Libyan crisis - would the government bring back Ark Royal & Harriers?
Discussion
As above, is it a) too late or b) just not worth it? I know the SHARs aren't easily available but the RAF harriers must be still? The reason I ask is according to the telly (so it must be true!) The government is thinking about taking military action against the libyans.
Should have done that after Lockerbie or at least shot the bomber instead of handing him back.
Should have done that after Lockerbie or at least shot the bomber instead of handing him back.
heisthegaffer said:
As above, is it a) too late or b) just not worth it? I know the SHARs aren't easily available but the RAF harriers must be still? The reason I ask is according to the telly (so it must be true!) The government is thinking about taking military action against the libyans.
Should have done that after Lockerbie or at least shot the bomber instead of handing him back.
Why do such a thing when airbases are available so close to Libya anyway?Should have done that after Lockerbie or at least shot the bomber instead of handing him back.
Yes itd be a great asset to have, but we would have to fly the slower harriers in under top cover from Typhoons. Instead Tornado GR4s would probably be used for ground attack. Or even the multi-role Typhoon FGR4.
Really though submarine launched cruise missiles would be used to strike important fixed targets. A no fly zone would be enforced by Typhoons, or by other countries air forces.
Actually before SDSR it was said we wouldnt be in another war for a lot of years so its ok to cut capability. Harriers were a nice to have and provided strike capability in some places that are hard to reach but there isnt really much that cant be done by other assets.
Mr Dave said:
Actually before SDSR it was said we wouldnt be in another war for a lot of years so its ok to cut capability.
They said that in 1918 too.History shows that wars have an irksome habit of springing up somewhat faster than you can design, build and commission new airplanes and ships. And people who ignore history invariably find themselves reliving it.
That said, GB is screwed as any kind of world power - there is neither the money nor the national will to be one - but we do have a silly habit of trying to tell other countries how they should be run.
heisthegaffer said:
As above, is it a) too late or b) just not worth it? I know the SHARs aren't easily available but the RAF harriers must be still? The reason I ask is according to the telly (so it must be true!) The government is thinking about taking military action against the libyans.
Should have done that after Lockerbie or at least shot the bomber instead of handing him back.
The Libyan Air force is fairly token.Should have done that after Lockerbie or at least shot the bomber instead of handing him back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Air_Force
Probably less than 10-20 fighter aircraft in any form of serviceable condition, no modern SAM systems. Cruise missiles and strike aircraft could smash the serviceable planes in an afternoon.
Libya is within unrefueled strike radius of RAF aircraft operating from Malta or within air refuelling range from Gibraltar if a fully sovereign RAF mission was required.
Mr Dave said:
...under top cover from Typhoons. Instead Tornado GR4s would probably be used for ground attack. Or even the multi-role Typhoon FGR4.
Really though submarine launched cruise missiles would be used to strike important fixed targets. A no fly zone would be enforced by Typhoons, or by other countries air forces.
Just a shame that the Typhoons are currently next to useless operationally.Really though submarine launched cruise missiles would be used to strike important fixed targets. A no fly zone would be enforced by Typhoons, or by other countries air forces.
PaulG40 said:
Just a shame that the Typhoons are currently next to useless operationally.
Err....... go on, I'll bite 
In what way next to useless?
They are the only AD asset we have now, and AD is what you'd need to enforce a NFZ. If Tiffie wasn't operationally capable it would have been a bit pointless sending four of them down to the Falkland Island
However, my bet is the UK, the septics or any combo of NATO memebers won't be touching a Libya NFZ or any other mil op with a barge pole.
I realise I may be a bit late to the party but judging by the subject matter you guys may be interested in my blog on reuters.com "Libya crisis could scupper British aircraft carriers once and for all". http://blogs.reuters.com/uknews/2011/03/21/libya-c...
pchoskins said:
I realise I may be a bit late to the party but judging by the subject matter you guys may be interested in my blog on reuters.com "Libya crisis could scupper British aircraft carriers once and for all". http://blogs.reuters.com/uknews/2011/03/21/libya-c...
Competely disagree. It may take four days to get a carrier from UK to the Med, but once it's there it's there and far quicker and cheaper to fly missions from. Operations like this take months not days anyway. Get your 'base' as close to where it's needed with safety.pchoskins said:
I realise I may be a bit late to the party but judging by the subject matter you guys may be interested in my blog on reuters.com "Libya crisis could scupper British aircraft carriers once and for all". http://blogs.reuters.com/uknews/2011/03/21/libya-c...
That's a remarkably short sighted view. The libya intervention has been tailored not just for what we should do, but what we can do. Suppose we'd decided to provide close air support. How do you envisage that working when you get a troops in contact call and the cas aircraft are 1500 miles away?
To put things into perspective,
3X B2's have effectively wiped out the Libyan Air Force overnight (48 shelters targeted with 2000lb JDAM's) unseen and undetected.
Mission flown from/to continental US.
GR4 pictured taking off loaded with targeting pod, 1x PW4 and 3 Brimstone, CAS load. Mission flown from the UK.
'nuff said.
Bye bye carriers and F35.
3X B2's have effectively wiped out the Libyan Air Force overnight (48 shelters targeted with 2000lb JDAM's) unseen and undetected.
Mission flown from/to continental US.
GR4 pictured taking off loaded with targeting pod, 1x PW4 and 3 Brimstone, CAS load. Mission flown from the UK.
'nuff said.
Bye bye carriers and F35.
andy400 said:
Do we? 
Malta has hardly any military connection with the UK anymore, and in a "Times of Malta" online poll a couple of days ago, over 55% of respondants didn't even want to get involved in the conflict, although they have given the OK to fly over their airspace.(Malta is around 60 miles away from Libya)
PaulG40 said:
I meant as in operationally capable in all respects, not just in CAP roles. I.E. if it kicked off and a SEAD requirement was necessary they cannot provide it as part of the UK NATO side of things.
Not that, from the looks of it, there will be a NFZ setup anyhow, so we need not worry.
Surely SEAD would be carried out by Tornados rather than Typhoons?Not that, from the looks of it, there will be a NFZ setup anyhow, so we need not worry.
Mojocvh said:
To put things into perspective,
3X B2's have effectively wiped out the Libyan Air Force overnight (48 shelters targeted with 2000lb JDAM's) unseen and undetected.
Mission flown from/to continental US.
GR4 pictured taking off loaded with targeting pod, 1x PW4 and 3 Brimstone, CAS load. Mission flown from the UK.
'nuff said.
Bye bye carriers and F35.
Which is all fine and dandy for 1st/2nd night initial strikes......and as we arn't putting boots on ground, it's not a big deal in THIS scenario.3X B2's have effectively wiped out the Libyan Air Force overnight (48 shelters targeted with 2000lb JDAM's) unseen and undetected.
Mission flown from/to continental US.
GR4 pictured taking off loaded with targeting pod, 1x PW4 and 3 Brimstone, CAS load. Mission flown from the UK.
'nuff said.
Bye bye carriers and F35.
What happens after 2 or 3 weeks...?
Or we were looking at a boots on ground situation?
Long range intercontinental missions become an equally expensive was of doing CAS than having a carrier group.
And even if it's bye bye carriers (and not because of whats happened in the past few days) it won't neccessary be bye bye F35, as we will ultimately need something to replace the GR4's, which may well be F35, but in A flavour, rather than C flavour.
aeropilot said:
Which is all fine and dandy for 1st/2nd night initial strikes......and as we arn't putting boots on ground, it's not a big deal in THIS scenario.
What happens after 2 or 3 weeks...?
Or we were looking at a boots on ground situation?
We would either use a friendly neighbouring country's airbases or alternatively we wouldn't go to war.What happens after 2 or 3 weeks...?
Or we were looking at a boots on ground situation?
We cannot afford to have a military that covers all possible eventualities. Hopefully the one we have covers most of the probable ones.
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