Advice needed - main dealer pulling a fast one
Discussion
My wife took her C-Max in for a service yesterday with a Ford main dealer.
It's been faultless since she's had it from when it was six months old.It's now seven years old.
The car was delivered back yesterday evening and was left parked outside our house overnight.
This morning she drove it for about 5 miles and it started playing up, coughing and spluttering and losing power.
She was furious and took it back to the garage, gave them the key and told them to sort it out.
She rang the garage to check what was happening as it was getting late, only to be told that the glow plugs had gone and we would be car-less until some time on Monday.
Now I'm no mechanic but surely the glowplugs won't affect the performance once the engine is running?
Anyway, I'd like some advice because the car went in running perfectly and now it's faulty (whatever the problem).
I think the garage shouldn't charge and that it was possibly mis-adjusted or something wasn't tightened properly when it was serviced.
Anyone been in a similar position?
It's been faultless since she's had it from when it was six months old.It's now seven years old.
The car was delivered back yesterday evening and was left parked outside our house overnight.
This morning she drove it for about 5 miles and it started playing up, coughing and spluttering and losing power.
She was furious and took it back to the garage, gave them the key and told them to sort it out.
She rang the garage to check what was happening as it was getting late, only to be told that the glow plugs had gone and we would be car-less until some time on Monday.
Now I'm no mechanic but surely the glowplugs won't affect the performance once the engine is running?
Anyway, I'd like some advice because the car went in running perfectly and now it's faulty (whatever the problem).
I think the garage shouldn't charge and that it was possibly mis-adjusted or something wasn't tightened properly when it was serviced.
Anyone been in a similar position?
This is utter bol---cks from the garage.
Once its running the Glow Plugs switch off. Cant be right.
My mate had the same problem with his disabled wife's CMAX.
Dealer tried to charge a fortune.
I had a lengthy conversation with the service manager who retired hurt.
Refund of all charges.
I would fight this all the way. Its never right.
Probably not a coincidence that it misfired only after service.
Very suspicious.
I would be looking for misplaced filter/effect of service work carried out. Too much of a coincidence.
Make a fuss threaten legal action involve the manufacturers. Its a try on..
Once its running the Glow Plugs switch off. Cant be right.
My mate had the same problem with his disabled wife's CMAX.
Dealer tried to charge a fortune.
I had a lengthy conversation with the service manager who retired hurt.
Refund of all charges.
I would fight this all the way. Its never right.
Probably not a coincidence that it misfired only after service.
Very suspicious.
I would be looking for misplaced filter/effect of service work carried out. Too much of a coincidence.
Make a fuss threaten legal action involve the manufacturers. Its a try on..
Modern diesels actually do use their glow plugs to regulate engine temperature on the go for emissions purposes, so the garages diagnosis may well be correct.
Might be just a coincednce...
BTW I'm in the trade (not Ford though) I get rather bored of customers with no technical knowledge what so ever, making accusations of wrong doing!
Might be just a coincednce...
BTW I'm in the trade (not Ford though) I get rather bored of customers with no technical knowledge what so ever, making accusations of wrong doing!
Si_steve said:
Wrong, Only used during starting.
No you're wrong. Better luck next time. Glowplugs ARE used once the engine is running, even on the old Pug XDIII 2.3 diesel from the 80's are the glowplugs left running after starting on cold starts - to warm the cylinders and prevent the plooms of blue smoke associated with cool cylinder temps. Especially when ambient air temp is low, cold ambient air can cool the cylinders enough to seriously effect combustion until the engine is warmed up enough.
To all the 'wrong, glow plugs are only used for starting' party - sorry, but you're all wrong...
Glow plugs on old diesels were only used for starting, however; glow plugs on common rail diesels are used during running to maintain consistent cylinder temps, and subsequently a cleaner burn
This isn't a new thing, it's technology that's been used for a while now. Most common rail diesels actually monitor the resistance of the glow plug circuit, and will put the car into limp home if they fail
Glow plugs on old diesels were only used for starting, however; glow plugs on common rail diesels are used during running to maintain consistent cylinder temps, and subsequently a cleaner burn
This isn't a new thing, it's technology that's been used for a while now. Most common rail diesels actually monitor the resistance of the glow plug circuit, and will put the car into limp home if they fail
HellDiver said:
No you're wrong. Better luck next time.
Glowplugs ARE used once the engine is running, even on the old Pug XDIII 2.3 diesel from the 80's are the glowplugs left running after starting on cold starts - to warm the cylinders and prevent the plooms of blue smoke associated with cool cylinder temps. Especially when ambient air temp is low, cold ambient air can cool the cylinders enough to seriously effect combustion until the engine is warmed up enough.
My apologies, I have only experience on old perkins motors(I'm talking the old 8.8 litre things and the massey 50B engine) and was only talking from experience on them. Apart from that a 306 XUD is my only other claim to devils fuel ownership, and my only maintenence on that was a cambelt and oil change as the car only cost £100Glowplugs ARE used once the engine is running, even on the old Pug XDIII 2.3 diesel from the 80's are the glowplugs left running after starting on cold starts - to warm the cylinders and prevent the plooms of blue smoke associated with cool cylinder temps. Especially when ambient air temp is low, cold ambient air can cool the cylinders enough to seriously effect combustion until the engine is warmed up enough.
