A tree fell on my car. Where to start?
Discussion
Yesterday I went shopping.
Nearing the end of the shop, just about to go back for some salad we'd forgotten on the way around the store, when I got the dreaded "will the owner of 'AB12 CDE' please come to customer services.
I'd parked near the back of the car park, in a clear space, well within the lines, and there was nothing that the car could have been blocking. So I knew it couldn't be anything good.
Expecting to find the trolley collector had steered some trolleys into it, or that someone had had a low speed maneuvering bump and 'fessed up, I went off to the customer services desk.
"I'm very sorry" said the Commercial Manager of the store, "but a tree has fallen on your car".
So out we went, across the car park to where I'd parked. I was expecting to find a squashed-flat, undriveable lump, but no. The car didn't look too bad from a distance. It turns out that the tree a) wasn't really that big; and b) it was pretty rotten as it turned out, and had shattered into smaller pieces. The tree was lying diagonally across the car, or at least the pieces of it were.
The car is a '12' plate Mondeo with 60,600 miles on it. The damage starts above the rear passenger door, there's panel and trim damage to both doors, but the worst is the roof. A big dent over the front passenger area right behind the windscreen. Damage continues to other parts of the roof, a large dent at the front driver's side of the bonnet, and the front driver's side wing. That's the worst of it. There may be other knocks from smaller branches too. But all the doors open and shut, it seems weather tight, and although the door mirror took a big knock it also seems to be OK. It folds automatically when I lock it as it should. Amazingly even the windscreen appears intact.
The Commercial Manager took some details, after I'd taken some photos. The car was driveable, so we got ourselves and the shopping home OK. The Manager accepted that it was the fault of the supermarket, and he also accepted that the tree was "clearly not in good shape". But I got none of that in writing or on tape, so that story might change when it gets into the hands of their legal department. I'm not very positive about the idea of dealing with any of this right now, as both my insurer and Sainsbury's legal department will be treating this as a pure numbers game, I'm sure, whereas I have become really rather attached to this otherwise humble motor car. It may be "just another Mondeo" to others, but to me it's the newest, and most expensive car I ever bought. I paid more than I'd planned in order to get a top-of-the-line (Titanium X, 2.0 TDCi, 163hp) car in a good colour. It was second-hand, but only six months old and with 6,000 miles on when I bought it. I just want this car back really.
I'm not sure what will happen now. I know I need to report it to my insurer, but the Sainsburys manager mentioned "getting two quotes and passing it on to their legal department". I REALLY like this car. I would like to have it repaired rather than written off, but I suspect given it's age that the pre-accident value to repair cost ratio will make it uneconomical for my insurance company to commence repairs. The flip side of this, though, is that I don't want to be the one running around getting quotes from body shops, and dealing direct with Sainsburys. (I do accept that this does sound a lot like I want "the moon on a stick", to be fair).
When it happened, my emotions were all over the place. Initially a deep dark downer, fearing I'd be stranded with a week's shopping and no car. Then rising anger, then the realisation that there was no-one I could directly blame, no outlet for the anger. Then just a numbness as I realised I was likely to lose a car I bought as a 'retirement' present to myself, and which was to be a long-term keeper. I realise I'm highly unlikely to be able to replace it with something I can be assured has been as well looked after, and so I will lose out.
So has anyone got any advice as to where to start on this?
Q? Do I hand the whole thing over to my insurer to sort?
Q? Or do I start by talking to Sainsburys?
Q? With the roof damage, is it likely to end up being declared a 'total loss'?
Q? It's their tree, their car park, and the tree (and one next door in the row) appears to even the untrained eye to be significantly "dead" compared to the others in the row. Does this open up the possibility of getting back more than just the stark financial value of the car by way of compensation? I'm not after punitive compensation, there were no injuries, after all, and I'm just glad I (or anyone else for that matter) wasn't walking along that footway, or loading the car when it came down. But if they'd have taken the tree down when it died, before it went rotten to the point where the wind snapped the roots rather than pulling them up, then I wouldn't be in this position.
