Why are Police now enforcing laws & advising cyclists?
Discussion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-250804...
Why has it taken the recent spike of deaths to trigger this action? It is not as if the recent deaths are anything above the normal annual figures!
Courtesy of http://fullfact.org/factchecks/londons_cyclists_ro...
Meanwhile is there any legal basis for offering riders "advice"?
Surely that could be done by volunteers from BRAKE rather than using police resources, and leave the police to tackle all those unfit vehicles!
BBC News said:
About 2,500 traffic police officers will be on London's streets during rush hours following the deaths of six cyclists over 14 days.
Operation Safeway will see Metropolitan Police officers deployed at 166 key junctions where they will issue fixed penalty notices to people breaking road traffic laws.
About 650 officers will be at 60 sites across London on Monday.
There have been 14 cyclist deaths in London this year, nine involving HGVs.
The officers will also be offering advice to anyone seen putting themselves or other road uses at risk. This includes pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists and other motorists.
The number of police and locations will rise as the operation progresses. The force said it would continue until Christmas when it would then be reviewed.
The force said the operation was not costing it extra money.
Why the sudden change in attitude to cyclists? Apparently this operation has resulted in many cyclists being stopped and "advised" over matters such as cutting corners and wearing headphones, while some of the HGVs stopped have been found to be unfit for the road!Operation Safeway will see Metropolitan Police officers deployed at 166 key junctions where they will issue fixed penalty notices to people breaking road traffic laws.
About 650 officers will be at 60 sites across London on Monday.
There have been 14 cyclist deaths in London this year, nine involving HGVs.
The officers will also be offering advice to anyone seen putting themselves or other road uses at risk. This includes pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists and other motorists.
The number of police and locations will rise as the operation progresses. The force said it would continue until Christmas when it would then be reviewed.
The force said the operation was not costing it extra money.
Why has it taken the recent spike of deaths to trigger this action? It is not as if the recent deaths are anything above the normal annual figures!
Courtesy of http://fullfact.org/factchecks/londons_cyclists_ro...
Meanwhile is there any legal basis for offering riders "advice"?
Surely that could be done by volunteers from BRAKE rather than using police resources, and leave the police to tackle all those unfit vehicles!
Monkeylegend said:
They were all over St Pancras this morning, stopping cyclists and motorists. They were checking the tatty looking seat belts on a Transit so beware.
I can't help wondering why this sudden crackdown?Was this not an important measure to ensure safety and compliance with the law until now?
What happens when the fuss over a few cyclists dies down... will we return to the normal scheme of things where a number of unfit vehicles escape detection?
The report DOES say that this operation has NOT required additional funding...
Met Spokesperson said:
The number of police and locations will rise as the operation progresses. The force said it would continue until Christmas when it would then be reviewed.
The force said the operation was not costing it extra money.
The force said the operation was not costing it extra money.
Funk said:
ewenm said:
Media shout about the autumn spike in deaths => Police Chief gets his ear bent by the government => Police operation instigated.
Yep - the ol' "..seen to be doing something..." knee-jerk.Long overdue might be a phrase that springs to mind - the Met run the risk that the success of this, brings calls as to why they didn't address this earlier!
Hol said:
Mill Wheel,
I cannot help but notice that your concern is that 'unfit' vehicles will not be identified 'when this all dies down'. (ignoring the annual MOT for now).
Are we to assume that you believe that there are no 'unfit' cyclists also? (I do not see this balance of opnion in your comments?)
It seems to me that while the police have managed to identify vehicles that were unfit (despite the 12 month MoT requirement) and ticket drivers for breaking the law, they don't seem to be able to nail the cyclists who put themselves at risk, OR break the law, merely offer them "advice".I cannot help but notice that your concern is that 'unfit' vehicles will not be identified 'when this all dies down'. (ignoring the annual MOT for now).
Are we to assume that you believe that there are no 'unfit' cyclists also? (I do not see this balance of opnion in your comments?)
Boris has threatened to ban headphones... I'm not sure how it would be enforced, but if he DOES have the power to ban them, he needs to get on and do it - and do something to ensure cyclists wear suitable HiVis clothing.
I wear a helmet from choice - but if it can be shown that not wearing one presents a risk, then I would be happy to see them made compulsory.
Perhaps if INSURANCE was made compulsory for cyclists, all necessary steps to preserve one's safety on a bike would follow without needing any new laws... lights, helmets, clothing... although they won't be able to adjust rider attitude!!
BGarside said:
Devil2575 said:
But how often did you think "it's ok, I won't be held liable for any damaged caused"?
