It's coming - EU cross-border exchange of information
Discussion
This issue was incredibly badly reported quite recently. Cross-border exchange of information is pending.
A most unwelcome draft directive:
http://ec.europa.eu/transparency/regdoc/index.cfm?...
A most unwelcome draft directive:
http://ec.europa.eu/transparency/regdoc/index.cfm?...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Your UK licence won't be endorsed as the Directive refers only to financial penalties. You could be prosecuted in another member state and banned from driving there (and any other country with which it has a reciprocal agreement). Alternatively, you could get points or demerit points in another member state - potentially leading to a ban in that member state if you commit repeat offences. At the moment, we don't recognise foreign bans but I'd expect that to change at some point,The Directive comes into force on 7th August 2014. However, each member state has until 6th May 2015 to "bring into force the laws, regulations and administrative provisions necessary to comply with this Directive".
The Directive provides for the registered keeper getting the fine - although there is provision to nominate another driver. However, the expense of defending a case in Europe will likely be far in excess of the financial penalty proposed. Most people will not fight foreign cases because of the expense, time and effort it takes to attend court in Europe - and then there's the language barrier and a foreign legal system. A sad state of affairs.
Dwight VanDriver said:
agtlaw
Does not our Parliament have to pass a SI to bring this EEC Directive within the Law of UK. Haven't seen one yet. The current mood of Cameron may result in this never happening?
dvd
The process is called transposition. There may be a consultation exercise. Guidance about the new legislation is supposed to be published 12 weeks in advance of its implementation. There will be a statutory instrument or instruments, or primary legislation - the effective date must be before the deadline set in the Directive - 6th May 2015. N.b. The deadline for the general election is 7th May 2015. If it's not implemented then the UK can be fined by the ECJ.Does not our Parliament have to pass a SI to bring this EEC Directive within the Law of UK. Haven't seen one yet. The current mood of Cameron may result in this never happening?
dvd
Edited by agtlaw on Saturday 19th July 08:24
llewop said:
okay - I didn't read all 18 pages the first time!
but given it is only a draft directive: that date could change - I know of directives that had drifted and been discussed/reviewed/revised/re-issued for years before being finalised.
Not this one. The directive arises out of an ECJ decision in May. but given it is only a draft directive: that date could change - I know of directives that had drifted and been discussed/reviewed/revised/re-issued for years before being finalised.
"in its judgement of 6 May 2014, case C-43/12 Commission v. European Parliament and Council, the Court annulled Directive 2011/82/EU, but maintained its effects until the entry into force of a new Directive on the basis of the transport article of the Treaty within a reasonable period of time, which may not exceed twelve months from the date of delivery of the judgement."
I watched some of the debate today. A London Labour MEP spoke in favour of the measure, UKIP was against it.
Apparently 500,000 UK drivers speed through France every year. Not sure how that figure is calculated. If I go to France and trigger 20 speed cameras then is that 20 drivers?
The debate is available to download. Warning - its a bit amateur hour and ties are apparently optional for MEPs.
In the meantime, UKIP speaker:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/SY0gxz0J2WE
Download each speech as an MP4 video. Debate starts at 15:00:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/plenary/en/debate-de...
Apparently 500,000 UK drivers speed through France every year. Not sure how that figure is calculated. If I go to France and trigger 20 speed cameras then is that 20 drivers?
The debate is available to download. Warning - its a bit amateur hour and ties are apparently optional for MEPs.
In the meantime, UKIP speaker:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/SY0gxz0J2WE
Download each speech as an MP4 video. Debate starts at 15:00:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/plenary/en/debate-de...
Edited by agtlaw on Tuesday 10th February 19:01
Section 56, 57 et seq. of the Crime (International Co-operation) Act 2003 allows mutual recognition of disqualifications imposed in Ireland. Whilst this does not apply to any other EU member state, it would be relatively easy to extend the list to all EU member states.
I can't see harmonisation of penalty points for a very long time, if ever. Other EU countries operate an entirely different system of demerit or penalty points.
In my view the Directive is motivated by money, not road safety. The French are pissed off because on busy weekends (they claim) up to 40% of offenders detected by speed camera can't be fined.
The list of applicable offences is a bit odd. The directive must envisage foreign police officers having immediate roadside access to the DVLA database.
I can't see harmonisation of penalty points for a very long time, if ever. Other EU countries operate an entirely different system of demerit or penalty points.
In my view the Directive is motivated by money, not road safety. The French are pissed off because on busy weekends (they claim) up to 40% of offenders detected by speed camera can't be fined.
The list of applicable offences is a bit odd. The directive must envisage foreign police officers having immediate roadside access to the DVLA database.
And, at long last, here it is (in force 6th May 2017): http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2017/554/introd...
Explanatory note:
"These Regulations amend the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002 (“the 2002 Regulations”) in relation to the disclosure of information from the register of vehicles and their keepers maintained by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency on behalf of the Secretary of State under section 21 of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994.