Part of me blames myself. I'd actively sought out this quieter part of the car park, in the hope of avoiding door-dings and idiots parking so close that I can't get into my car. Another tree that was closer to my car was in good shape, healthy enough, with remnants of leaves, and signs of new growth, with all it's bark intact. And if I'd have parked the car in just about any other part of the car park this event wouldn't even have registered for me.
I'll try to put up some photos later. But for now, any sensible advice as to how to deal with this swiftly and sensibly without escalating things with management companies and hire cars, etc, would be welcome. And obviously, a warning to anyone who reads this to take good care when parking, not just at ground level, but in this windy weather make sure you all park your cars outside the "blast radius" of any trees in the car park, lest they fall on your car too.
I'm off now to have a look at the 'Shed of the week' thread for some ideas for a temporary replacement...
Nearing the end of the shop, just about to go back for some salad we'd forgotten on the way around the store, when I got the dreaded "will the owner of 'AB12 CDE' please come to customer services.
I'd parked near the back of the car park, in a clear space, well within the lines, and there was nothing that the car could have been blocking. So I knew it couldn't be anything good.
Expecting to find the trolley collector had steered some trolleys into it, or that someone had had a low speed maneuvering bump and 'fessed up, I went off to the customer services desk.
"I'm very sorry" said the Commercial Manager of the store, "but a tree has fallen on your car".
So out we went, across the car park to where I'd parked. I was expecting to find a squashed-flat, undriveable lump, but no. The car didn't look too bad from a distance. It turns out that the tree a) wasn't really that big; and b) it was pretty rotten as it turned out, and had shattered into smaller pieces. The tree was lying diagonally across the car, or at least the pieces of it were.
The car is a '12' plate Mondeo with 60,600 miles on it. The damage starts above the rear passenger door, there's panel and trim damage to both doors, but the worst is the roof. A big dent over the front passenger area right behind the windscreen. Damage continues to other parts of the roof, a large dent at the front driver's side of the bonnet, and the front driver's side wing. That's the worst of it. There may be other knocks from smaller branches too. But all the doors open and shut, it seems weather tight, and although the door mirror took a big knock it also seems to be OK. It folds automatically when I lock it as it should. Amazingly even the windscreen appears intact.
The Commercial Manager took some details, after I'd taken some photos. The car was driveable, so we got ourselves and the shopping home OK. The Manager accepted that it was the fault of the supermarket, and he also accepted that the tree was "clearly not in good shape". But I got none of that in writing or on tape, so that story might change when it gets into the hands of their legal department. I'm not very positive about the idea of dealing with any of this right now, as both my insurer and Sainsbury's legal department will be treating this as a pure numbers game, I'm sure, whereas I have become really rather attached to this otherwise humble motor car. It may be "just another Mondeo" to others, but to me it's the newest, and most expensive car I ever bought. I paid more than I'd planned in order to get a top-of-the-line (Titanium X, 2.0 TDCi, 163hp) car in a good colour. It was second-hand, but only six months old and with 6,000 miles on when I bought it. I just want this car back really.
I'm not sure what will happen now. I know I need to report it to my insurer, but the Sainsburys manager mentioned "getting two quotes and passing it on to their legal department". I REALLY like this car. I would like to have it repaired rather than written off, but I suspect given it's age that the pre-accident value to repair cost ratio will make it uneconomical for my insurance company to commence repairs. The flip side of this, though, is that I don't want to be the one running around getting quotes from body shops, and dealing direct with Sainsburys. (I do accept that this does sound a lot like I want "the moon on a stick", to be fair).
When it happened, my emotions were all over the place. Initially a deep dark downer, fearing I'd be stranded with a week's shopping and no car. Then rising anger, then the realisation that there was no-one I could directly blame, no outlet for the anger. Then just a numbness as I realised I was likely to lose a car I bought as a 'retirement' present to myself, and which was to be a long-term keeper. I realise I'm highly unlikely to be able to replace it with something I can be assured has been as well looked after, and so I will lose out.
So has anyone got any advice as to where to start on this?
Q? Do I hand the whole thing over to my insurer to sort?