Somehow I can't imagine many cyclists enjoy bouncing off cars because they will evade liability for panel damage.Personally I maintain as much space between myself and the idiots that are trying to kill me as possible (i.e: the average British driver), at least when I have the ability to...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mypFV_tQSrc
What I find puzzling about this clip is the manner in which other cyclists who take the route between the bus and the 4x4, or travel up the inside of the bus after the collision!
rambo19 said:
I read somewhere that the police were offering 'words of advice'.
I wonder if they issued any FPN's to cyclists.
I think not - there seems to be very little they can be ticketed for, hence the "words of advice".I wonder if they issued any FPN's to cyclists.
There have been calls to have helmets made compulsory, and some hear have said that this would lead to less cyclists taking to the road.
Nothing wrong with that - less cyclists = less incidents involving cyclists, and those that are involved would be better protected.
You don't hear many people calling for drink driving to be allowed to help rural pubs, or people saying they WOULD drive, but object to wearing a seatbelt!
Motorcyclists have had to wear helmets for years for perfectly good reasons.
Has anyone seen any evidence that cyclists are being issued with FPNs during this crackdown?
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/a...
It appears that the Met have issued a target for each police officer - TEN tickets a month!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUftM2SAIus
This offence happens so fast, I/m not sure you could police it.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/a...
It appears that the Met have issued a target for each police officer - TEN tickets a month!
The Times said:
Traffic police given target to fine 10 cyclists a month
Police officers have been ordered to fine 10 cyclists a month each for road traffic offences after a spate of deaths among bicycle riders.
The order provoked outrage from safety campaigners and cycle groups, who claimed that cyclists were being unfairly targeted.
It also flew in the face of a call from Theresa May, the Home Secretary, to phase out target-driven bureaucracy in the police force.
Thousands of traffic police officers have been deployed at 166 key junctions in London this week with orders to issue fixed-penalty notices to anyone seen breaking road traffic laws and to give cyclists safety advice. Operation Safeway follows the deaths of six cyclists in 13 days up to November 18.
However, The Times has seen an e-mail from a senior police officer sent on the day of the last death urging all traffic police in his area to target cyclists.
“All, can you please cascade this onto your troops,” the e-mail from Inspector Colin Davies of the Metropolitan Police’s South East Area Traffic Garage, began. “Officers have four months to do 40 cycle tickets. Ten per month, 2.5 a week. Most officers are nearing or have even achieved their other targets. This will give them a renewed focus for a while.”
Serving officers said that the request amounted to “discrimination” against cyclists, and questioned how issuing £50 fines against cyclists would help to save lives.
Chris Boardman, the Olympic gold medallist and adviser to British Cycling, said that police should target lorries, vans and cars. “If you don’t have the resources to prosecute everyone who breaks the law, then it makes sense to start with the people who can cause the most harm and work down from there. The bigger and heavier the vehicle you have got, the more damage you are going to do,” he said. “I certainly would not let law-breaking cyclists off the hook but they wouldn’t be top of my list.”
Edmund King, president of the AA, said: “In terms of traffic policing, we do not think there should be targets for cyclists or drivers. It should be about targeting the most dangerous people on the road, irrespective of some arbitrary target. Targets put pressure on some police officers to give tickets when they are not required.”
Roger Geffen, policy director at the CTC cyclists’ organisation, said: “They may well nick cyclists for things which are not offences. If it leads to that sort of perverse enforcement then that would be very worrying.”
Mary Creagh, the Shadow Transport Secretary, said: “I am concerned that the police have a target for ticketing cyclists. Effective enforcement of traffic laws can support safer cycling, but the law should apply equally to all road users.”
Mrs May told a police symposium in the autumn that senior officers were bringing back targets as a “security blanket”. She said: “Those targets certainly aren’t coming from me and they aren’t being used to increase the effectiveness of policing.”
Chief Superintendent Glyn Jones, head of the Met’s Traffic Command, confirmed that he had reviewed performance targets after the cyclist fatalities and set a target of 40 tickets per officer for jumping traffic lights, careless or inconsiderate cycling, stopping in safe zones for cyclists at traffic lights or on cycle superhighways.
“The e-mail from the inspector was a genuine misinterpretation of my direction. The offences that relate to the cycle highway and advanced stop lines can actually only be committed by motorists; and contravening traffic lights is dangerous regardless of who commits it,” he said.
“Our intention from the very beginning has always been to target dangerous road use by all road users and encourage everyone who uses our roads to be responsible and consider others around them. I am grateful to The Times for bringing the issue to my attention, and that inspector has now issued a corrective instruction to his officers.”
Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said last week that he would not cycle in London but understood why some people might if they could not afford to take public transport.
It seems to me that the best policy would be to target offending full stop. ANY offending, as and when you find it!Police officers have been ordered to fine 10 cyclists a month each for road traffic offences after a spate of deaths among bicycle riders.
