Been sold some lies and dreams

[Escy]

edit - here is a link for the car http://www.swapz.co.uk/swapz/4629597/Toyota_Celica...

I bought a car in July 2014 on ebay. My brother picked it up for me and ran it for 6 months. I've only just got my hands on it now. It was a Toyota Celica 190, the car was a complete dog but the engine had been re-built, I planned on breaking it. In the adver there was a picture of it on an engine stand all freshly painted. It had an invoice from a garage for £3700 which had loads of parts listed with prices, things like Mahle pistons, Piper cams, lightweight flywheel and upgraded clutch, ported and polished head, arp bolts, etc.

It has been re-built but all the parts are standard. I spoke to the Garage who's name is on the invoice. Turns out the bloke worked there during that time and he's made it up. He told me he owes them money and he's been done for fraud in the past.

I'm wondering what my options are and if the time scale between buying it and finding out the truth will be a problem. I'm going to get it in writing from the garage that the invoice is fraudulent.

If he's known to the police, do I contact them about this? I was going to see about a small claims court.

I sold the engine with the spec it supposedly was on ebay for £2250 (which i've cancelled) so I can prove the value of it.

Edited by Escy on Thursday 29th January 10:32

Edited by Escy on Thursday 29th January 18:23

[Escy]

What about the fact he's fabricated false paperwork?

[Escy]

I've got an invoice for £3700 for an engine re-build done by a garage. Surely the garage will have corresponding paperwork and VAT details (they don't i asked them, they fitted ACL bearings but it's otherwise standard, they just gave it a fancy paint job). They know the guy I bought the car from, he used to work for them. It's clear he's falsified one of their invoices while he worked there (i've put this to him and he's not really denied it). They told me he's been charged with fraud in the past.

Makes me wonder if that side of it is more of a police matter rather than small claims?

I bought the car on the strength of an invoice which has turned out to be fraudulent.

Edited by Escy on Thursday 29th January 11:43

[Escy]

I want some money back. I've offered him the chance to cover 50% of the money i'm out of pocket by which is £500. He's stalling but does seem willing to pay something (although i'm not going to hold me breath). Guess he doesn't want the police involved again, pretty sure he's done time (not a lot) for fraud. The garage might want a piece of him also as he's committed fraud in their name. Apparently he owes them loads of money as it is.

I'm thinking getting something off him might be my best option. If I take him to a small claims I could possibly end up having £5 a week drip fed to me.

Part of me thinks he should get nicked for it, but it doesn't help me get any money back.

[Escy]

What was the time scale on the Tigra, from purchase to the box going and a claim being made?

Did you need any independent verification it was standard? Do I need a mechanic to inspect the engine or something while it's apart?

[Escy]

KrazyIvan said:

If I am reading this right, a 3rd party ran the car for 6 months before you even looked at it. If this is true, then I think this is where you may fall down, as the scrote will simply say they were fitted and someone else must have removed them, and as the car was not in your possession for a substantial period of time, your going to be hard pushed to prove otherwise....i would have thought.

The 3rd party is my brother, I won the auction, was going to have it for myself and break it for parts straight away. He needed a car so he bought it with his money and put it in his name. It's still in his name, i'm the 3rd party in this, he'd be the one making the claim so this is a non issue. I'm only posting up about it because I told him i'd buy it off him once he's finished with it, now i've found out it's all lies.

[Escy]

I'll try and sort something out with him directly. I'm being more than fair asking for half the money.

If I do go to the small claims court, what's my best plan of action for the engine? Sell it as standard, then claim the difference between it being standard and the £2250 I sold the dream engine for?

[Escy]

swerni said:

You purchased a car for £1000 with an engine that had a £3700 rebuild and knew you could sell the engine alone at over £2000.

Were alarm bells not ringing at any stage?

I didn't purchase the car for £1000. I won the auction for £1750. The car was worth £750 with a standard engine (recently bought a far better condition 190 for £750). So I overpaid by 1k based purely on that invoice. It just so happens that the difference in value between a fancy pants engine and a standard one is probably 1k, maybe a little more.

The way the auction was listed was like he's basically selling an engine with the car thrown in so it's not like the invoice played an insignificant part.

I've found a advert still active on another website. It's just not on to make an advert like this based on complete fabrication. Even things like the AEM induction kit turned out to be a Chinese knock off.

http://www.swapz.co.uk/swapz/4629597/Toyota_Celica...

This is off the Torquay Herald website

NAME OF THE PERSON WHO SOLD THE CAR, Orchid Vale, Kingsteignton. Breached a community order imposed for fraud. Plea: Denies. Convicted Date: 30/05/2013. Original offence details: On 06/12/2011 at Dartmouth made a false representation that was lawfully in possession of and entitled to present for cash a cheque for £200 drawn on a Nat West Bank account in the name of another. Committed to prison for 84 days suspended for 18 months. Reason for custody: persistent and willful refusal to comply with community penalty, fraud committed over three month period. Be under a curfew for three months.

