Bad driving on M25
Discussion
Ok so not happened to me but a friend who is not a member here, I would like the opinion of the BIB as IMO the way this has been handled is disgusting, Im not sure how to embed clips so I will just post links, please view and tell me how in your opinion this should have been dealt with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLnP27Pj7Po
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6kSseT07xo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLnP27Pj7Po
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6kSseT07xo
so he can just drive into a car because he indicated? He hit the car in the second clip, you could say why didnt he brake but what if there was a car right behind he brakes and gets rear ended and the idiot drives away scot free. The car in second clip was correct distance from car in front.
So its ok for a car in lane 2 to just drive into lane 3 twice with no concern as to what is there? Even worse when stopped he is unaware of any collision or doubtful driving, in fact he pulled straight off hard shoulder in front of an Artic causing it to swerve into lane 2. You guys seriously think this guy should have a licence ? Why would you think a competent driver would just carry on turning into a lane with no room. Theres actually another thread on here asking about very similar scenario where a car comes down a slip road and car in lane 1 moves to lane 2 but slip road car comes into lane 2, asking if a crash occurs who is at fault and the answer was car coming down the slip road. So answer this if the car in lane 3 filming had braked and got hit from behind who is responsible?
Really only want an opinion from someone who actually knows the law, if this had resulted in a multiple pile up who caused it? Like I said how do you know dashcam car was not being tailgated, yet again I say he brakes and gets hit who pays? Lots of cars indicate they want to come into the next lane and wait for a space. Im actually lost for words that anyone could say the dashcam car is in the wrong.
t show of idiots.Ok guys it seriously wasnt me, the traffic at the time was moving at 40mph, the gap to me looks like 4 car lengths in the dash cam car, the driver siad he braked when the car contacted him although I would say doesnt appear to, the first clip is showing I agree 2 drivers in the wrong but is not the same 2 cars. The white ford refued to stop and I believe called the police because the driver of dashcam car followed him trying to stop him, I think he pulled over at a spot the police told him to as he was he said frightened, he denied any content or forcing into non existent gaps, he refused to speak to dashcam driver and the police took his details and sent him on his way after viewing the clip, they said an error of judgement, they refused to breathalise him and held dash cam driver for a period that he could not follow the white car. saying nothing to investigate.
Are we saying the 4 car gap is to small at 40mph? And again I ask if this had resulted in a pile up who would be liable? Driver of the white ford was a 60 something male and I do not think there was any 'incident' earlier on, it appears white ford man just drives like this all the time.
Edit to say that while I do not know the dash cam driver particularly well he does not strike me as the aggressive type, just normal middle age guy.
Are we saying the 4 car gap is to small at 40mph? And again I ask if this had resulted in a pile up who would be liable? Driver of the white ford was a 60 something male and I do not think there was any 'incident' earlier on, it appears white ford man just drives like this all the time.
Edit to say that while I do not know the dash cam driver particularly well he does not strike me as the aggressive type, just normal middle age guy.
Edited by Mr10secs on Monday 2nd April 13:33
TooMany2cvs said:
So you don't know either driver, but are privy to the conversations between them, and between them and the police - and have access to the dashcam in the second incident?
<re-reads> Hold on - you ARE aware they're two completely different incidents, right? Different surrounding traffic, different white Fords, different vehicles playing pushy-shovey with them...
At the end of the day, the Ford drivers simply didn't look... while the other drivers actively manufactured a situation. One of them is careless, the other is dangerous. And it isn't the way round you seem to think.
Are you actually stupid or just trying to cause an argument or maybe cannot read that well as I state that I do not know the dashcam driver that well, ie he is not amongst my close circle of friends! And you come back with 'so you don't know either driver etc. Does the village know you are missing yet?<re-reads> Hold on - you ARE aware they're two completely different incidents, right? Different surrounding traffic, different white Fords, different vehicles playing pushy-shovey with them...
At the end of the day, the Ford drivers simply didn't look... while the other drivers actively manufactured a situation. One of them is careless, the other is dangerous. And it isn't the way round you seem to think.
TooMany2cvs said:
<sigh> YKWIM, and I suspect the vehemence of your protestation speaks volumes.
He's apparently some kind of vague acquaintance, yet you seem to know him well enough to take his account at absolute face value and be handed a copy of the video.
Actually yes, a vague acquaintance who is part of another forum that we all regularly meet up and go road trips to Europe etc, and yes why would I not believe him. He's apparently some kind of vague acquaintance, yet you seem to know him well enough to take his account at absolute face value and be handed a copy of the video.
cmaguire said:
It was actually mostly the Fiesta driver's fault.
The fact so many here seem to think otherwise perhaps goes some way to explaining why I see so much incompetent driving on a regular basis.
Thats the way I saw it but we are clearly in the minority in that respect, but I suppose everyone has an opinion and mine was clearly either wrong or not correct according to the masses. I would only add that had dashcam car actively been trying to close the gap (which doesnt really look like it closes) then surely he would have actually kept the car alongside him and not let him get into a position where there was any opportunity to pull in front. On that note guys hope you all enjoy whats left of the Easter holidays and all back to work in the morning. The fact so many here seem to think otherwise perhaps goes some way to explaining why I see so much incompetent driving on a regular basis.