The order provoked outrage from safety campaigners and cycle groups, who claimed that cyclists were being unfairly targeted.
It also flew in the face of a call from Theresa May, the Home Secretary, to phase out target-driven bureaucracy in the police force.
Thousands of traffic police officers have been deployed at 166 key junctions in London this week with orders to issue fixed-penalty notices to anyone seen breaking road traffic laws and to give cyclists safety advice. Operation Safeway follows the deaths of six cyclists in 13 days up to November 18.
However, The Times has seen an e-mail from a senior police officer sent on the day of the last death urging all traffic police in his area to target cyclists.
“All, can you please cascade this onto your troops,” the e-mail from Inspector Colin Davies of the Metropolitan Police’s South East Area Traffic Garage, began. “Officers have four months to do 40 cycle tickets. Ten per month, 2.5 a week. Most officers are nearing or have even achieved their other targets. This will give them a renewed focus for a while.”
Serving officers said that the request amounted to “discrimination” against cyclists, and questioned how issuing £50 fines against cyclists would help to save lives.
Chris Boardman, the Olympic gold medallist and adviser to British Cycling, said that police should target lorries, vans and cars. “If you don’t have the resources to prosecute everyone who breaks the law, then it makes sense to start with the people who can cause the most harm and work down from there. The bigger and heavier the vehicle you have got, the more damage you are going to do,” he said. “I certainly would not let law-breaking cyclists off the hook but they wouldn’t be top of my list.”
Edmund King, president of the AA, said: “In terms of traffic policing, we do not think there should be targets for cyclists or drivers. It should be about targeting the most dangerous people on the road, irrespective of some arbitrary target. Targets put pressure on some police officers to give tickets when they are not required.”
Roger Geffen, policy director at the CTC cyclists’ organisation, said: “They may well nick cyclists for things which are not offences. If it leads to that sort of perverse enforcement then that would be very worrying.”
Mary Creagh, the Shadow Transport Secretary, said: “I am concerned that the police have a target for ticketing cyclists. Effective enforcement of traffic laws can support safer cycling, but the law should apply equally to all road users.”
Mrs May told a police symposium in the autumn that senior officers were bringing back targets as a “security blanket”. She said: “Those targets certainly aren’t coming from me and they aren’t being used to increase the effectiveness of policing.”
Chief Superintendent Glyn Jones, head of the Met’s Traffic Command, confirmed that he had reviewed performance targets after the cyclist fatalities and set a target of 40 tickets per officer for jumping traffic lights, careless or inconsiderate cycling, stopping in safe zones for cyclists at traffic lights or on cycle superhighways.
“The e-mail from the inspector was a genuine misinterpretation of my direction. The offences that relate to the cycle highway and advanced stop lines can actually only be committed by motorists; and contravening traffic lights is dangerous regardless of who commits it,” he said.
“Our intention from the very beginning has always been to target dangerous road use by all road users and encourage everyone who uses our roads to be responsible and consider others around them. I am grateful to The Times for bringing the issue to my attention, and that inspector has now issued a corrective instruction to his officers.”
Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said last week that he would not cycle in London but understood why some people might if they could not afford to take public transport.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUftM2SAIus
This offence happens so fast, I/m not sure you could police it.
SVTRick said:
Mill Wheel said:
Why the sudden change in attitude to cyclists? Apparently this operation has resulted in many cyclists being stopped and "advised" over matters such as cutting corners and wearing headphones, while some of the HGVs stopped have been found to be unfit for the road!
Why has it taken the recent spike of deaths to trigger this action? It is not as if the recent deaths are anything above the normal annual figures!
Courtesy of http://fullfact.org/factchecks/londons_cyclists_ro...
Meanwhile is there any legal basis for offering riders "advice"?
Surely that could be done by volunteers from BRAKE rather than using police resources, and leave the police to tackle all those unfit vehicles!
Why not? cyclists have to conform to the law/rules of the road so why should they be made a "special case" as the motorist / professional driver will be subject to the full force of the law if they stray ??Why has it taken the recent spike of deaths to trigger this action? It is not as if the recent deaths are anything above the normal annual figures!
Courtesy of http://fullfact.org/factchecks/londons_cyclists_ro...
Meanwhile is there any legal basis for offering riders "advice"?
Surely that could be done by volunteers from BRAKE rather than using police resources, and leave the police to tackle all those unfit vehicles!
If that the case fine the f
kers just as the rest of the drivers that use the roads.Edited by SVTRick on Saturday 30th November 00:40
This should have been taking place ALL THE TIME, not just because a lot of the fatalities occurred in a shorter than usual time span.
