCW brakes? The car my ex owned had them and I thought the brakes were really good.
As for traction in the snow, you can just turn the T/C off (read: down) and it helps a bit.
No had standard brakes, but i even changed all the discs and pads but it never helped. I cant believe they sold the car without the JCW ones.As for traction in the snow, you can just turn the T/C off (read: down) and it helps a bit.
Same story with the LSD, its a must on these cars.
My theory is the kind of people that bought these new had no idea about cars, they just wanted a Mini, so overlooked things like brakes and especially a LSD which was only £150 option I believe.
Turning off the traction control wasnt much use either, as 210BHP through the front wheel with no LSD to help was never going to work.
We were going to put the JCW Sparco seats, LSD and uprated brakes, but the costs never made it worthwhile. if you buy one with all these options on you have done well.
Worth noting the JCW brake upgrade is good.
The factory LSD is not a full LSD its almost half a LSD and only locks a little more than stock not like a quaife.
The problem with wet weather is firstly the ASC or DSC, turn it off, the next thing is loose the rubbish run flat tyres and you will be fine. I have owned and driven many in the snow and yes a LSD helps but the stock one doesn't do much more to help. The tyres are the real breaking point put proper tyres on and the car is a different animal
The factory LSD is not a full LSD its almost half a LSD and only locks a little more than stock not like a quaife.
The problem with wet weather is firstly the ASC or DSC, turn it off, the next thing is loose the rubbish run flat tyres and you will be fine. I have owned and driven many in the snow and yes a LSD helps but the stock one doesn't do much more to help. The tyres are the real breaking point put proper tyres on and the car is a different animal
I recently bought the wife a 2006 JCW - which I believe is probably as near to full spec as you can get.
Factory JCW 210bhp upgrade
18" Polished JCW Alloys
JCW Brakes
JCW Leather Front buckets AND rear bench
JCW Shift Indicator
JCW Leather dashboard
Panoramic Roof
Navigation with Bluetooth and voice control
Climate Control
Harmon Kardon and CD Multi
Visibility Pack
Chilli Pack with LSD
Folding Mirrors
plus probably some stuff I missed
I think list was approaching £35K as was mentioned earlier. Mileage is 50K but the car was 1 owner from new with TLC (now XL). Condition was mint, so don't worry too much about a slightly higher mileage car - buy on condition.
As for the seats, I am a fat git and still find them comfy, even on long journeys.
I paid £11K for it and was happy with that given the spec, condition etc. As was said, there are not many with (genuinely) everything.
Good luck with your search....
Factory JCW 210bhp upgrade
18" Polished JCW Alloys
JCW Brakes
JCW Leather Front buckets AND rear bench
JCW Shift Indicator
JCW Leather dashboard
Panoramic Roof
Navigation with Bluetooth and voice control
Climate Control
Harmon Kardon and CD Multi
Visibility Pack
Chilli Pack with LSD
Folding Mirrors
plus probably some stuff I missed
I think list was approaching £35K as was mentioned earlier. Mileage is 50K but the car was 1 owner from new with TLC (now XL). Condition was mint, so don't worry too much about a slightly higher mileage car - buy on condition.
As for the seats, I am a fat git and still find them comfy, even on long journeys.
I paid £11K for it and was happy with that given the spec, condition etc. As was said, there are not many with (genuinely) everything.
Good luck with your search....
Evening chaps, this is well timed. I too have just bought a full optioned 06 JCW. My progression with minis is quite broad so I reckon I'm a fairly balanced measuring stick when it cones to these cars.
I had an 04 cooper s with the later 3 spoke steering wheel. Options aside, it was a standard power and chassis combo. I really liked it. The car pulled well and the brakes were good. I only ever got fade after a hard session on a track day. That would be a good 40mins of hard work, so I think the original brakes were good. Especially if also using engine braking into a bend. The only thing I felt that was unexpected was that the car would roll when pushed. It stuck the road, but I felt that the standard seat wouldn't hold me properly.