Q? Or do I start by talking to Sainsburys?
Q? With the roof damage, is it likely to end up being declared a 'total loss'?
Q? It's their tree, their car park, and the tree (and one next door in the row) appears to even the untrained eye to be significantly "dead" compared to the others in the row. Does this open up the possibility of getting back more than just the stark financial value of the car by way of compensation? I'm not after punitive compensation, there were no injuries, after all, and I'm just glad I (or anyone else for that matter) wasn't walking along that footway, or loading the car when it came down. But if they'd have taken the tree down when it died, before it went rotten to the point where the wind snapped the roots rather than pulling them up, then I wouldn't be in this position.
Part of me blames myself. I'd actively sought out this quieter part of the car park, in the hope of avoiding door-dings and idiots parking so close that I can't get into my car. Another tree that was closer to my car was in good shape, healthy enough, with remnants of leaves, and signs of new growth, with all it's bark intact. And if I'd have parked the car in just about any other part of the car park this event wouldn't even have registered for me.
I'll try to put up some photos later. But for now, any sensible advice as to how to deal with this swiftly and sensibly without escalating things with management companies and hire cars, etc, would be welcome. And obviously, a warning to anyone who reads this to take good care when parking, not just at ground level, but in this windy weather make sure you all park your cars outside the "blast radius" of any trees in the car park, lest they fall on your car too.
I'm off now to have a look at the 'Shed of the week' thread for some ideas for a temporary replacement...
strain said:
Bad luck OP
Nothing to add on the legal side of things, but last year my friends partner had a roof tile fall on her 2010 Focus (1.6 diesel 50k) they went through the insurance as the roof had caved in and pierced, i thought it would be written off but it was repaired with a new roof skin, really surprised me, fingers crossed for your Mondeo!
Thanks for that. I won't get my hopes up too high, but hey? It might be a small light at the end of a very long tunnel, but I'll cross my fingers a bit harder now... Nothing to add on the legal side of things, but last year my friends partner had a roof tile fall on her 2010 Focus (1.6 diesel 50k) they went through the insurance as the roof had caved in and pierced, i thought it would be written off but it was repaired with a new roof skin, really surprised me, fingers crossed for your Mondeo!
This is the sort of thing I was hoping to hear really. I've looked after the car really well and just don't want to have to jump into the risky business of having to search for another motor that could turn out to be a complete lemon...
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Hand it over to your insurer. Sounds like a write off I'm afraid.
The manager can say what he wants in order to placate a customer but in law, youl (or your insurers) will have to prove negligence of the tree owners to recover outlay from them. I suspect that's going to be hard. The tree may not have been in good shape but is it reasonable for the supermarket to have known about it before the event.
Unless they admit that the parlous state of the tree has been pointed out to them previously, I doubt they will be liable.
This is why we have fully comp cover. Because bad stuff happens and sometimes it's not anyone's fault.
I suppose I pretty much expected this would be the case. I'm not wet behind the ears, so I know about insurance and liability enough to know that it's why I have insurance. But that's mainly (legal obligation) to ensure I can afford to put right any damage I do to a third party, and (entirely optional) to provide fully comprehensive cover to put right any damage that I inflict on myself.The manager can say what he wants in order to placate a customer but in law, youl (or your insurers) will have to prove negligence of the tree owners to recover outlay from them. I suspect that's going to be hard. The tree may not have been in good shape but is it reasonable for the supermarket to have known about it before the event.
Unless they admit that the parlous state of the tree has been pointed out to them previously, I doubt they will be liable.
This is why we have fully comp cover. Because bad stuff happens and sometimes it's not anyone's fault.
I'm presuming that Sainsbury's will either have a corporate insurance policy for just this sort of thing, or they'll "self-insure" and handle it in house. I'm not sure which, as I further presume that anyone (or at least anyone who has sufficient financial clout) can fund repairs or pay compensation without involving an insurance company if they so wish. To be honest, I'm not fussed either way, but I'd obviously prefer to have my own car back and fully repaired at the end of this than have to fork out the extra cash to put me back into (what I personally view as) the equivalent car.