NAME OF THE PERSON WHO SOLD THE CAR, Orchid Vale, Kingsteignton. Age: 25. On 06/12/2011 at Dartmouth committed fraud in that dishonestly made a false representation, that were lawfully in possession of and entitled to present for cash a cheque for £200 drawn on a Nat West Bank account in the name of another. Plea: Guilty. On 26/01/2012 at Dartmouth committed fraud in that were lawfully in possession of and entitled to present for cash a cheque for £460 in the name of another. Plea: Guilty. On 08/02/2012 at Dartmouth committed fraud by false representation, namely were lawfully in possession of an entitled to present a cheque for £495. Plea: Guilty. Between 01/01/2011 and 07/12/2011 at Dartmouth stole a cheque, of a value unknown, belonging to another. Plea: Guilty. Between 01/01/2011 and 27/01/2012 at Dartmouth stole a cheque, of a value unknown, belonging to another. Plea: Guilty. Between 01/01/2011 and 09/02/2012 at Dartmouth stole a cheque, of a value unknown, belonging to another. Plea: Guilty. Community order made. Carry out unpaid work for 100 hours within the next 12 months.


NAME OF THE PERSON WHO SOLD THE CAR,Rowcroft Road, Paignton. Age: 25. On 06/12/2011 at Dartmouth committed fraud in that dishonestly made a false representation, namely wrote a cheque out to himself intending to make a gain, namely £200. Plus five related offences. Adjourned to 23/11/2012.

Edited by Escy on Thursday 29th January 14:54

[Escy]

If he had a suspended sentence last time, surely this one (for more money) will see him in the chokey this time around?

Just spoken to an ex employer (not the garage that built the engine). He recently left the company and is working for himself (making carbon fibre parts). He's probably not declaring it so will be treated as unemployed if I go through the courts.

Edited by Escy on Thursday 29th January 15:03

[Escy]

The garage on the invoice gave me his new employers details. I rang them and they told me he'd recently left.

[Escy]

I've been doing some more digging, the guy is well known on a few forums as a con man. Think i'll do everyone a favour and tell the police. Used to trade under the name of reworx styling

[Escy]

I want the difference between what I sold the engine for in his advertised spec (£2250) and what I get for it as a standard engine (sub 1k, probably around £750)

I was going to ask if I a small claims case at the same time as the police case so thanks for clearing that up.

I'm pretty sure i'll get no money off him, even if I win the case. He seems to have been scamming people all his life, there is a trail of disaster everywhere he's been.

[Escy]

You're reading it wrong. I didn't know the engine was standard when I initially sold it.

[Escy]

andygo said:

boot/head interfacing

It's an option i've considered and not yet ruled out.

[Escy]

Surely all I'll need is the false invoice and a testimony from the garage that it's fraudulent. They did help him rebuild the engine (measured it up for clearances) so they know what was done to it.

I'm speaking to him via watsapp and he's not disputed the fact it's standard. I don't think i'll have any issues with that side of the claim.

[Escy]

I didn't fully explain the situation as I didn't think it mattered. I saw the car on ebay, spoke to the scam artist owner, he told me all the cock and bull about the engine and the invoices he had to back it up. I won the auction (I planned to break it for parts). At the time I didn't really have the space for it anyway and my brother had just sold a car and needed another. I agreed with my brother that he'd buy it, use it and i'd have it off him for the same price when he'd finished with it.

The problem is, my brother (and dad who went along) went to buy it and they are a bit naive. I expected invoices for the parts as well as one from the garage so when I saw his fake invoice I was worried, it didn't look great. The thing is, the engine has been out, has been painted up and looks the part. He removed a spark plug and you can see the pistons are shiny and the compression was really high so he assumed it was what he said. Plus there are photos of it on the garage's Facebook page so it all kind of added up.

That time has come where i've had it off him. I've started breaking it and have found the truth. I owe my brother £1750 for a car i'll be lucky to get 1k back on. I'm sorting everything out (contacting the garage, trying to negotiate money off him, posting this thread for some opinions, etc) as I have responsibility for it and as it's in my garage, it's my problem. He'll need to do all the paperwork and put the claim in as the car is in his name.

[Escy]

False accounting, the definition was posted on page 2

[Escy]

There has. I asked him for £500 back or I'd go to the police. He agreed but it took ages, finally had the last of it yesterday. £500 means i'll break even on the car. I have sold the engine for £750 (previously sold it for £2250 as the lie spec) so i've effectively lost £1500 (£1000 after his £500 back). I think i cut him a good deal really as i'd over paid for the car by more than £500 but if i'd tried him for more money i'd have probably got nothing. It turns out there is a long list of people who've been ripped off by him so anything back is a result.

I'm going to chalk it up to experience and move on.

[Escy]

pork911 said:

blackmail then.

Can't blackmail an innocent man

[Escy]

Yeah, i'm the bad guy