My commute to work was never hindered too much snow either. The traction control was never effective, but flicking it off worked a treat.
I traded this in for the JCW. I pick it up on Monday (14th) so I will be excited to play with it and see what the differences are. My car too, is less most of the carbon bits, but I do have everything else including a 2 strut carbon wing which is quite rare. And an engine strut brace. I'm not sure if this came with the suspension kit, or as a separate item. The recaro seats in this one are the GP ones I believe, as they are heated and have the bolster.
My reason for changing cars is due to my father owning a GP. I enjoy the power and level cornering that it offered. I realise there's a weight difference in it's favour, but I'm sure a JCW is closer to it than my old 'S'. I'm attending the Ace Cafe night on Monday. So have a look and hopefully I'll have worked out it's initial differences over the standard 'S'.
I had an 04 cooper s with the later 3 spoke steering wheel. Options aside, it was a standard power and chassis combo. I really liked it. The car pulled well and the brakes were good. I only ever got fade after a hard session on a track day. That would be a good 40mins of hard work, so I think the original brakes were good. Especially if also using engine braking into a bend. The only thing I felt that was unexpected was that the car would roll when pushed. It stuck the road, but I felt that the standard seat wouldn't hold me properly.
My commute to work was never hindered too much snow either. The traction control was never effective, but flicking it off worked a treat.
I traded this in for the JCW. I pick it up on Monday (14th) so I will be excited to play with it and see what the differences are. My car too, is less most of the carbon bits, but I do have everything else including a 2 strut carbon wing which is quite rare. And an engine strut brace. I'm not sure if this came with the suspension kit, or as a separate item. The recaro seats in this one are the GP ones I believe, as they are heated and have the bolster.
My reason for changing cars is due to my father owning a GP. I enjoy the power and level cornering that it offered. I realise there's a weight difference in it's favour, but I'm sure a JCW is closer to it than my old 'S'. I'm attending the Ace Cafe night on Monday. So have a look and hopefully I'll have worked out it's initial differences over the standard 'S'.
RKDE said:
Wow a rare car there, does it have the suspension upgrade too? That car will be a future classic in years to come, especially if it has all the jcw carbon fibre
Thanks. I must admit when I bought it, it was going to be a temporary car while the wife was waiting for a new car - knowing that it will always sell for good money with that spec. However, once she got in it, the new car was cancelled!Good question on the suspension - is there an easy way to tell what type it has?
MrTickle said:
Good question on the suspension - is there an easy way to tell what type it has?
Also, I wouldn't know how to look for the JCW "half diff" so is there a way to tell?It's not going affect my decision but I was wondering: does the Harman Kardon stereo have a 3.5mm aux-in socket?
The HK will probably not have an ipod or 3.5mm jack because it will most likely have a CD changer however you can unplug the changer and add either ipod or 3.5mm jack easily. The mini HK system is an odd fellow, its actually the stock boost head unit, but when the amp is connected to it, the only part of the head unit used is the front panel and the amp basically becomes a new head unit in the boot, which then powers all the different speakers and sounds worlds better. newministuff.co.uk will be able to help with all the audio needs and jack and ipod connectors etc
As for the springs, look at them if the struts are black and the springs are red they are JCW setup.
Diff is a hard one to tell, best thing to do is look where it was purchased from, ring the dealer and they will be able to tell you, the next method is to remove lots from the engine bay and look at the gearbox number, but you not going to be doing that. Ringing the dealer is the best way and ask them for the details of the build
As for the springs, look at them if the struts are black and the springs are red they are JCW setup.
Diff is a hard one to tell, best thing to do is look where it was purchased from, ring the dealer and they will be able to tell you, the next method is to remove lots from the engine bay and look at the gearbox number, but you not going to be doing that. Ringing the dealer is the best way and ask them for the details of the build
Edited by RKDE on Wednesday 9th February 10:39
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