Advice on dispute with a private school please

[R2FU]

Hi, hoping someone suitably qualified out there can guide me. To summarise a long story - when my daughter was starting school we applied for a place at our preferred local state school but weren't sure of being in the catchment area so as a fallback applied to the local private school. The private school offered my daughter a place which we accepted and paid a deposit, in full knowledge that if we got the place we wanted at the state school we'd lose the deposit we'd paid with the private school. No argument with that, that was the price of hedging our bets. Bottom line, we got a place at the state school and I wrote off the deposit with the private school. All good.

Except it wasn't! In accepting the place at the private school I didn't pay enough attention to the many pages of detailed terms and conditions and missed letting them know in the required timescales (one term's notice) that my daughter wouldn't be attending. So they are now coming after me for the balance of a term's fees, plus interest at 1.5% per month. Which is what is stated in their Ts & Cs that without really paying proper attention I signed up to up-front.

I fully accept I'm not squeaky clean here - I did miss the date they had set and they tell me the place did not subsequently get filled that term (no reason to think they'd go to the trouble of lying about that). So I'm prepared to come to some arrangement.

But my questions are these:

Is it correct that regardless of what of what their terms and conditions say, they are only entitled to seek to recover actual costs they've incurred?
If so does a full terms fees for educational services we did not receive plus a punitive rate of interest reflect their real costs or are we into the realms of them looking to levy a penalty, which I'm told they are not legally entitled to do?

As it stands I have been served with a claim by the school's solicitors and things are currently on track to go to small claims court unless I work something out.

Basically, I'm not blameless here, and as you can hopefully see I am looking to reach some compromise (even if it is just them waiving the several hundred pounds of interest they're claiming) and am trying to find an angle to come from.

Thanks in advance for any help or guidance anyone can offer as to how I can approach this.

[R2FU]

Thanks all for taking the time to reply. The general consensus seems to be I am a numpty and I hold my hands up to that! I generally try to do the right thing by people and treat them like I would like to be treated but sometimes I do get it wrong!

I guess the only real reason I've hesitated and not just paid up is the school has been in no particular hurry to resolve this. After their initial letter asking for the balance of fees I asked them if they had filled the place and they took forever to come back saying they had not and promptly tried to charge me 1.5% interest per month for the time I'd been waiting. Frankly that does grate, and seem unreasonable.

Anyway, thanks again, and to respond to a couple of the specific questions asked....

pork911 said:

You went into it knowing the private school was only ever a back up and didn't bother to assess the downside.

Strange you should post a thread now you've been 'served', did you just think it would go away after their earlier letters?

Anyway, there's a lesson here for your child on decision making.

Careful up there on your high horse, it's a long way down! I suppose you read every line of those endless license terms and assess the downside before clicking Accept when you download some software? While clearly I am a bad parent and you are a perfect one. And yes, I honestly believed they'd filled the place and were chancing their arm - so I did think it would go away!

Vixpy1 said:

On a slight tangent..

I'm not saying the OP did this because i don't know the circumstances, but it pisses me off when wealthy familes try to get their children into the top state schools, usually by buying expensive houses nearby, denying a child from a less affluant background a place at a good school when they can quite easily afford a good private school but want to spend all their money on champagne, cocaine and holidays in the Bahamas.

Don't disagree. I know you weren't saying I'm in that category but for the avoidance of any doubt I've lived in this area since I was 2 years old, have never taken cocaine or been to the Bahamas, but I am quite partial to the occasional glass of champagne! As for being wealthy, compared to some I don't do too bad, while compared to others I'm a pauper - it's all relative.

Pagey said:

OP's daughter starting school....

So Private Primary School (reception Year)

I would hazard a guess that costs are circa £1500 - £2k per term

What area of South East OP ?
Not that it's relevant. Just my idle curiosity

I'm in Hertfordshire, and yes reception. £3k a term and rising from there is the going rate around here for an OK private school. Some of the better ones are considerably more. Hence why everyone loses sleep over catchment areas and getting into the good state schools.

Thanks again for taking the time to all who have replied!

[R2FU]

As the OP on this thread, I feel I owe it to those who have taken the time to post and in particular a couple of individuals who have given me help, to provide a summary of the outcome of my situation.

After posting on here, a couple of PHers – jasandjules and justinP1, very generously offered to take a look at the specifics of my situation and the claim being brought against me in small claims court by the school in question. To cut a long story short it became clear to them pretty quickly that there were some major issues with the school’s admissions policy and the terms of the contract they expect parents to enter into, to the extent that it is arguably impossible for a parent to have a free choice as required under consumer regulations and still comply with the terms of their contract.

There were also a number of specific issues with how the school and their solicitor had subsequently handled themselves and the situation. The net result was Jason and Justin helped me to construct a robust response and make a significantly reduced (by more than £2000) offer to the school by way of settlement that was promptly accepted.

I have always been happy to concede(and stated at the start of the thread) that I was not without fault here in that I cancelled my daughter’s attendance at the school belatedly. So the fact I have paid them a (still not trivial) amount feels entirely appropriate and I feel comfortable we have landed on a fair and equitable settlement that all parties should be happy with.

All in all, I think this thread has really highlighted the best and worst of PH. The best being that there is a community where like-minded people can come for information, help, or just a little bit of fun. The worst being some of the negativity directed at JustinP1 in particular from some quarters for doing nothing more than providing well intended, and as it transpired very well-informed, advice based on taking the trouble to understand facts. A certain other self-proclaimed expert might do well to consider the advice of a truly wise man - it is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err.

In closing, Alexander Pope has been quoted a couple of times in this thread and there is a very apt quote of his “do good by stealth, and blush to find it fame” that made me think of the Jason and Justin’s selfless willingness to give of their time and expertise to help me out, with no ask in return. Hopefully they will not blush too much when I say it is really heartening to know there are people such as them on PH willing to offer assistance to others just for the sake of helping the “community”. I for one will be working to follow their example.

[R2FU]

Breadvan72 said:

I notice that those who bang on about the contract are being rather coy about what the magical contract points were.

Not at all. Their terms and other relevant communications extended to 40 pages. I'm not even sure how I would have gone about posting them up. I provided details by email to everyone who asked for them along with an invitation to be quite upfront in telling me to "suck it up" if I was completely out of line. You at no point asked for them. Had you asked I would have been happy to provide them. You are clearly qualified to comment, so I had no reason not to consider any thoughts you might have offered based on knowledge of the facts.

Breadvan72 said:

I wonder if we shall ever know? The vague description of them set out above makes them sound a bit like what is technically known in the trade as ballsache (a Latin term), but all is mysterious as apparently the arguments are so amazing that they have to be a secret. From the narrative it sounds to me like the school did a deal on a commercial basis rather than litigate a lot of flim flam with a stubborn litigant egged on by keen "and another thing!" amateur advisers.

Who is more amateur, those who made an assessment based on possession of the full facts, or those who rely solely on supposition? I'll take so-called amateur advice every time if it is based on fact-based logical reasoning vs egotistical bluster from a so-called professional. I have no doubt if I ever engaged you on a chargeable basis you would bring a different level of rigour to your reasoning. YAALBYANML so I have no complaint.

As for the resolution being some kind of dirty little commercial settlement, rather than a victory based on the upholding of the purity of the law. I'm sure you're not actually so naïve as to suggest this isn't how these things work. It is after all a commercial matter at the heart of this, not some heavy-duty criminal or human rights issue.

Breadvan72 said:

So, if the OP has bluffed his way out of adhering to his promises, bully for him and his expert team, and for those who think that practicality and the bottom line are all that matter, and think that behaving like a straightforward person who keeps his promises is for silly people, yippee!

Yes, once again I repeat that I accept some blame here. I changed my mind. I missed a deadline. They tried to impose punitive charges on me without taking any steps to mitigate, based on a contract that at best contravened a number of key consumer rights regulations, at worst deliberately tricked people into signing up to a set of terms it was actually impossible for them to meet. So with a bit of help, I pushed back and met them half way without having to trouble the courts. They have £1750 of my money for their trouble. I have learned an expensive (but not as expensive as it could have been) lesson. I'd suggest we're all grown-ups and have reached a straightforward and equitable commercial settlement that suits all parties.

If it helps you to avoid embarrassment to call me silly and those that have provided me with good advice amateur-ish, then go ahead and do your worst and people that care to can form their own opinions.

Edited by R2FU on Monday 5th October 22:10

[R2FU]

Durzel said:

This is becoming a rather poisonous thread. Not sure what is trying to be achieved by goading BV72.

Agreed, so to try and wrap up my own contribution constructively, I would encourage anyone looking for some good advice on legal matters and a full spectrum of views not to hesitate to seek help on here. My experience on this thread has been overwhelmingly positive and, whether contributors have agreed with my position or disagreed, posts have been in the vast majority genuine and constructive. For sure be prepared to have your thinking challenged, but I'd say that can only be a good thing when you're trying to think your way through a problem.

So thanks again to all who have contributed, and to Jason and Justin in particular.