Safety Cars in Club Racing
Discussion
There seems to be an inconsistency in when or even if safety cars are deployed in club races.
At the 750 MC meet at Brands on Sunday, there were several race stoppages to retrieve stranded cars. Only one incident was truely worthy of a full blown halt but the others could have quickly been delt with under the SC.
Instead, there were lengthy delays and a lot of wet and very bored spectators.
Last year, the BRSCC used the yellow control flag which seemed on the face of it to work well, whilst at other meetings, races continued even with cars only just in the gravel.
Discuss!
At the 750 MC meet at Brands on Sunday, there were several race stoppages to retrieve stranded cars. Only one incident was truely worthy of a full blown halt but the others could have quickly been delt with under the SC.
Instead, there were lengthy delays and a lot of wet and very bored spectators.
Last year, the BRSCC used the yellow control flag which seemed on the face of it to work well, whilst at other meetings, races continued even with cars only just in the gravel.
Discuss!
Some championships deliberately do not have a safety car policy. We have only just introduced one in the Ginettas - essentially as we had a race red flagged twice at Silverstone, which was a disaster.
The problem with the SC is that it can take up a high percentage of the race. Our races can be concluded after 12 laps (and these are long races, most championships are not much more than half our distance). If the SC is out for 6 laps therefore, then it could halve the minimum lenght of the race (in effect only running 30% of the race). If this acts against a front runner, then teddy bears fly I'm afraid.
The problem with the SC is that it can take up a high percentage of the race. Our races can be concluded after 12 laps (and these are long races, most championships are not much more than half our distance). If the SC is out for 6 laps therefore, then it could halve the minimum lenght of the race (in effect only running 30% of the race). If this acts against a front runner, then teddy bears fly I'm afraid.
steviebee,
the use of safety cars is a delicate balance between race distance and time the SC will be on track.
I was at the 750MC meeting and can say that the calls for stoppages were very few, and those made had valid reasons, apart from the wreckage strewn across the entry to Paddock Hill, there was a driver in the FVee's who decided that the tyres at Paddock Hill was an ideal place to stop (there were already 2 cars off there), however, the 3rd driver was seen by the observer on post not to be moving, I for sure would not want to have to extract someone while cars are racing past.
As for the Black/Yellow quartered, this was withdrawn due to some drivers ignoring it
the use of safety cars is a delicate balance between race distance and time the SC will be on track.
I was at the 750MC meeting and can say that the calls for stoppages were very few, and those made had valid reasons, apart from the wreckage strewn across the entry to Paddock Hill, there was a driver in the FVee's who decided that the tyres at Paddock Hill was an ideal place to stop (there were already 2 cars off there), however, the 3rd driver was seen by the observer on post not to be moving, I for sure would not want to have to extract someone while cars are racing past.
As for the Black/Yellow quartered, this was withdrawn due to some drivers ignoring it
im afraid in most cases the its driver conduct that causes race stoppages ( unless a very serious accident)
The Clerk of the course will always try and keep a race running, and if drivers are obeying the yellows he will let it run with cars in iffy positions.
i.e at Brands the other year 2 tasmins went straight on at the hairpin at brands and ended up beached in the gravel on the first lap, right where you would go off. everyone yeilded to the yellows and the race continued...
and then again i was out the other day watching some racing, 2 cars went off at a corner, then along comes another 2 still on it ignoring the yellow go off and hit he stopped cars... result 4 totaled cars (instead of 2 lightly damaged) and race stopped. If the other 2 had backed off the first 2 would have recovered and the race continued...
Same problem with the Yellow and Black quartered i thought it worked very well when it was used in my first season. but some drivers ignore it and carry on full chat.. so its withdrawn...
As to the saftey car, there just isnt enough time.. the average club race is probably 20-25 mins start to finish.. if we all had bigger grids ran for 45-60 mins then maybe..
