High profile tyres, soft suspension
Discussion
Anyone else gone from enjoying, stiffly sprung cars with little ground clearance and low profile tyres?
I have just restored a completely standard Renault 5 GT Turbo which has relatively soft suspension and high profile tyres compared to modern cars, I must say it does make traveling across our third world roads more manageable than in my modern everyday Audi. I am not old by any means but such is the deterioration of the roads everywhere (south bucks/berks) driving a modern performance car is just not enjoyable with these conditions...and don't start me on tax on fuel.
A friend today announced that he is to move to a far less sporty new car for this very reason.
I love the idea of an 997 GT3 RS on a track day but not on our roads.
I have just restored a completely standard Renault 5 GT Turbo which has relatively soft suspension and high profile tyres compared to modern cars, I must say it does make traveling across our third world roads more manageable than in my modern everyday Audi. I am not old by any means but such is the deterioration of the roads everywhere (south bucks/berks) driving a modern performance car is just not enjoyable with these conditions...and don't start me on tax on fuel.
A friend today announced that he is to move to a far less sporty new car for this very reason.
I love the idea of an 997 GT3 RS on a track day but not on our roads.
I wonder if overly stiff suspension was chosen by the marketing department instead of the engineers. I can't believe that all of the German manufacturers, for example, would design a rock-solid suspension + giant wheel combo and forget that it ruins the ride when you are not chasing Nurburgring records.
kambites said:
Modern car wheels/tyre and suspension setups are just stupid, especially in hot hatches and compact execs. People seem to have got it into their heads that sporty = hard riding, despite the fact that many of these cars are so stiff that it ruins the handling on most road surfaces. 
Personally, as someone who lives in Northern England, I'd rather have a car that is good on undulating, twisting hill roads (and better over potholes and speed humps as a side-effect) than something that would be more suited to a smoooooth race circuit. Tarmac rally style rather than DTM.
I often hear people telling others about the new car they're getting and saying something along the lines of,
"I'm paying a bit extra to get the 19s"
"Why are you doing that? It won't drive as well on most roads" I ask
"Yeah, but it looks better".
What is the end-point? Solid rubber strips on massive, heavy rims that flex in the absence of springs and dampers?
When I next get a fun car, I'll be tempted to fit smaller wheels.
I often hear people telling others about the new car they're getting and saying something along the lines of,
"I'm paying a bit extra to get the 19s"
"Why are you doing that? It won't drive as well on most roads" I ask
"Yeah, but it looks better".
What is the end-point? Solid rubber strips on massive, heavy rims that flex in the absence of springs and dampers?
When I next get a fun car, I'll be tempted to fit smaller wheels.
Edited by MC Bodge on Monday 21st March 19:52
Just bought a boggo 1.8 mk1 foucs ghia, 89,000 mile old suspension and 185/65/14 tyres. Ringing its neck, it would wee all over tons of stuff on the bumpy roads i live on.
i stuck my mx5 on coilovers a while ago and it was s
te, put it back on soggy old standard stuff and on REAL uk country roads its awesome again!
i stuck my mx5 on coilovers a while ago and it was s
te, put it back on soggy old standard stuff and on REAL uk country roads its awesome again!All comes down to track width and CoG height, low wide cars can get away with soft suspension as body roll is lesser for and given cornering G.
To resist roll in a higher car you need stiff suspension and stiffer roll bars, which reduces traction, not to mention ride implications.
As for tyres, look at the elastic bands on a range rover 'sport' compared to a Le Mans car, and tell me low profile tyres are sporty.
To resist roll in a higher car you need stiff suspension and stiffer roll bars, which reduces traction, not to mention ride implications.
As for tyres, look at the elastic bands on a range rover 'sport' compared to a Le Mans car, and tell me low profile tyres are sporty.
im thinking of changing car due to the roads aswell
i drive an e46 saloon with 225/40 and 255/35. and its just such a chore weaving around every bump and pthole in the road. even drains but which have now sunk about an inch or 2 into the road.
when i get to work i drive a vauxhall combi van with 185/60s i believe, in comparison i would call the vauxhall the ultimate driving experience being that my back doesnt hurt in it.
i drive an e46 saloon with 225/40 and 255/35. and its just such a chore weaving around every bump and pthole in the road. even drains but which have now sunk about an inch or 2 into the road.
when i get to work i drive a vauxhall combi van with 185/60s i believe, in comparison i would call the vauxhall the ultimate driving experience being that my back doesnt hurt in it.
kambites said:
Modern car wheels/tyre and suspension setups are just stupid, especially in hot hatches and compact execs. People seem to have got it into their heads that sporty = hard riding, despite the fact that many of these cars are so stiff that it ruins the handling on most road surfaces. Deja vu
Although oddly different in some respects...
... one thing that I don't think we discussed before was that stiffer suspension and tyres undoubtedly makes the car feel sharper and more responsive (because it transmits more of the instantaneousd changes in loads directly to the chassis), but that's a double-edged sword: apart from the degradation in grip on less-than-perfect surfaces, it means that you get less progression in the cars handling behaviour, making it less easy to exploit if you're not a driving God.
Although oddly different in some respects...
deveng said:
To resist roll in a higher car you need stiff suspension and stiffer roll bars, which reduces traction, not to mention ride implications.
deveng previously said:
...As for not being able to drive as quick I drive much quicker ...in my heavily sprung Audi with rubber band tyres...
... one thing that I don't think we discussed before was that stiffer suspension and tyres undoubtedly makes the car feel sharper and more responsive (because it transmits more of the instantaneousd changes in loads directly to the chassis), but that's a double-edged sword: apart from the degradation in grip on less-than-perfect surfaces, it means that you get less progression in the cars handling behaviour, making it less easy to exploit if you're not a driving God.
i am just going through the same process on my st205, it has been lowered and got adjustable shocks which were set to their hardest,its so hard its just not enjoyable to drive and with the state of the roads i slow down for every bit of crap road there is , and theres plenty round here.
so i have found some standard springs and have adjusted the shocks to their softest, next is a set of 16in wheels and it should handle loads better.
as op said i reckon i will have better journey times and a lot more fun in the car than i have had up till now
so i have found some standard springs and have adjusted the shocks to their softest, next is a set of 16in wheels and it should handle loads better.
as op said i reckon i will have better journey times and a lot more fun in the car than i have had up till now
LeoSayer said:
It's about looks and nothing else.
The sad thing is that even Caterham - who you would have thought would deliver what is necessary for the best driving experience and to hell with looks - readily admit that they fit wheels and tyres that are bigger than is optimum for their cars, simply because that's what their customers expect to see. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff