Fraudulant Card Payment

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DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Friday 17th August 2018
quotequote all
Just looking for some advice

I work at a motor factors and as such we regularly take card payments over the phone

One such payment I took last week turned out to be fraudulent, obviously I have absolutely no way of knowing this over the phone, the company have told me I have no choice but to cover the full invoice cost personally out of my wages, £447, to me that is quite a lot of money

Does anyone know where I stand on this? It's blind luck that I happened to take that phone call and had I known the payment was fraudulent I obviously wouldn't have put it through

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Friday 17th August 2018
quotequote all
I now refuse to take any payments over the phone and all my colleagues are doing the same

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Friday 17th August 2018
quotequote all
Butter Face said:
Absolutely, the company cannot reasonably expect you to take payments and then charge you if they are fraudulent.

Have you a company handbook that you can see which may have something referring to them taking money from your wages? Seems utter madness to me.
I'm going to dig out my contract/terms of employment tonight and have a read through

I feel hung out to dry by the company to be honest



Edited by DannyScene on Thursday 23 August 16:39

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Friday 17th August 2018
quotequote all
megaphone said:
I don't understand, if you take a payment over the phone then it needs to be authorised by the CC company, once done surely it's their responsibility?

Did it get shipped to an alternative address?
They actually came in store to collect the parts

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Friday 17th August 2018
quotequote all
randlemarcus said:
If you want to put the company on actual notice that you aren't going to accept this, probably worth a formal note withdrawing any previous permission to deduct any amount from your wages.

I am not a lawyer of any sort, but logic would dictate this is a sensible first step, just in case there's a clause in your contract.
If I can find nothing regarding card payments in my contract I think this would be a good course of action

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Friday 17th August 2018
quotequote all
Order66 said:
This is illegal. It is an "unlawful deduction from wages" for which you have statutory protection under the Employment Rights Act 1996.

Tell them to get fcked. If they sack you haul them over the coals for wrongful dismissal.
I'll have to check my contract I think tonight and if there's nothing in there covering card payments ill have to escalate

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Friday 17th August 2018
quotequote all
megaphone said:
DannyScene said:
megaphone said:
I don't understand, if you take a payment over the phone then it needs to be authorised by the CC company, once done surely it's their responsibility?

Did it get shipped to an alternative address?
They actually came in store to collect the parts
So that is the mistake. Protection does not kick in if you don't send the items, you should have taken a card payment in store. All this is basic stuff, what is the company policy re online/phone payments and collections?

We will not take phone payments or online payments and allow collection, unless we know the customer. Been caught out before.
It's something we do quite a lot, someone will ring up order some parts then say their partner will be coming in to collect them

Looks like I might just have to swallow this one

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Friday 17th August 2018
quotequote all
Drew106 said:
Last time I ordered something from Screwfix for collection, I had to enter my PIN when collecting. Even though I had already paid.

Not sure if that's in anyway helpful, just know these two stores operate in similar ways.
There is no way for a customer to enter their pin as way of confirmation on our machines or if there is it has never been enabled

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Friday 17th August 2018
quotequote all
JPJPJP said:
What is the process for taking a card payment over the phone where the customer then appears in person to collect?

Does it involve seeing the card at the point of collection?
It doesn't

They ring up we set the job up under their reg, they pay over the phone then quote their reg on collection so we can identify their order

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Friday 17th August 2018
quotequote all
megaphone said:
DannyScene said:
megaphone said:
DannyScene said:
megaphone said:
I don't understand, if you take a payment over the phone then it needs to be authorised by the CC company, once done surely it's their responsibility?

Did it get shipped to an alternative address?
They actually came in store to collect the parts
So that is the mistake. Protection does not kick in if you don't send the items, you should have taken a card payment in store. All this is basic stuff, what is the company policy re online/phone payments and collections?

We will not take phone payments or online payments and allow collection, unless we know the customer. Been caught out before.
It's something we do quite a lot, someone will ring up order some parts then say their partner will be coming in to collect them

Looks like I might just have to swallow this one
Why should you have to swallow? If it's common practice then it is the companies fault for allowing this, again you need to find out what the procedure is for taking card payments, if you have not followed the correct procedure then you are somewhat to blame.

Have you ever been given any training or info on how to take payments?
I've taken probably 1000s of card payments since I started here 4/5 years ago and never had anything flag up in audit or anything until this one

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Friday 17th August 2018
quotequote all
Jakg said:
Would the deductions take you under minimum wage?
thankfully not but it would likely take me close

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Friday 17th August 2018
quotequote all
codenamecueball said:
The employer should be reporting the person to the police and using the CCTV and call records to help with that instead of pursuing their staff for their problems.
I believe the police have contacted us to let us know the card was fraudulent

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Friday 17th August 2018
quotequote all
JPJPJP said:
Yes, you have the card details, house number, postcode and reg details.. that could be enough for the police to have a look surely? CCTV even better.

Is the address quite local to your branch?

If you have followed the card payment process (or if there isn't one documented), then there is no way you should be paying personally

If there is a documented process that doesn't meet the security needs of the payment processor and, therefore, allows such fraud (i.e. without the pin), then there is no way you should be paying personally
We didn't have CCTV at the time

What I've been told is very vague, I was called into a mangers office and the conversation literally went like this

'Danny you've taken a payment off a fraudulent card so you're liable for the £447 we'll be taking it off your next wage'

I argued they could split it over the next 3 months which they've agreed to do and made it clear they were doing me a favour

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Friday 17th August 2018
quotequote all
I'm going to check my contract when I get home and see if there is anything in there that means I am liable before I try and take this any further

It was a hell of a shock when they told me I would be paying as I always assumed they'd have insurance to cover themselves or that they'd at least want to try look after a member of staff

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Friday 17th August 2018
quotequote all
Bumblebee7 said:
DannyScene said:
I'm going to check my contract when I get home and see if there is anything in there that means I am liable before I try and take this any further

It was a hell of a shock when they told me I would be paying as I always assumed they'd have insurance to cover themselves or that they'd at least want to try look after a member of staff
By all means check your contract but even if such a clause exists it would surely fall under the Unfair Contract Terms Act as a completely unfair and unenforceable standard term in a contract. They categorically cannot hold you liable for your actions, especially as what you did does not fall outside of the standard practices of the company.

Companies rarely look after their employees when push comes to shove, a company will not put the staff's needs before its own, if circumstances change etc. most companies will look at their staff as a number on a page and act accordingly.
I guess that part was naïve of me, I came from a company that was built up by one guy who still headed it up and treat every staff member like family despite being worth 100s of millions to a big national company that treats staff as you say like a number on a page

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Friday 17th August 2018
quotequote all
Is it worth going to internal HR and should I ask my manager if it is his decision or wether it came from higher up?

I don't want to challenge it, stir the pot and makes things worse for me in the long run

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
JPJPJP said:
Did you get anywhere with this OP?
I've messaged a company in Leeds that someone posted on here however they haven't come back to me yet so I'll be chasing that up today

My manager called me into his office yesterday to sign a permission form for them to deduct money from my wages which I refused to do much to his disgust

I've also emailed HR for a copy of my contracts and they've advised that I started in march of whatever year and they didn't start using the document storage system until September so they couldn't provide me with one which seems odd

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
Durzel said:
Make sure whatever contract they end up showing you is the one you've signed, rather than one hastily typed up by someone in the HR department which mysteriously has this deductions clause added.
I was thinking that


Unless they show me a contract that I have physically signed I will not be agreeing to any deductions on my wage

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
55palfers said:
Did your manager try to get you to sign fr the full £450?

I say again, even if they were allowed to make the deduction, it should only be at cost price with no VAT.

Challenge him / her.
Yes it was the full amount but split between the next 3 paydays

DannyScene

Original Poster:

6,628 posts

155 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
The Mad Monk said:
DannyScene said:
I've also emailed HR for a copy of my contracts and they've advised that I started in march of whatever year and they didn't start using the document storage system until September so they couldn't provide me with one which seems odd
Well, that's not a problem. Simply refer to your own copy of your contract of employment.

You obviously were given a copy which you have kept in a safe place.

Take a copy of your copy, leave the original at home, and take the copy into work and quote that to everyone. If they say, 'show us', you can let them have the second copy because you have the first copy at home.
I never received a copy hence my emailing for one, sorry I thought that was obvious