But also, I think the police will have an uphill task actually catching the cyclists "at it" as many of them are too quick and escape into traffic... and they have no VRM to followup on!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUftM2SAIus
This offence happens so fast, yet up until the point he jumps the light, no offence has occurred... then the cyclist swerves across the road, and appears to take to the opposite pavement!! Very difficult to catch!
rambo19 said:
This is interesting.;
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclists-fil...
As is this:http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclists-fil...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/road-safety-l...
Daily Mirror said:
Police fine more than 2,100 drivers and cyclists in London road safety crackdown
By Piers Eady
Police have fined more than 2,100 drivers and cyclists in the first three days of a major campaign to make London’s roads safer.
Nearly 1,400 car and lorry drivers were slapped with penalties for offences including talking on the phone while driving and jumping red lights.
And 755 cyclists were also fined for going through red lights, riding on pavements and cycling with the wrong lights - or even no lights.
Another 28 people were arrested for a range of crimes including assault, bike theft and drugs and immigration offences.
Operation Safeway was launched by the Met on Monday after six cyclists died on the capital’s roads in just a fortnight earlier this month.
The operation, which started on Monday, will see 2,500 officers monitoring 166 junctions and will run until Christmas.
In THREE DAYS, 2100 offences were detected that WOULD NOT and many that COULD NOT have been detected by speed cameras.By Piers Eady
Police have fined more than 2,100 drivers and cyclists in the first three days of a major campaign to make London’s roads safer.
Nearly 1,400 car and lorry drivers were slapped with penalties for offences including talking on the phone while driving and jumping red lights.
And 755 cyclists were also fined for going through red lights, riding on pavements and cycling with the wrong lights - or even no lights.
Another 28 people were arrested for a range of crimes including assault, bike theft and drugs and immigration offences.
Operation Safeway was launched by the Met on Monday after six cyclists died on the capital’s roads in just a fortnight earlier this month.
The operation, which started on Monday, will see 2,500 officers monitoring 166 junctions and will run until Christmas.
This campaign highlights why so much has gone wrong with the policing of our roads, by the drive to persecute speed and not address the other causes of accidents.
rambo19 said:
Mill Wheel said:
In THREE DAYS, 2100 offences were detected that WOULD NOT and many that COULD NOT have been detected by speed cameras.
This campaign highlights why so much has gone wrong with the policing of our roads, by the drive to persecute speed and not address the other causes of accidents.
Agree 100%This campaign highlights why so much has gone wrong with the policing of our roads, by the drive to persecute speed and not address the other causes of accidents.
What would be interesting is to see if other crimes went up whilst this crackdown was enforced, robbery/burglry/assults etc etc. If they did'nt, it shows that it can be done all the time.
Simple traffic stops can, and do lead to so much more.
When you think about it, I would imagine most people were on thier best behaviour when they saw all the police at the junctions, and yet loads still got caught.
Daily Mirror said:
Another 28 people were arrested for a range of crimes including assault, bike theft and drugs and immigration offences.
So other offences ARE still being tackled. Win Win all round.Lets hope Boris has noticed this - he seemed to have been on the ball when he revealed one fatality involved a cyclist going the wrong way up a one way street - although he got into trouble for revealing that... WHY?
WinstonWolf said:
A car story from the weekend, make of it what you will.
I'm sat in a queue at some traffic lights , they've been green for a good ten seconds and a few cars have gone through when some prick in a CAR completely ignores the red and barges through.
Everyone had to take evasive action, does this mean all car drivers jump red lights?
Your story looks like a rag at car drivers, while Snowboy made the point that these two cyclists spoiled the perception of cyclists in general, as he (Snowboy) went on to acknowledge that 20 or so other cyclists behaved in an exemplary fashion, and that these two gave reasonable cyclists posting in this thread a bad name because of their behaviour.I'm sat in a queue at some traffic lights , they've been green for a good ten seconds and a few cars have gone through when some prick in a CAR completely ignores the red and barges through.
Everyone had to take evasive action, does this mean all car drivers jump red lights?
He has not commented, but I expect he agrees that some drivers are just as arrogant and stupid as the two cyclists he described.
Meanwhile Streaky has suggested that two of the recently deceased cyclists may have contributed to their demise by jumping red lights - and Boris already pointed the finger at one who appeared to have been riding the wrong way along a one way street.
That leaves three cyclists whose deaths were not attributed to their behaviour or dress.
Hopefully the present campaign will reduce the toll - I really hope the Met can find the man power, funding and political balls to carry on with it... as the evidence so far seems to show that every user has benefitted, with cyclists AND drivers being caught acting outside of the law.
Just need to tackle pedestrians in the same way and offer them "words of advice"!
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