Plead guilty by post or go to court?

[JMW45]

Hi,

Having no personal experience in this area I would appreciate some help for my son.

He has been caught via a fixed camera doing 52 in a 30mph limit. Having had his license for just under 2 years at the date of the offence I believe that he is likely to get 6 points which is an automatic withdrawal of his license and he has to apply again for both theory & practical.

Is this correct? (is there anything else we should know or consider?)

Assuming the situation is as described above, I have also heard that the judge can show leniency with perhaps 5 points and a fine which will at least allow him to keep his licence.

In this case, do you suggest a letter of mitigation and no court appearance or take the court appearance option?

Thanks in advance.

[JMW45]

Thanks for replying Hammy98

I believe the rules changed in April this year which means the offence is usually treated as worthy of 6 points which now means a straight withdrawal of licence if you have held it for less than 2 years.

What we are hoping for is some leniency (such as 5 points and a fine) to avoid withdrawal and retaking the test!

Out of interest, which firm did you use to represent you?

[JMW45]

Dizeee said:

I completely disagree with this and all " your going to get 6 points" posts.

I have literally NEVER seen anyone get over 3 points when issued a fine and points at Mags Court, and I have seen a lot of speeding cases of varying severity over the years.

I myself when I was 19 received an FPN and then 3 points for doing 51 in a 30. I was then the following week given 4 points after a court summons for doing 47 in the same 30, two days later. That goes to show the mish mash and inconsistency of our justice system. As it happened that took me to 7 points, which triggered my licence revokation under the new drivers act, which had been passed that month and nobody new about (2001).

I have watched countless court prosecutions over my career some present some not, some with solicitors and some not, and 95% of them are given the statuatory 3 points and fine, stamp the book and move on, 3 points and fine, stamp book, move on, like a sausage factory.

Your son would have to be doing something truly exceptional to get anything more than 4 points in my opinion.

Thanks for all the comments.

My understanding (perhaps incorrectly) is that the new rules which came into effect from April 2017 is that the statutory penalty for an offence of the severity(!) is 6 points and that for new drivers (under two years) this is now an automatic withdrawal of licence and the need to completely reapply. A magistrate can only deviate from the statutory penalty in exceptional circumstances (which - to be honest - my son does not have).

As it only changed this year I hope that I have misunderstood this and I'd welcome comment.......

Thank!

[JMW45]

Thanks Gavia - this does confirm my understanding. Shame though as I was hoping I was wrong

Thanks also Dizeee - I hope the reality is more as you describe (keeping fingers crossed)

[JMW45]

SS2. said:

I don't share that view - on a daily basis, there are plenty of people being awarded 4 or more penalty points by the courts.

For clarity, the Magistrates' Sentencing Guidelines suggest 6 points OR a disqualification of 7-56 days upon conviction for 52mph in a 30mph limit.

To the OP - if the court is considering imposing an outright ban, it is probable they would expect your son to attend for sentencing.

In this case because my son has been driving for less than 2 years (just) 6 points is an automatic withdrawal of the licence under the new rules. His notice/plea options give him the choice to reply by post or go to court.

[JMW45]

I'm always happy to admit to being wrong as I thought the 'new rules' particularly affected new drivers (as well as generally increasing the fines for all).

My son has received a Single Justice Procedure Notice and has now decided to attend court in the hope that he will not have his licence withdrawn. He is preparing his plea of mitigation (based on fully accepting his responsibility, being very sorry and having paid for and attended a defensive driving course).

In reality we expect the worse and he has the licence withdrawn and he will have to re-take.

We do, however, live in hope!

[JMW45]

Dizeee said:

I will always maintain that the level of punishment I received, for basically making the same mistake a few times, was hugely disproportionate to what I had actually done.

I can't disagree with you.

In this case it's just one offence and if he had being doing 2 or 3 mph less he would have been able to attend a speed awareness course and probably no further action. If it happened 6 weeks later he would have held his licence for more than 2 years and it would be a different outcome.

As it is, like you, he is likely to have his licence withdrawn and re-apply and with significantly increased insurance.

Also, he has to drive 15+ miles each way to work and the nearest bus stop is over 2 miles down an unlit country lane so the loss of licence will hit him very hard.

He accepts he was speeding (and it really seems to have taught him a lesson) and he accepts there should be a penalty to pay but the likely outcome seems, to me, disproportionate.

[JMW45]

Gavia said:

Sorry, but there needs to be realism here.

Firstly, 2-3mph less would not have put him in the zone for a Speed Awareness Course, they have a maximum of 42mph, so he’d have to have been doing 10mph less at least to get offered one.

Six weeks later and he could be facing a ban of up to 56 days. Even with the lowest punishment of 6 points, he’s facing heavy insurance premiums next year. So no matter when it happens, he’s facing heavy insurance premiums.

Losing your licence for 6 points in the first two years isn’t new, so he should take some ownership of his actions. The penalty is what it is and has been right through. If he’s as reliant as he is on his licence then he needs to learn some self control.

I’m not going to claim to be a saint and never speed, quite the opposite in fact, especially when younger, but I took my punishment as an adult and moved forward. My punishments included three lengthy bans and an 18 month period where I couldn’t afford insurance so had to go without a car.

Thank you for your comments.

However, this is all new to me as I haven't ever received a driving penalty (in 30 years) so a steep learning curve for me as well as my son. You clearly have the advantage of much greater experience!

I was also quite clear that he accepts responsibility for his actions and the resultant outcome. I was merely expressing some remorse at the system we live in.

[JMW45]

TooMany2cvs said:

TBF, the six-points-and-revoked system has probably been around since before he was born.

That's the trouble with never having to know this before. Ignorance really can be bliss

On the other hand, if I'd know the answers I wouldn't have asked the question