speed camera obsession

[up_shift]

So its been a while since ive done any real mileage around the country. somehow the magnitude of the obsession with speed cameras passed me by. it feels like almost every stretch of the motorways i went though to Scotland and back were littered with speed camera signs, the off-gantry cameras to the side like you see on the M3/Ma/many others, traditional gantry cameras, you name it.

Meanwhile the mrs smashed into some brickwork that was spewed across the motorway in the hire car, highway patrol nowhere in sight in the 30 mins it took me to unpack and install the spare (I bloody hate space savers), and there were a few other near misses in this time.

I saw a landrover undertake and then side-swipe a 3 series, a mondeo doing 50 in the right lane of an otherwise empty motorway, trucks driving up the arses of cars, the list goes on. Not to mention the mess on the M25 that almost unfolded when two lanes said 30mph and the other two 50.

I can't be the only one that thinks the focus on speed is becoming comical meanwhile the actual causes of a lot of the accidents out there are getting ignored?

Would love to see some stats or studies of mway crashes in proximity to cameras etc if anyone has any?

[up_shift]

280E said:

Which might have been avoided had she been driving more slowly

Nope - it would have been avoided if she had greater distance between her and the truck in front, as she would have had time to see the bricks and avoid; which she did not. Shew as actually going 20 mph under the national speed limit.. Partly what started this rant/quest for info/opinion

She was no closer or further than most of the cars in the area - all of which were too close imo (ie under 2 seconds)

Edited by up_shift on Wednesday 19th September 22:54

[up_shift]

Dave Finney said:

Further to the serious crashes, here are the results for PICs (Personal Injury Collisions) from the largest report on speed cameras on British motorways:

a 3% reduction in PICs where average speed cameras were deployed
a 17% increase in PICs where fixed (Gatso) speed cameras were deployed
a 19% reduction in PICs where there was a Police presence

Are either of those answers what you were requesting, up_shift?

Good find cheers Do you have a link to the report by any chance?

R0G said:

speed camera obsession.....

The only people I can see with such see be the drivers who for some reason have become unable to stick within the limits which they demonstrated they could do when they passed e driving test

Perhaps my observations are flawed in some way which I am unable to see using common sense and logic ?

"obsession" was probably a bit of an extreme word to use - but to clarify I suppose I was more referring to the disproportionate focus on deploying cameras over other means of road safety (both active and passive). Although I do believe that there's a point at which it becomes counter-productive. I was a bit shocked with just how extensive the rollout of cameras appears to have been so would love to know (statistically and factually) whether it is actually effective, purely a money maker or if it's actually doing any harm.

Edited by up_shift on Sunday 23 September 18:14

[up_shift]

R0G said:

...become unable to stick within the limits which they demonstrated they could do when they passed e driving test

Just playing devil's advocate but - Speaking of the driving test - I was told to check my speed every 5 seconds.

So if that's the metric we're using, let's say it takes 1.5 seconds to look at your speed, interpret it / have your eyes adjust and make corrective actions. Not long at all. But if you extrapolate that into an hour drive, unless my maths is off, which it might be its 3am and I'm jetlagged, that's 13 minutes spent not looking at the road out of every hour..

Not much, but when you think that at 70mph you travel around 0.019 miles per second, then over an hour you would spend 16 miles out of 70 not actually looking at the road or blindspots etc. So over my 5 hour drive, that's 80 miles not actually looking at the road, the distance from London to Portsmouth.

Now while I get that it's not as linear as that, but I recall an advert focusing on the amount of distance traveled when looking at your phone for one second. Now I don't think its ok to use a phone, I lock mine away, but by the same token then should they be encouraging people into a similar situation by sticking up cameras at every opportunity?

I've also seen 3 rear-ends and at least 4 near misses where a car has seen a hidden/discrete speed camera and paniced. (I get that cameras being visible / hidden is possibly another topic albeit closely related) The default answer here is usually ''they shouldn't have been speeding then''. But they weren't. Steady streams of traffic, travelling at the speed limit and it seems that people have suddenly caught view of a hidden camera. At speed, some react by default by braking. Same way if you see any sudden 'hazard'. Next person hits them. Sort of highlights that in many instance the problem isn't in fact speeding itself.

Would also be good to know what other work has been done where speed cameras have been installed - I read stats on a place near my home town in Slough to suggest that some cameras did calm things down - it omitted that warning signs of a concealed entrance had been put up along with some hard traffic calming a half a mile prior - but they atttributed all safety goodness to the presence of the camera..

Edited by up_shift on Sunday 23 September 19:05

[up_shift]

vonhosen said:

Did you investigate why that was necessary or whether the source telling you that was a reliable source?
I was never told that for my driving test.

Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 23 September 20:03

2 instructors from the largest driving school, and the head examiner locally both said the same, so as a learner trying to pass a test I'd take that as reliable.. Of course it's not a 'rule' but if we're talking about maintaining driving practices at the test.. irrespective of what the 'actual' guideline should or shouldn't be, the principle is the same, more cameras will equal more glances which will equal more time not looking at the road. Add that to a motorcycle situation where the senses are more overloaded and time is more critical and it amplifies the potential.

[up_shift]

BertBert said:

What on earth do you mean 'reliable' ? I assume you aren't a learner and have done enough driving to be able to keep to a speed with enough accuracy not to get a ticket? It's really rather easy and not at all distracting. I reckon it takes at most 1/10th of a second to look at the speedo.

Don't get me wrong, I only have a fleeting regard for speed limits, but at least I accept that and don't say palpably daft things about how hard it is to keep to the limit. I presume you've certainly got no time to look in all your mirrors? And as for shoulder checking before you change lane, heaven forbid
Bert

that's kind of the point thoug - time looking down is time not looking at the mirrors and blindspots Like I say, only playing devil's advocate, we can argue until the cows come home on how much it actually takes your attention away (again - hence the quest for some hard figures etc) , but if theres a reason for steering wheel controls and conveniences to stop you looking down, you have to wonder if it's risky encouraging the same action more regularly (even if split seconds, I guarantee that on a motorbike or even a car with a speedo in the centre of dash it will cause more eye fatigue and take longer to check than on cars with a HUD) but:

ghe13rte said:

No

Poor driving = more glances at the speedometer to maintain speed
Poor awareness and attitude to traffic regulations = more anxiety about where and how much speed enforcement is in place

A determination to drive well and within the regulations well-known to qualified drivers means you need to forget about enforcement completely as it doesn't affect you.

If you have been driving while qualified for more than 1 years and you are still applying rudimentary advice from your driving instructor then you should really be thinking about handing in our licence or taking some form of remedial training.

Well hold on a minute, let's not take this out of context. it was addressing the point that:

said:

The only people I can see with such see be the drivers who for some reason have become unable to stick within the limits which they demonstrated they could do when they passed e driving test

Hence why it was basing it on metrics taught whilst learning.

Do I check my speedo as often as that? probably not and I won't go into 'my speedo checks are faster than yours' but It is a simple fact that more cameras = more checking of speedos, regardless of how much you check in between.

More glances doesn't mean poor driving, nor does poor awareness mean more anxiety. Many people have anxiety about cameras because their licences are important.. I don't care how advanced a driver you are, you simply don't know if your speed has crept up a mph or two due to a sight incline without checking on your speedo. Cameras that catch you out when such has happened mean extra vigilance.

Graveworm said:

But equally I know how fast I am travelling without having to look at the speedo. But even if I didn't then heads up displays and audible warnings (For cars and bikes) exist which amongst other things can tell you if you are exceeding the limit or indeed the average speed where it applies. So I can't accept that this is a real issue for anyone who should be driving.

Agree - to a degree, I know how fast I am travelling, but do I want to risk a ticket on a gut feeling as opposed to knowing for sure? not really. None of my cars or bikes bar one tell me if I've exceeded a speed limit, and even then that function isn't going to get set at every change in speed limit

gothatway said:

See here to see that the UK was better than Germany in every respect.

Good find, I'd wonder if theres the same information in more detail, i.e. what the nature of the biggest accidents where, are they owing to the fact that the country has more mways, more fatigue etc or if it is a simple case of where the speed is higher more people die

Edited by up_shift on Monday 24th September 22:04