If anyone else has anything of assistance to add, any advice to give, then I'd appreciate it. But before today is out I'm going to have to at least report the occurrence to my own insurer. But at least (I hope) there's going to be no he said/she said b
h-fighting about blame as there might have been if it had been another car involved...vx220 said:
No advice, and sad to hear of your predicament, but "moon on a stick" made me laugh and cheered me up on an otherwise dull morning...
Well I'm glad to have cheered someone up with my tale of woe. All I have at the moment is the fact that "it could have been a lot worse"...TwigtheWonderkid said:
Yes, it's a common misconception. You insurance covers your legal liability to third parties. If you are not legally liable, it isn't covered, which isn't an issue, because you don't have to pay.
With a couple of rare exceptions specified in law, unless you were negligent, you aren't liable.
In a case like this, a supermarket might choose to pay, thus it's a commercial decision to please a customer and earn some goodwill. But they will do that from their own pocket, their insurance won't cover it.
Is this last bit why the Commercial Manager at the store talked about "getting two quotes and going from there", with mention of their legal department? With a couple of rare exceptions specified in law, unless you were negligent, you aren't liable.
In a case like this, a supermarket might choose to pay, thus it's a commercial decision to please a customer and earn some goodwill. But they will do that from their own pocket, their insurance won't cover it.
I've still not phoned this in. I'm not sure whether to try to go with the "talk to Sainsburys" route, or just claim on my own insurance and let them settle liability with the company. I know I have to report it though, regardless of which way I decide to proceed. Still feeling really glum about this, and not sure which way to go...
Breadvan72 said:
Yipper says: dominate the Sainsbury's.
Hmmm?Frozen sausages won't be a problem then. But they've got no lawn into which I could hammer them. Shame the store is all on the ground floor really, as I could have tried "dominating the escalator" if it were a two-floor store...
An update (of sorts)...
I've spoken to my insurance company. A lovely chat with a lady who lives just down the road from my mum (not that it makes any difference).
I went through the claim form procedure, and they do a "tick box repairability assessment" based on my answers to what panels are damaged and to what extent. Their 'system' says it's repairable. I still fear the roof damage is too much. But that's by-the-by. I asked for advice on whether to press Sainsbury's for a repair. Obviously the call centre advisor can't guide my decision, but if I make the claim through them (it's currently registered as an incident and status is 'anticipated') then I will have to pay my excess and reclaim it later from Sainsbury's (or their insurer). It would not be the case if it were another car, but for a tree, etc, there's apparently no "non-fault" route to go down.
One hairy moment was the question "where is the car normally kept". I answered honestly that it was off-road (on my driveway) but they had "garaged" down on their records. That put the wind up me, as I've never been dishonest with my insurer and have always declared it (on the proposal paperwork) as being on the driveway. I've never put the car in the garage, and I'm not even sure it would fit in and still allow me to get out of it! They're a broker-only insurer, no website, no direct sales of policies, so I'm guessing the broker mucked something up on the proposal and I've not noticed. Odd, as I'm pretty thorough going through paperwork and keeping records.
So my next step, I suppose, has to be to get hold of the commercial manager at the store, and work from there.
I know I'm dragging my heels over this, but in my defence I've had a lot of mental health issues over the last few years, and dealing with paperwork like this isn't something i feel comfortable with at the moment. But it has to be done. I do occasionally look at the car, hoping that it was all a bad dream, but the dents I'm confronted with mean it's all too real. Trees falling on cars? That's something that's supposed to happen to other people, and I get to see it on the news, right?
Ho-hum. Wish me luck as I take the next step of trying to contact the chap at the store now.
Oh, and at some point I will get some pictures put up. There'll be no custard though - it was fresh custard, not Birds powder, and we ate it with a nice Apple Strudel
I've spoken to my insurance company. A lovely chat with a lady who lives just down the road from my mum (not that it makes any difference).
