M4 HEDACS Smart motorway cameras now being used for 70 limit
Discussion
Just in case folk weren't aware, despite the original plan to only use the speed cameras for lower limit enforcement on this section of the smart motorway. I can confirm someone in my firm has received a ticket from j19/20 m4 gang cam doing 82mph in the 70 zone.
So much for ending the war on the motorist,
So much for ending the war on the motorist,
mygoldfishbowl said:
Post it up.
See if I can, since it's company and not my ticket might not be able to get. The member of staff who deals wth the. Gets funny if anyone knows about these sort of things coming in, before he chooses to tell me!Why would I lie, not benefit just thought I would confirm what many feared.
Edited by surveyor_101 on Monday 8th August 21:03
mygoldfishbowl said:
Post it up.
See if I can, since it's company and not my ticket might not be able to get. The member of staff who deals wth the. Gets funny if anyone knows about these sort of things coming in, before he chooses to tell me!Why would I lie, not benefit just thought I would confirm what many feared.
It's Avon and crooked Somerset, we only do speeding and dodgy Chiefsl
Edited by surveyor_101 on Monday 8th August 21:04
Edited by surveyor_101 on Monday 8th August 21:05
tapereel said:
Who's "they"? Or do you mean the HADECS system cameras?
I wonder what justification could be given to say "these speed limits will be enforced and this 70 limit will not be"
When you examine it closely that proposition can never make any sense or be justifiable.
The police and the highways agency team rolling out hadecs said they were only planned to be used for lower limit enforcement. Not enforcement of the 70 when the motorway is flowing freely.I wonder what justification could be given to say "these speed limits will be enforced and this 70 limit will not be"
When you examine it closely that proposition can never make any sense or be justifiable.
surveyor_101 said:
tapereel said:
Who's "they"? Or do you mean the HADECS system cameras?
I wonder what justification could be given to say "these speed limits will be enforced and this 70 limit will not be"
When you examine it closely that proposition can never make any sense or be justifiable.
The police and the highways agency team rolling out hadecs said they were only planned to be used for lower limit enforcement. Not enforcement of the 70 when the motorway is flowing freely.I wonder what justification could be given to say "these speed limits will be enforced and this 70 limit will not be"
When you examine it closely that proposition can never make any sense or be justifiable.
The hIghwys agency had no intention to book people for 80 at 3am when practically empty.
Pete317 said:
A bit OT perhaps, but do you have any links to these studies?
Not seen them but it's what the he/ha claim and the are judged by network flow occupation so no reason for them to lie or lower the limit for fun, would ruin their data and they love collecting data. The amount of data they wanted off contractors was insane and you find out most is processed or used they just wanted to have reams of data on projects just incase.If your interested read his seems to make a case for it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_motorway
Edited by surveyor_101 on Monday 8th August 21:32
Results of study
In 2007 it was estimated that ATM could be introduced within two years at a cost of around £5-15 million per mile[39] as opposed to 10 years and £79 million per mile for widening.[40][41]
The M42 scheme was initially run as an experiment and a Highways Agency report into the first six months of the scheme showed a reduction in variability journey times of up to 27%.[5][6] The journey time statistics can be broken down to show that northbound journey times were reduced by 26%, equating to an average reduction of 4 minute as compared to the period when the variable speed limits were on but the hard shoulder was not being used and 9% southbound (equating to 1 minute) during the afternoon rush hour.[42] The report also indicated a fall in the number of accidents from over 5 a month to 1.5 per month on average.[5][6] The Agency did state that normally accident statistics should be compared over a 3-year period, so the initial results should be treated with caution. They also stated that no accidents had been caused by hard shoulder use as a normal lane.[42] The report also stated that there had been a 10% fall in pollution and 4% fall in fuel consumption.[5] The report also indicated a compliance rate of 98% to the indicated speed limits when using the hard shoulder.[42] For comparison before the introduction of mandatory speed limits at road works, the compliance rate was 10% as opposed to 89% afterwards, showing a similar effect.[43]
In 2007 it was estimated that ATM could be introduced within two years at a cost of around £5-15 million per mile[39] as opposed to 10 years and £79 million per mile for widening.[40][41]
The M42 scheme was initially run as an experiment and a Highways Agency report into the first six months of the scheme showed a reduction in variability journey times of up to 27%.[5][6] The journey time statistics can be broken down to show that northbound journey times were reduced by 26%, equating to an average reduction of 4 minute as compared to the period when the variable speed limits were on but the hard shoulder was not being used and 9% southbound (equating to 1 minute) during the afternoon rush hour.[42] The report also indicated a fall in the number of accidents from over 5 a month to 1.5 per month on average.[5][6] The Agency did state that normally accident statistics should be compared over a 3-year period, so the initial results should be treated with caution. They also stated that no accidents had been caused by hard shoulder use as a normal lane.[42] The report also stated that there had been a 10% fall in pollution and 4% fall in fuel consumption.[5] The report also indicated a compliance rate of 98% to the indicated speed limits when using the hard shoulder.[42] For comparison before the introduction of mandatory speed limits at road works, the compliance rate was 10% as opposed to 89% afterwards, showing a similar effect.[43]
Pete317 said:
The reason I asked is that, despite looking very long and hard, I haven't managed to find anything definitive.
The highways England are judged on network flow and occupation, so,they wouldn't spend 2 billion on this scheme if it reduced flow and journey times. They are wasteful but not that's bad. We could only close some sections in very specific days and periods based on historic data. If they saw a massive drop in any figures they would cancel closures to keep things flowing.Pete317 said:
Perhaps, but why is documentation on the subject so thin on the ground?
Look Pete It's been two years since I was involved in highways agency England.
I am not an advocate for these roads as I hate speed cameras as they are so blunt and don't make up for a lack of police.
If you want hard data write to highways England and I expect some data geek will be only two pleasesd to send you hard data. Since that's what most of their staff do collect mostly useless data. I had to do a long breakdown of costs on each job into a ha format which I assumed was being used to create accurate budgets for future works.
Silly me they just had a team who liked collecting the data to do absolutely sweet fa with it just liked kicking up if it's want all filled in the way they wanted, so they could file it in a data black hole. They call it activity bench marking which is done at final account of projects. In 8 years know one in the he had got around to making use of the data to you know benchmark works!,,,,,,,
The budgets were based on figures in the air, as it turned out.
The project sponsors were not civil engineers or surveyors, or did they have any qualifications that were relevant in most cases. They were glorified administrators who could sign of and multi million pound project estimates if I could convince them it's was good value.
Edited by surveyor_101 on Monday 8th August 21:55
Edited by surveyor_101 on Monday 8th August 21:57
Edited by surveyor_101 on Monday 8th August 22:00
Pete317 said:
That's not really what I'm after.
Surely they must have had something to start with in order to justify spending billions on something which may or may not work.
I worked on drainage pinch point schemes mainly on m5 and trunk roads had nothing to do with smart role out other than one meeting on it.Surely they must have had something to start with in order to justify spending billions on something which may or may not work.
I got fed up with the waste and form box ticking rather than surveying the works! He should stop data crunching and look,at what they are spending our money on.
I am told two HETOs and a disco cots £500k year to keep on thenetwork!,,,
Pete317 said:
That's not really what I'm after.
Surely they must have had something to start with in order to justify spending billions on something which may or may not work.
I worked on drainage and pinch point schemes mainly on m5 and trunk roads had nothing to do with smart role out other than one day meeting on it, we're it's was explained to us.Surely they must have had something to start with in order to justify spending billions on something which may or may not work.
I got fed up with the waste and form box ticking rather than surveying the works! He should stop data crunching and look,at what they are spending our money on. I worked for an ASC contractor not ha direct.
I am told two HETOs and a car cost the tax payer £500k year to run. That was by so,one senior in southwest ha who thought they were a joke.
tapereel said:
so compared to the usual PH contributors 'an authority on HADECS3 and speed enforcement' 
I did in a thread some years ago,, whilst working for HE that they would not be used for NSL. I had also been up m5/m4 whilst not working and in a tm marked car driven at 80 ish through these and not received a ticket.Since then I don't tend to go that fast much and most of the time going Bristol say they are set to 60mph!
The rational was that old matrix signs still in use on some sections to warn and slow traffic were largely ineffective.
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