These Regulations implement Directive (EU) 2015/413 of the European Parliament and of the Council (OJ No L 68, 13.3.15, p.9) facilitating cross-border exchange of information on road safety related traffic offences.
Regulation 3 implements the Directive by inserting new regulation 27B into the 2002 Regulations. New regulation 27B provides that, in order to facilitate the investigation by another Member State of a road safety related traffic offence to which the Directive applies committed in that Member State using a vehicle registered in the UK, the Secretary of State must make available to the Member State the identity of the registered keeper of the vehicle (and certain other information) from the statutory register of vehicles and their keepers maintained by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency.
It designates the Secretary of State as the national contact point for the UK, pursuant to Article 4(2) of the Directive, to receive and process requests for such information from other Member States and to request and receive corresponding information in relation to such offences committed in the UK using vehicles registered in other Member States."
Explanatory note:
"These Regulations amend the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002 (“the 2002 Regulations”) in relation to the disclosure of information from the register of vehicles and their keepers maintained by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency on behalf of the Secretary of State under section 21 of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994.
These Regulations implement Directive (EU) 2015/413 of the European Parliament and of the Council (OJ No L 68, 13.3.15, p.9) facilitating cross-border exchange of information on road safety related traffic offences.
Regulation 3 implements the Directive by inserting new regulation 27B into the 2002 Regulations. New regulation 27B provides that, in order to facilitate the investigation by another Member State of a road safety related traffic offence to which the Directive applies committed in that Member State using a vehicle registered in the UK, the Secretary of State must make available to the Member State the identity of the registered keeper of the vehicle (and certain other information) from the statutory register of vehicles and their keepers maintained by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency.
It designates the Secretary of State as the national contact point for the UK, pursuant to Article 4(2) of the Directive, to receive and process requests for such information from other Member States and to request and receive corresponding information in relation to such offences committed in the UK using vehicles registered in other Member States."
Geekman said:
So, this would not apply to any parking offences if I've understood it correctly?
This regulation applies to the following traffic offences—(a)drink driving;
(b)driving while under the influence of drugs;
(c)failing to stop at a red traffic light;
(d)failing to use a seat belt;
(e)failing to wear a safety helmet;
(f)using a mobile telephone or any other communication device while driving;
(g)speeding;
(h)use of a forbidden lane.
Interesting:
"7.2 The instrument makes provision for the handling of incoming requests for information received from other Member States in relation to offences committed abroad with vehicles registered in the UK. Reciprocal treatment by other Member States of requests received from the UK in relation to offences committed in the UK with foreign registered vehicles is a matter for other Member States equivalent transposition measures. All Member States, except the UK, Ireland and Denmark have already transposed the Directive.
7.3 The Directive provides a mechanism for Member States to exchange the identity of the registered keeper or owner of a vehicle, as opposed to the identity of the driver, at the time of the offence. This information is sufficient for Member States with keeper liability to take enforcement action. But for countries with driver liability, such as the UK, Ireland, Germany, Italy, Spain, Austria etc., further information would be needed to commence enforcement proceedings. So in practice only half of all states are likely to be able to make full use of the Directive.
7.4 Ultimately, it is up to individual Member States what they might do with keeper details when received. Where a country has keeper liability for road traffic offences they will be more likely to pursue offenders. However other Member States can write to a keeper about an offence requesting the identity of a driver at the time an offence is committed. It would up to police forces to determine whether to request the information from foreign keepers, or to otherwise seek Member State assistance in finding the offender. This is a topic of concern for many other Member States who are forming an EU sub-group to scrutinise these “secondary enforcement activities” and recommend practical solutions for implementation."
"7.2 The instrument makes provision for the handling of incoming requests for information received from other Member States in relation to offences committed abroad with vehicles registered in the UK. Reciprocal treatment by other Member States of requests received from the UK in relation to offences committed in the UK with foreign registered vehicles is a matter for other Member States equivalent transposition measures. All Member States, except the UK, Ireland and Denmark have already transposed the Directive.
7.3 The Directive provides a mechanism for Member States to exchange the identity of the registered keeper or owner of a vehicle, as opposed to the identity of the driver, at the time of the offence. This information is sufficient for Member States with keeper liability to take enforcement action. But for countries with driver liability, such as the UK, Ireland, Germany, Italy, Spain, Austria etc., further information would be needed to commence enforcement proceedings. So in practice only half of all states are likely to be able to make full use of the Directive.
7.4 Ultimately, it is up to individual Member States what they might do with keeper details when received. Where a country has keeper liability for road traffic offences they will be more likely to pursue offenders. However other Member States can write to a keeper about an offence requesting the identity of a driver at the time an offence is committed. It would up to police forces to determine whether to request the information from foreign keepers, or to otherwise seek Member State assistance in finding the offender. This is a topic of concern for many other Member States who are forming an EU sub-group to scrutinise these “secondary enforcement activities” and recommend practical solutions for implementation."
The legislative mechanism already exists.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/4/part/6/...
Also see CrimPR, rule 30.10
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/4/part/6/...
Also see CrimPR, rule 30.10
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