Either way, faulty glow plugs will impact on starting first,then maybe a bit of smoke whilst warming up but they will not cause a proper running problem like the OP describes. Also, on most cars, the glow plugs can be changed fairly swiftly and would be a stock item at the dealers so no reason why it should take that long.
That said, if your Mrs went in with guns blazing and it wasn't anything to do with the garage then they probably won't be motivated to get it done quickly. Also worth considering the number of people who drop their car off for a service without mentioning any problems but still expect even the most intermittent of faults to be magically cured when they pick it up again (yep, I work in the trade as well!); not trying to excuse poor service or suggest that this applies to the OP but there are a lot more pi$$ taking customers out there than dodgy garages so even the good ones become a bit cynical about any conversation that begins with "ever since you had my car in here....................."
That said, if your Mrs went in with guns blazing and it wasn't anything to do with the garage then they probably won't be motivated to get it done quickly. Also worth considering the number of people who drop their car off for a service without mentioning any problems but still expect even the most intermittent of faults to be magically cured when they pick it up again (yep, I work in the trade as well!); not trying to excuse poor service or suggest that this applies to the OP but there are a lot more pi$$ taking customers out there than dodgy garages so even the good ones become a bit cynical about any conversation that begins with "ever since you had my car in here....................."
There isn't much that they do on a service that affects the running. It's not like the old days where you had to replace points and adjust the timing.
Reminds me of the customer who we had in complaining of heavy power steering, the problem turned out to be low front tyre pressures. Upon rectifying the fault and informing the customer, we got the somewhat angry response of 'That's not good enough, I only had it serviced 6 months ago'.
Reminds me of the customer who we had in complaining of heavy power steering, the problem turned out to be low front tyre pressures. Upon rectifying the fault and informing the customer, we got the somewhat angry response of 'That's not good enough, I only had it serviced 6 months ago'.
Qcarchoo said:
Thanks everyone for your comments.
I guess the general consensus is to let it go.
Wouldn`t say that, if the dealer says it `blah blah blah` and is going to cost well into the hundreds I`d ask for a second opinion, if it`s not going to cost much then I would let it go. Remember though that it is a 7 year old car and things wear so it might just be a coincidence.I guess the general consensus is to let it go.
The first thing to do is find out exactly what is wrong.
For a lot of things, you'll find there is no way the dealer could spike or damage something so it'll fail in a few miles and need another repair.
It just doesn't fit, they won't be planning ahead like that, if they wanted to fix some phantom faults, they'd ring up midway through the service and say they's a couple more bits that need repairing whilst it's there.
For a lot of things, you'll find there is no way the dealer could spike or damage something so it'll fail in a few miles and need another repair.
It just doesn't fit, they won't be planning ahead like that, if they wanted to fix some phantom faults, they'd ring up midway through the service and say they's a couple more bits that need repairing whilst it's there.
Steve H said:
Also, on most cars, the glow plugs can be changed fairly swiftly and would be a stock item at the dealers so no reason why it should take that loong
if its a 1.8 then its easy if not they are buried,and besides they may throw up a dtc which could throw the car into limp mode.Not likely to be "spluttering and losing power" due to limp mode.
I think the answer is that if you feel you can trust them then let them do the repair and pay the bill, if you aren't so sure then take it to somewhere independent and get them to see what the fault is, it's a judgement call that only you can make really...................
I think the answer is that if you feel you can trust them then let them do the repair and pay the bill, if you aren't so sure then take it to somewhere independent and get them to see what the fault is, it's a judgement call that only you can make really...................
Stick some premium diesel in it. If it has been near a supermarket, could have got some duff fuel.
Only time i ever got the limp mode and engine light on in the mondeo was in Belgium after filling up with cheap derv. And it still took 100 miles to come on.
So V power diesel in German cured it, so much so, it made the clutch slip with all the torque!!
Only time i ever got the limp mode and engine light on in the mondeo was in Belgium after filling up with cheap derv. And it still took 100 miles to come on.
So V power diesel in German cured it, so much so, it made the clutch slip with all the torque!!
TheEnd said:
The first thing to do is find out exactly what is wrong.
For a lot of things, you'll find there is no way the dealer could spike or damage something so it'll fail in a few miles and need another repair.
It just doesn't fit, they won't be planning ahead like that, if they wanted to fix some phantom faults, they'd ring up midway through the service and say they's a couple more bits that need repairing whilst it's there.
Just in case this is aimed at me, I don't mean that the dealer had deliberately created a fault so they could fix it, but that something was not put back properly or knocked during the service to cause it to go wrong which is why it was immediate....For a lot of things, you'll find there is no way the dealer could spike or damage something so it'll fail in a few miles and need another repair.
It just doesn't fit, they won't be planning ahead like that, if they wanted to fix some phantom faults, they'd ring up midway through the service and say they's a couple more bits that need repairing whilst it's there.
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