Scratch on colleagues car

[Aiminghigh123]

Ok. My work called me into a meeting and accused me of scratching a colleagues car.

We all park in a busy public car park.

Now a colleague of mine claimed someone scratch his BMW (I think it’s an m3 or m5) on the rear wing, door, front wing and complained to our manager. CCTV is limited in the car park but they have footage of someone, who they claim is me walking past his car and have not found anyone else walking past his car at any other point during that day.
They claim the CCTV is not clear enough to see faces and they only found it was me because they saw me get into my car and it got clocked as the next car to drive out of the car park via the number plate recognition system.

It happened about 4 months ago and I can’t really recall the days they are talking about equally I have asked to see the footage myself but this isn’t possible for security reasons. I also spoke to my car insurance and they said the fact it happened in a public car park starts coming into grey areas on car insurance and it does state on entry “parking is at owners risk” but also as I wasn’t in my car at the time I wouldn’t be covered.
I am at odds as to what I should do.
I haven’t contacted the person directly, I don’t really know the person but we do work together occasionally. I have been off work for a while so haven’t seen them.
Now my sceptical side says what if it happened by someone else and CCTV didn’t see it?
They can’t actually see it’s me so what legal basis do they have?
Did the person have the scratches before they came to work and want to try and get someone else to pay for the damage? Or they just didn’t notice scratches until that day?
I did not intentionally scratch there car may have caught it with my bag/jacket zip if it was me who walked past there car but all the way down the car?
Do I just bite the bullet and pay for his repairs and accept it may have been me?
Do I wait and see if he takes me to court?

Thanks

[Aiminghigh123]

No the accusation is I walked past his car and scratched it.

I think the car park company keeps CCTV for 6 months the main reason it is in place is because people have been assaulted in the car park.

[Aiminghigh123]

To me it’s the fact of the claim being scratches down the whole side of the car on the passenger side as well I believe.
I have had my door dented before, only a small dent on my drivers door but I knew it wasn’t there before.
Partly why I have an older banger for my commute.

[Aiminghigh123]

megaphone said:

You say this is a public car park? Or is it the company you work for's car park? Why have Security let the company you work for see CCTV and not you?

All sounds a bit iffy, are you sure there is no back story here?

It’s a public car park but our company pays for us to use it.
It’s managed by a separate car park security.
I asked to speak to the car park security manager but he is on holiday until new year.

[Aiminghigh123]

graylag said:

Aiminghigh123 said:

Ok. My work called me into a meeting and accused me of scratching a colleagues car.

We all park in a busy public car park.

Now a colleague of mine claimed someone scratch his BMW (I think it’s an m3 or m5) on the rear wing, door, front wing and complained to our manager. CCTV is limited in the car park but they have footage of someone, who they claim is me walking past his car and have not found anyone else walking past his car at any other point during that day.
They claim the CCTV is not clear enough to see faces and they only found it was me because they saw me get into my car and it got clocked as the next car to drive out of the car park via the number plate recognition system.

It happened about 4 months ago and I can’t really recall the days they are talking about equally I have asked to see the footage myself but this isn’t possible for security reasons. I also spoke to my car insurance and they said the fact it happened in a public car park starts coming into grey areas on car insurance and it does state on entry “parking is at owners risk” but also as I wasn’t in my car at the time I wouldn’t be covered.
I am at odds as to what I should do.
I haven’t contacted the person directly, I don’t really know the person but we do work together occasionally. I have been off work for a while so haven’t seen them.
Now my sceptical side says what if it happened by someone else and CCTV didn’t see it?
They can’t actually see it’s me so what legal basis do they have?
Did the person have the scratches before they came to work and want to try and get someone else to pay for the damage? Or they just didn’t notice scratches until that day?
I did not intentionally scratch there car may have caught it with my bag/jacket zip if it was me who walked past there car but all the way down the car?
Do I just bite the bullet and pay for his repairs and accept it may have been me?
Do I wait and see if he takes me to court?

Thanks

Based on what you’ve described, you’re talking about keying his car, not scratching it. Taking it at face value that it’s a true story, then I think there’s a lot more to this incident, especially from your side.

So you think I did this deliberately?

A. I wouldn’t scratch someone’s car.

B. I would have to know who’s car to target. I didn’t know he had a BMW.

C. It happened ages ago. I can barely remember things that happened last week let alone month. My misses would vouch for my memory.

[Aiminghigh123]

Torquey said:

graylag said:

Aiminghigh123 said:

Ok. My work called me into a meeting and accused me of scratching a colleagues car.

We all park in a busy public car park.

Now a colleague of mine claimed someone scratch his BMW (I think it’s an m3 or m5) on the rear wing, door, front wing and complained to our manager. CCTV is limited in the car park but they have footage of someone, who they claim is me walking past his car and have not found anyone else walking past his car at any other point during that day.
They claim the CCTV is not clear enough to see faces and they only found it was me because they saw me get into my car and it got clocked as the next car to drive out of the car park via the number plate recognition system.

It happened about 4 months ago and I can’t really recall the days they are talking about equally I have asked to see the footage myself but this isn’t possible for security reasons. I also spoke to my car insurance and they said the fact it happened in a public car park starts coming into grey areas on car insurance and it does state on entry “parking is at owners risk” but also as I wasn’t in my car at the time I wouldn’t be covered.
I am at odds as to what I should do.
I haven’t contacted the person directly, I don’t really know the person but we do work together occasionally. I have been off work for a while so haven’t seen them.
Now my sceptical side says what if it happened by someone else and CCTV didn’t see it?
They can’t actually see it’s me so what legal basis do they have?
Did the person have the scratches before they came to work and want to try and get someone else to pay for the damage? Or they just didn’t notice scratches until that day?
I did not intentionally scratch there car may have caught it with my bag/jacket zip if it was me who walked past there car but all the way down the car?
Do I just bite the bullet and pay for his repairs and accept it may have been me?
Do I wait and see if he takes me to court?

Thanks

Based on what you’ve described, you’re talking about keying his car, not scratching it. Taking it at face value that it’s a true story, then I think there’s a lot more to this incident, especially from your side.

I think you'd be well aware if I'd scratched a rear wing, door and front wing, even if it was accidental. You don't catch the full length of a car with a zip or bag.

Why has it taken 4 months for this to come about?

That’s what I think a scratch full length with a zip or bag I would know plus can you do that much damage with a zip or bag?

4 months well the only logical reason is I see we have had a change of manager and maybe the older manager couldn’t be bothered.

[Aiminghigh123]

Du1point8 said:

The OP knows damn well if they scratched someones car, something like that is a massive scratch that would need some pressure to scrach the paint.

If you're asking then it sounds like you know a lot more than you are letting on, and trying to work out if they can tell its you.

Did you scrach the car OP?

No I didn’t scratch his car.

I’m asking because I spoke to my car insurance about it. Spoke to car park security and both have been very unhelpful.

[Aiminghigh123]

Surely keying a car would involve taking time?

My manager just said I was the only one they could see who walked closest to his car. Those were his exact words.

[Aiminghigh123]

I asked on here to see what other people’s thoughts are. There is a chance I did walk past his car and catch with a bag/coat, but the whole length of the car seems strange with no photo evidence of the scratches provided how much damage can a bag coat do?

I had some one throw a full coke can at my car before while I was driving and it did nothing.

As I stated I didn’t key his car.

No I have only been off work for 2 months.

[Aiminghigh123]

The car insurance suggestion was from my manager.

[Aiminghigh123]

I will ask again for the photo and video evidence.
They didn’t actually get back to me about photos just said they didn’t have any to hand.
As I said my manager said I can’t show you the video he didn’t have it. Car park security said we can’t release it for security reasons.
As far as I am concerned I may have walked past his car my jacket has no zips only buttons and my bag has no edges that could cause accidental damage I would have to try pretty hard to cause damage with either.

[Aiminghigh123]

graylag said:

Aiminghigh123 said:

I will ask again for the photo and video evidence.
They didn’t actually get back to me about photos just said they didn’t have any to hand.
As I said my manager said I can’t show you the video he didn’t have it. Car park security said we can’t release it for security reasons.
As far as I am concerned I may have walked past his car my jacket has no zips only buttons and my bag has no edges that could cause accidental damage I would have to try pretty hard to cause damage with either.

We’re now at a point where you may have walked past his car, this being the car you didn’t know was his and also can’t remember, but now maybe can remember.

Are you going to answer my other questions? Specifically, is this colleague in any way connected to you having had those months off work?

No I am on paternity leave so that’s got nothing to do with being off work.

I don’t remember at all walking past his car or that it was his car. I went into the meeting and didn’t know what the meeting was about. Someone’s car has been damaged and we think it might be you. I was pretty shocked. He then went on to explain who it was, what car it was and that having reviewed video evidence it may have been me. He couldn’t show any video evidence when I asked or had any photo evidence. I said I didnt scratch anyone’s car and am pretty sure I would remember scratching someone’s car if I had done it by accident. He then started telling me the video isn’t clear so can’t actually see any faces but I was the closest to the car during that day and they could see me get into my car and got my number plate as I exited that’s how they found out I walked past the car. He also said the camera doesn’t have a big area so they didn’t actually follow me all the way to my car but that car came from the direction I walked. He said if it was me accidentally maybe my insurance would cover it.
I was shocked at the whole thing so just did what he said.
Then emailed me few days later to say the whole side of the car had been scratched so then I got suspicious and decided to investigate myself.

I thought the guy was a nice guy never had a problem with him.

I will happily go to court if need be. I did nothing wrong and don’t believe for one minute walking past a car can cause scratches down the side which photos I have yet to see and video evidence I can’t see. WTF

Also why would I scratch a car in a car park that has CCTV? If you’re gonna do that do it somewhere safer.

Edited by Aiminghigh123 on Tuesday 11th December 16:29

[Aiminghigh123]

The Surveyor said:

The point is that 'they' think you did it, and are being bold enough to accuse you direct. A sensible manager wouldn't get involved, they would just tell the guy who's car got scratched 'he' can't see the CCTV and that 'he' should go through his insurance. Especially if the CCTV is being released by the 3rd party who manage the car park.

It looks like they have a grudge against you and have escalated a single minor issue out of all proportions, hence the suggestions from others that there is more too it. Have there been other cars damaged in a similar fashion?

No one has complained about things before. I didn’t think about the grudge thing. I have a good work record so can’t pull me up on that. What 2 sick days in a year?
Never had a complaint from anyone else. In fact we have had quite a turnover of staff recently and few people have said to me, I hope you’re not going.

[Aiminghigh123]

pc.iow said:

Agree.
Too much explaining of how he simply cold not have caused it to happen.

Guilty.
Send him down.
Next!

Well I have nothing to hide. I have messaged my colleague directly I will await his response.

Why did he not message me before?

[Aiminghigh123]

I’m still on paternity leave but have gone in a couple of times to help out. Even saw the guy on one occasion in passing and he said nothing. Unless he didn’t know it was me at the time.
He is more senior than me.

[Aiminghigh123]

Red 4 said:

Aiminghigh123 said:

. There is a chance I did walk past his car and catch with a bag/coat, but the whole length of the car seems strange with no photo evidence of the scratches provided how much damage can a bag coat do?

In summary then, you may have scratched the car.

You've played down the make/ model thing because you are trying to make out you paid no attention to the car (99% of PH'ers would know the difference between an M3 and an M5).

You are asking what you should do because the video evidence is inconclusive but you are rather cagey about what may have happened ...

Something not quite right here imo.

Insufficient evidence for any criminal charges but a bit wiffy nevertheless ...

Yes I can tell the difference between them but I wasn’t told what it was. I was just told BMW. I asked a few other people what car so and so has and no one knows exactly but was told it’s a performance car so I assumed m car. Manager said bmw for sure colleague said it’s a fast car ok so I naturally thought something m.

Been over 12 hours with no response from him.

[Aiminghigh123]

graylag said:

Yes, murder is exactly the same as this scratched car.

However, to humour you, here’s how a tribunal works. They sit down and ask which part of the documented disciplinary procedure wasn’t adhered to. That’s it. They don’t investigate the issue(s) that led to the dismissal. That’s it. Quite often they preface the hearing with words along the lines of “We are not here to pass judgement on whether you did or didn’t commit the act(s) that led to the dismissal. Please don’t bring that up as part of your appeal”

You claiming to have sat on tribunals makes no difference to what a tribunal does in reality.

Not sure how a tribunal works but surely there’s more than one person in the room?
I haven’t been to any tribunal about this just a meeting with my manager.

[Aiminghigh123]

From my point of view and what others have said what if something more sinister is happening to this guy?
I ask this from an incident that happened at my misses old company. Guy A claim discrimination against another guy B. Guy B was given time off work for 6 months while investigations went on almost lost his wife etc. It turned out that Guy A had been using a company credit card to pay his mortgage and made up the allegation to give him more time to be able to “pay” back the company. Obviously Guy A got fired but no one suspected he was in so much financial trouble.

Which is why I asked to see photo evidence of scratches. None has been produced.

[Aiminghigh123]

Ok this thread has gone crazy. I have had a response from the guy and well our previous manager has not helped this situation.
Previous manager was handling this and has since left.
The guy told me he told the police, our manager and the car park security his car was damaged. He was told by the previous manager they have multiple cameras that show who did it. I have been told there is only 1 camera it wasn’t clear who it was and my car was leaving closest to the time of when they think the incident happened.
He also claims that he noticed scratches on returning to his car after work when it was day light.
I will happily sit down and review the cctv if it shows me “squeezing” between his car and someone else’s fair enough. If it can’t show that and we go with the fact someone walked past the car and scratched it I don’t feel that’s fair when as has been said it could have been a neighbour of his, early morning poor lighting he might not of seen it before going to work.
Another 2 points he has says he was told a few months ago it was me? If someone told me I would personally go and speak to the person face to face. I was at work for 2 months after the incident.
Also says it requires a full respray on that side so is going to cost few thousand.

[Aiminghigh123]

I am just over 2 years in company.

Also found out from another source that the police weren’t interested and the guy was reluctant to go through his insurance as he has a few claims going on.

Having done other research it does appear that really my company should not be involved at all. This part is worrying me massively more than being accused of a scratch.