I went through the claim form procedure, and they do a "tick box repairability assessment" based on my answers to what panels are damaged and to what extent. Their 'system' says it's repairable. I still fear the roof damage is too much. But that's by-the-by. I asked for advice on whether to press Sainsbury's for a repair. Obviously the call centre advisor can't guide my decision, but if I make the claim through them (it's currently registered as an incident and status is 'anticipated') then I will have to pay my excess and reclaim it later from Sainsbury's (or their insurer). It would not be the case if it were another car, but for a tree, etc, there's apparently no "non-fault" route to go down.
One hairy moment was the question "where is the car normally kept". I answered honestly that it was off-road (on my driveway) but they had "garaged" down on their records. That put the wind up me, as I've never been dishonest with my insurer and have always declared it (on the proposal paperwork) as being on the driveway. I've never put the car in the garage, and I'm not even sure it would fit in and still allow me to get out of it! They're a broker-only insurer, no website, no direct sales of policies, so I'm guessing the broker mucked something up on the proposal and I've not noticed. Odd, as I'm pretty thorough going through paperwork and keeping records.
So my next step, I suppose, has to be to get hold of the commercial manager at the store, and work from there.
I know I'm dragging my heels over this, but in my defence I've had a lot of mental health issues over the last few years, and dealing with paperwork like this isn't something i feel comfortable with at the moment. But it has to be done. I do occasionally look at the car, hoping that it was all a bad dream, but the dents I'm confronted with mean it's all too real. Trees falling on cars? That's something that's supposed to happen to other people, and I get to see it on the news, right?
Ho-hum. Wish me luck as I take the next step of trying to contact the chap at the store now.
Oh, and at some point I will get some pictures put up. There'll be no custard though - it was fresh custard, not Birds powder, and we ate it with a nice Apple Strudel
As an aside, I spotted this damaged 2016 Mondeo for sale...
http://www.goodwinsautosalvage.co.uk/cars/ford/mon...
...and the damage to it's roof looks a lot more extensive, but similar in nature to mine. Yet it shows a repair estimate of £2600 and talks of a new roof skin.
Maybe there's hope for a repair outcome on mine after all. I know mine is older, and worth less, etc, etc, but if 'the trade' are saying this one is repairable then fingers crossed. Although I know very little about car body repairs and what they cost (thank goodness), so it might be a glimmer of false hope...
http://www.goodwinsautosalvage.co.uk/cars/ford/mon...
...and the damage to it's roof looks a lot more extensive, but similar in nature to mine. Yet it shows a repair estimate of £2600 and talks of a new roof skin.
Maybe there's hope for a repair outcome on mine after all. I know mine is older, and worth less, etc, etc, but if 'the trade' are saying this one is repairable then fingers crossed. Although I know very little about car body repairs and what they cost (thank goodness), so it might be a glimmer of false hope...
Yipper said:
Simply cannot believe you have involved your own insurer!
You now have a black mark against your personal insurance record (through zero fault of your own) and all the potential that has for higher premiums or tougher renewals in the future. Insurers count everything against customers in their attempts to maximise revenues (whether they admit it publicly or not).
Just to repeat -- a Sainsbury's tree in a Sainsbury's carpark smashed up a Sainsbury's customer's car... It is absolutely no different to if a Sainsbury's truck in a Sainsbury's carpark had smashed up a Sainsbury's customer's car... Sainsbury's pays.
There's a contractual obligation to inform your insurance company of any occurrence which may alter the terms of your insurance. I'd far rather take a bit of a hit at renewal time than for them to find out later and refuse to insure me at all, or even worse, cancel my policy. Because then, when I went after quotes for a new policy I'd have to declare that I had been refused insurance - and that is a far blacker mark than a claim, as far as insurance companies are concerned.You now have a black mark against your personal insurance record (through zero fault of your own) and all the potential that has for higher premiums or tougher renewals in the future. Insurers count everything against customers in their attempts to maximise revenues (whether they admit it publicly or not).
Just to repeat -- a Sainsbury's tree in a Sainsbury's carpark smashed up a Sainsbury's customer's car... It is absolutely no different to if a Sainsbury's truck in a Sainsbury's carpark had smashed up a Sainsbury's customer's car... Sainsbury's pays.
