Question - Priority At A Roundabout
Discussion
I have a question for the PH collective, and hopefully a Traffic Officer will clarify this for me.
Have a look at this photo...
This is a roundabout not far from where I live that I often use. Entrances from the North, East & West and a car park to the South with the entrance/exit onto the roundabout, over a dropped kerb.
Yesterday I was approaching from the North, and the were cars coming from the West (to my right). There was also a car (VW Beetle) waiting to come out of the car park. You can probably see where this is heading, yes?
As I approached, the VW pulled across a pick-up truck coming from the West and went off to the East. The pick-up had to stop pretty sharpish, as I don't reckon the driver was expecting the VW to pull out.
So, my question is this: was the VW driver in the wrong? My view is that they were (but I am happy to have my view changed). My reasoning is the fact that the car park doesn't have a proper exit onto the roundabout, and drivers have to cross the pavement to get onto the roundabout mean that you would have wait for all other exits to be clear before you proceed.
If the pick-up hadn't have stopped in time and collided with the VW, who would be at fault (let's pretend that there was some sort of injury, so the police would be involved and blame would need to be apportioned)?
As another element to this little event, the VW was a (professional) learner car with the driver under instruction. It would appear that the instructor had told the driver to pull into the roundabout. Now if the pick-up had hit the VW, and it was deemed the Beetle driver was in the wrong, what responsibility would the instructor shoulder?
Have a look at this photo...
This is a roundabout not far from where I live that I often use. Entrances from the North, East & West and a car park to the South with the entrance/exit onto the roundabout, over a dropped kerb.
Yesterday I was approaching from the North, and the were cars coming from the West (to my right). There was also a car (VW Beetle) waiting to come out of the car park. You can probably see where this is heading, yes?
As I approached, the VW pulled across a pick-up truck coming from the West and went off to the East. The pick-up had to stop pretty sharpish, as I don't reckon the driver was expecting the VW to pull out.
So, my question is this: was the VW driver in the wrong? My view is that they were (but I am happy to have my view changed). My reasoning is the fact that the car park doesn't have a proper exit onto the roundabout, and drivers have to cross the pavement to get onto the roundabout mean that you would have wait for all other exits to be clear before you proceed.
If the pick-up hadn't have stopped in time and collided with the VW, who would be at fault (let's pretend that there was some sort of injury, so the police would be involved and blame would need to be apportioned)?
As another element to this little event, the VW was a (professional) learner car with the driver under instruction. It would appear that the instructor had told the driver to pull into the roundabout. Now if the pick-up had hit the VW, and it was deemed the Beetle driver was in the wrong, what responsibility would the instructor shoulder?
LeoSayer said:
I can't see why the VW would be at fault....http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/changes-and-answers/-highway-code-for-roundabouts
Section 185
Section 185 explains what you should do when you reach the roundabout. Again it is important to be aware of the traffic around you and look out for road users who may be signalling incorrectly or in some cases not signalling at all!
When reaching a roundabout you should:
Always give priority to the traffic coming from the right, unless you have been directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
Check if the road markings allow you to proceed without giving way (always look right before joining just in case)
Watch out for other road users on the roundabout
Check the traffic has moved off in front of you before you proceed to enter the roundabout
Yep, thats all true, but what bearing does it have that the car park isn't a 'proper' exit onto the roundabout? Section 185
Section 185 explains what you should do when you reach the roundabout. Again it is important to be aware of the traffic around you and look out for road users who may be signalling incorrectly or in some cases not signalling at all!
When reaching a roundabout you should:
Always give priority to the traffic coming from the right, unless you have been directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
Check if the road markings allow you to proceed without giving way (always look right before joining just in case)
Watch out for other road users on the roundabout
Check the traffic has moved off in front of you before you proceed to enter the roundabout
Drivers coming from the West would rightly expect to give way to vehicles turning right coming from the East, but the fact that cars coming out of the carpark have to cross the pavement and there are no road markings a denoting this as an exit has to question their priority over other vehicles on the roundabout, doesn't it?
Heres Johnny said:
You say it's a dropped curb onto the roundabout, why do you think it's not a proper entry point?
Because it doesn't have the road markings like a normal entry point, i.e. white Give Way markings. The only markings are double yellow lines which follow the line of the kerb.llewop said:
Is the visibility (for vehicles from the West) so poor that they would not easily see the vehicle entering the road/roundabout from the car park?
It's not great. Traffic coming from the West is travelling uphill and the mini roundabout sits at the top of the hill, on a slight bend.Street view from the West:
llewop said:
The car leaves the car park and once on the road has 'the high ground' vs traffic from the West. But arguably it is the equivalent of turning out of drive/yard in front of traffic. In an ideal world both should be paying enough attention that there isn't any chance of an incident, but our roads are so far from an ideal world these days!
The pick-up and the VW entered the roundabout at pretty much exactly the same time, but you're right about it's the same as entering the roundabout from a drive. How many would give way to someone coming out of their drive on this roundabout for example?
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