The Clerk of the course will always try and keep a race running, and if drivers are obeying the yellows he will let it run with cars in iffy positions.
i.e at Brands the other year 2 tasmins went straight on at the hairpin at brands and ended up beached in the gravel on the first lap, right where you would go off. everyone yeilded to the yellows and the race continued...
and then again i was out the other day watching some racing, 2 cars went off at a corner, then along comes another 2 still on it ignoring the yellow go off and hit he stopped cars... result 4 totaled cars (instead of 2 lightly damaged) and race stopped. If the other 2 had backed off the first 2 would have recovered and the race continued...
Same problem with the Yellow and Black quartered i thought it worked very well when it was used in my first season. but some drivers ignore it and carry on full chat.. so its withdrawn...
As to the saftey car, there just isnt enough time.. the average club race is probably 20-25 mins start to finish.. if we all had bigger grids ran for 45-60 mins then maybe..
The problem with the black/yellow flag is that not all drivers obeyed it (or possibly knew what to do). The leader is supposed to slow down to about 50mph with the rest of the field bunching up behind them and then slowing to 50 as well.
In many instances, the leaders wouldn't slow down enough (sometimes difficult to do when you don't have a speedo and after driving at race speeds, 50mph seems very slow), or the rest of the field would slow right down to 50 without bunching up behind the leader. This would result in the whole field spread around the circuit, which didn't leave a big enough gap to give the marshals sufficient time to attend to the incident.
There was also a tragic incident at a 750MC meeting at Mallory Park a few years ago where it was bought out during a Caterham race and the leaders slowed but the cars behind them didn't, resulting in one of the following drivers hitting the barrier and being killed.
As a racer, it is frustrating to have a race red flagged, but if it is my car that is left in a dangerous position and liable to be collected by someone else, or myself that is stuck in a car needing attention then I'm all for them.
The other thing to bear in mind is that you may not be able to see why the race has been red flagged, so there may be a perfectly valid reason for it, but out of your sight.
I don't think safety cars would work particularly well in club racing either, as some drivers seem to struggle with the concept of waved yellow flags, and bring out the safety car would probably cause almost as much confusion as the yellow/black flags and wouldn't actually save any time.
In many instances, the leaders wouldn't slow down enough (sometimes difficult to do when you don't have a speedo and after driving at race speeds, 50mph seems very slow), or the rest of the field would slow right down to 50 without bunching up behind the leader. This would result in the whole field spread around the circuit, which didn't leave a big enough gap to give the marshals sufficient time to attend to the incident.
There was also a tragic incident at a 750MC meeting at Mallory Park a few years ago where it was bought out during a Caterham race and the leaders slowed but the cars behind them didn't, resulting in one of the following drivers hitting the barrier and being killed.
As a racer, it is frustrating to have a race red flagged, but if it is my car that is left in a dangerous position and liable to be collected by someone else, or myself that is stuck in a car needing attention then I'm all for them.
The other thing to bear in mind is that you may not be able to see why the race has been red flagged, so there may be a perfectly valid reason for it, but out of your sight.
I don't think safety cars would work particularly well in club racing either, as some drivers seem to struggle with the concept of waved yellow flags, and bring out the safety car would probably cause almost as much confusion as the yellow/black flags and wouldn't actually save any time.
Having said all that, we had our first SC at the weekend, and it worked very well. We possibly lost 3 laps of the race (2 under SC), and the first corner carnage was safely cleared away (with a display of bent bonnets in the padock for the rest of the weekend to show for it 
).
If the race was red flagged, we would have lost a whole load more of the 25 minute race, so
. The SC was a major item in the pre race briefing however, which obviously helps, and as we share a steward with the F3 boys, he is quick to investigate any missunderstandings on the track .
On the negative side, the SC board was still out at the hairpin before the S/F straight at Croft on the in lap - which caught a few of us out. Looks like the Marshalls (or their controller) need a bit of a briefing too in order to make it work perfectly.
Totally agree with what Ed said - I think one of the worst feelings in racing (safety matters aside), is watching your car get totalled from the pit wall, after you have carefully parked it the first corner gravel trap!