Furthermore, if Sainsbury's do get arsey and try to wriggle out of liability, I have already reported the incident to my insurer, who has assured me that I will be covered by them under the terms of my fully comprehensive policy. If I'd not told them about it, and a few weeks along the line Sainsbury's suddenly refused to play ball, then I can imagine some eyebrows being raised when I began claim proceedings.
You may feel that I'm ill-advised to do this, but this way I've met my obligation to provide any and all information and assistance to my insurer, even if I do not need to claim through them. As per my contract terms. I can see no major advantage in trying to sweep this under the carpet because insurers do share information, and if Sainsbury's involve their insurance company then I'm pretty sure it'll be possible for my insurer to find out about the claim anyway. Maybe I'm being naive here, but I've always dealt honestly with people and companies I come into contact with. It's just the way I am.
OP again! No updates of any note from me, I'm afraid.
Sorry to say that this has knocked me back quite a bit. I was coming to the end of a course of 'therapy' for depression and anxiety issues when it happened. It's taken me until now to get myself back together, and as a consequence, I've not actually got around to getting any quotes/estimates yet.
Anyone got any particular recommendations for good bodyshops in and around the Farnborough/Aldershot area? I'm going to give myself a "damned good talking to" with a view to getting things moving again on Monday now...
Sorry to say that this has knocked me back quite a bit. I was coming to the end of a course of 'therapy' for depression and anxiety issues when it happened. It's taken me until now to get myself back together, and as a consequence, I've not actually got around to getting any quotes/estimates yet.
Anyone got any particular recommendations for good bodyshops in and around the Farnborough/Aldershot area? I'm going to give myself a "damned good talking to" with a view to getting things moving again on Monday now...
As it stands, it's been placed (by Sainsburys) into the hands of a law firm.
They've given themselves 3 months to investigate. Because I was slow in getting an estimate for the repairs to them, Sainsburys passed it along to this legal lot before they'd even seen my quote/estimate.
Me? I got an estimate for repairs from the local Ford Accident Repair Centre. It's not looking good really. I paid £30 to have the estimate done, and they reckon it'll cost £7845.61 inc VAT to put things right, and that's presuming they won't need to break any more eggs to make a bigger omelette. To be honest, it's most of the value of the car, and possibly more than it's worth too.
No response yet from them after I emailed a scanned copy of the estimate.
So it's still full of dents, I'm still driving it, and it's all still up in the air really.
I'm not sure what to do next. The insurance renewal is coming up fast, and the MOT will be due too. Who knows? It may pass for the bodywork, in which case I can continue driving it. If not, then it becomes next to worthless, I'll have no car to use, and it's too big to be of any use as a paperweight.
The only plus really is that it drives as well as ever it did, and everything still works as it should. It literally is only metal panels and a window trim part that are damaged. I might have had this sorted a lot quicker if it were a non-rotten tree that fell on it, and it had been an obviously undriveable write-off from the outset...
They've given themselves 3 months to investigate. Because I was slow in getting an estimate for the repairs to them, Sainsburys passed it along to this legal lot before they'd even seen my quote/estimate.
Me? I got an estimate for repairs from the local Ford Accident Repair Centre. It's not looking good really. I paid £30 to have the estimate done, and they reckon it'll cost £7845.61 inc VAT to put things right, and that's presuming they won't need to break any more eggs to make a bigger omelette. To be honest, it's most of the value of the car, and possibly more than it's worth too.
No response yet from them after I emailed a scanned copy of the estimate.
So it's still full of dents, I'm still driving it, and it's all still up in the air really.
I'm not sure what to do next. The insurance renewal is coming up fast, and the MOT will be due too. Who knows? It may pass for the bodywork, in which case I can continue driving it. If not, then it becomes next to worthless, I'll have no car to use, and it's too big to be of any use as a paperweight.
The only plus really is that it drives as well as ever it did, and everything still works as it should. It literally is only metal panels and a window trim part that are damaged. I might have had this sorted a lot quicker if it were a non-rotten tree that fell on it, and it had been an obviously undriveable write-off from the outset...
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