TooMany2cvs said:
Let's just re-watch those vids, shall we?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLnP27Pj7Po
What d'you reckon the gap is between the Skoda and the black car? 1 car length? 2 at most?
0.07 - the Fiesta's indicator comes on, and he starts to gently bimble towards the line.
0.09 - the Fiesta's tyres cross the line, and the Skoda's brake lights come on - but he actually closes the gap on the black car.
0.11 - they're both side-by-side in L3, the Skoda's mirror damn near touching the solid white line to the right of the lane, and the Fiesta more in L3 than L2. They're closer to the black car than ever - and the Skoda's brake lights go out.
0.13 - the Fiesta's nearside tyres touch the L2/3 lines, and the Skoda's still alongside him - but he's gone back on the brakes.
0.15 - finally, the Skoda admits defeat, and drops back and into the centre of the lane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLnP27Pj7Po
Absolutely pissing wet, seems to be less than a second gap between the camera car and the car in front, going by the lane dividers. Dark car in front in L4 not really closing on the car in L3.
0.02 - here comes the front wing of the Fiesta on the left...
0.06 - and here's the tail light.
0.09 - the Fiesta's no further forward, clear of the camera car, but starts to move towards the lane divider. Gap to car in front still the same.
0.10 - the Fiesta's completely in front of the camera car, and the tyres are clear of the divider line... And the camera car accelerates, and visibly closing on the car in front.
0.12 - the cars ahead in L3 and L4 are now alongside each other, barely two or three car lengths ahead of the camera car and Fiesta.
0.13 - we can see the Fiesta's centre brake light - off. VERY close to the front of the camera car.
0.14 - the Fiesta's completely in front, and brakes after he's nudged.
0.15 - the Fiesta pulls forward a bit relative to the camera car, but still on the brakes, and moves back to L3, now about a car length from the back of the car originally in L4.
Now, tell me how I've misinterpreted that, how this wasn't utter contributory wuckfittery on the part of the Skoda in the first clip and camera car in the second, and how the Skoda and camera car did everything they could possibly have done to avoid these situations developing...?
Lets watch clip 2 again! the fiesta when contact is made is NOT in front of the camera car as the camera car contacts his rear wing/side of bumper and almost performs a PIT manoeuvre on the fiesta as you can see it starts to almost spin out.I would say he then braked which is why the fiesta did not spin outhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLnP27Pj7Po
What d'you reckon the gap is between the Skoda and the black car? 1 car length? 2 at most?
0.07 - the Fiesta's indicator comes on, and he starts to gently bimble towards the line.
0.09 - the Fiesta's tyres cross the line, and the Skoda's brake lights come on - but he actually closes the gap on the black car.
0.11 - they're both side-by-side in L3, the Skoda's mirror damn near touching the solid white line to the right of the lane, and the Fiesta more in L3 than L2. They're closer to the black car than ever - and the Skoda's brake lights go out.
0.13 - the Fiesta's nearside tyres touch the L2/3 lines, and the Skoda's still alongside him - but he's gone back on the brakes.
0.15 - finally, the Skoda admits defeat, and drops back and into the centre of the lane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLnP27Pj7Po
Absolutely pissing wet, seems to be less than a second gap between the camera car and the car in front, going by the lane dividers. Dark car in front in L4 not really closing on the car in L3.
0.02 - here comes the front wing of the Fiesta on the left...
0.06 - and here's the tail light.
0.09 - the Fiesta's no further forward, clear of the camera car, but starts to move towards the lane divider. Gap to car in front still the same.
0.10 - the Fiesta's completely in front of the camera car, and the tyres are clear of the divider line... And the camera car accelerates, and visibly closing on the car in front.
0.12 - the cars ahead in L3 and L4 are now alongside each other, barely two or three car lengths ahead of the camera car and Fiesta.
0.13 - we can see the Fiesta's centre brake light - off. VERY close to the front of the camera car.
0.14 - the Fiesta's completely in front, and brakes after he's nudged.
0.15 - the Fiesta pulls forward a bit relative to the camera car, but still on the brakes, and moves back to L3, now about a car length from the back of the car originally in L4.
Now, tell me how I've misinterpreted that, how this wasn't utter contributory wuckfittery on the part of the Skoda in the first clip and camera car in the second, and how the Skoda and camera car did everything they could possibly have done to avoid these situations developing...?
Edited by Mr10secs on Monday 2nd April 16:32
Mr10secs said:
Lets watch clip 2 again! the fiesta when contact is made is NOT in front of the camera car as the camera car contacts his rear wing/side of bumper and almost performs a PIT manoeuvre on the fiesta as you can see it starts to almost spin out.I would say he then braked which is why the fiesta did not spin out, there is not a gap between fiesta and dashcam car or he would have nudged him straight in the rear!
Edited by Mr10secs on Monday 2nd April 16:32
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