). If the race was red flagged, we would have lost a whole load more of the 25 minute race, so
. The SC was a major item in the pre race briefing however, which obviously helps, and as we share a steward with the F3 boys, he is quick to investigate any missunderstandings on the track . On the negative side, the SC board was still out at the hairpin before the S/F straight at Croft on the in lap - which caught a few of us out. Looks like the Marshalls (or their controller) need a bit of a briefing too in order to make it work perfectly.
Totally agree with what Ed said - I think one of the worst feelings in racing (safety matters aside), is watching your car get totalled from the pit wall, after you have carefully
parked it the first corner gravel trap!There are several problems with all of this. Firstly too many people with either no understanding of the sport OR no ability are able to get a licence because the ARDS process is too simply and inconsistant.
However drivers do shunt and that is part of motorsport so we have to be able to deal with it. The deployment of a SC does not have to detract from the number of racing laps because the regualtions can allow for the first X number of SC laps to be ignored as racing laps.
The problem in club racing is that very few people - including CoC know how to use one. This leads to a variety of problems including when the SC is released and who is driving it - a problem very apparent at Brands Hatch. In particular at the Formula Ford Festival where it caused a major shunt.
However the biggest problem is officials not understanding how a SC works. Once deployed and it has picked up the leader everyone else should form up reasonably tight behind - obviously paying attention to yellows on the way around to catch up.
Sadly this hardly ever happens and results in people holding back - un-sure of what to do.
Of course our officals generally do a good job but there are a few who see the driver as a pain and inconvenience - when frankly without drivers no racing will happen.
Typical example of this is when you get called for a stop/go which turns into a stop....wait for a patronising lecture, etc, blah, blah... and then go. Which isn't in the blue book. If a driver needs talking to then the time and place is with the CoC after the race.
However drivers do shunt and that is part of motorsport so we have to be able to deal with it. The deployment of a SC does not have to detract from the number of racing laps because the regualtions can allow for the first X number of SC laps to be ignored as racing laps.
The problem in club racing is that very few people - including CoC know how to use one. This leads to a variety of problems including when the SC is released and who is driving it - a problem very apparent at Brands Hatch. In particular at the Formula Ford Festival where it caused a major shunt.
However the biggest problem is officials not understanding how a SC works. Once deployed and it has picked up the leader everyone else should form up reasonably tight behind - obviously paying attention to yellows on the way around to catch up.
Sadly this hardly ever happens and results in people holding back - un-sure of what to do.
Of course our officals generally do a good job but there are a few who see the driver as a pain and inconvenience - when frankly without drivers no racing will happen.
Typical example of this is when you get called for a stop/go which turns into a stop....wait for a patronising lecture, etc, blah, blah... and then go. Which isn't in the blue book. If a driver needs talking to then the time and place is with the CoC after the race.
With regards to the quartered (pace-car) flag being withdrawn....
My information is this.
The MSA has adopted FIA flag and start light procedures. Those procedures do not include a quartered flag, so we don't get one anymore.
Driver's briefings I've attended this year have told us to "observe the yellow flags" and "if you don't all slow down enough, we'll red flag the race".
Highly ambiguous in my opinion.
It's all very well adopting international procedures, but remember that "International" race meetings are high profile, and will have a proper safety car/driver.
Maybe an idea for us "Clubbies" would be a "Full course Yellow" like the Americans have.
My information is this.
The MSA has adopted FIA flag and start light procedures. Those procedures do not include a quartered flag, so we don't get one anymore.
Driver's briefings I've attended this year have told us to "observe the yellow flags" and "if you don't all slow down enough, we'll red flag the race".
Highly ambiguous in my opinion.
It's all very well adopting international procedures, but remember that "International" race meetings are high profile, and will have a proper safety car/driver.
Maybe an idea for us "Clubbies" would be a "Full course Yellow" like the Americans have.
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