Dual carriageway or no dual carriageway?

[anonymous-user]

The initial message was deleted from this topic on 14 November 2022 at 09:34

[anonymous-user]

Sounds like a lot of hair splitting.

I did a SAC a few years ago and the "host" spelt out a dual carriageway is anwhere where oppsing lanes are seperated by "something" - grass, hedge, kerbs, etc. He did this as lots of people assume that single lane DCs are not DCs as people (and I used to) assume the "dual" bit refers to two lanes in each direction.

Going by what he told me, the pic in the OP is of a DC - dual carriagways.

I also "assumed" that the signs saying "Dual Carriageway in 1 mile" were not there to spell out they type of road ahead, but to let drivers know there would be overtaking opportunities ahead (i.e. no need to overtake until you get there)

[anonymous-user]

Swervin_Mervin said:

mac96 said:

Given that this thread has been debated since last night (by people with an interest in the subject) without reaching agreement, it would seem grossly unfair to a random driver to penalise them for exceeding the speed limit, assuming their speed was under 70mph.
Surely should have 60mph signs if that is the intention. I am not saying 'according to regulation X, there should be a sign'- I am saying you can't expect anyone to know what the limit is otherwise.

Doesn't seem unfair to me to penalise people for a lack of basic common sense.

That's a bit unfair. How does "common sense" override what, for example, I was told on a SAC? After what I was told, unless otherwise shown by a sign, I'll always assume any lanes seperated by something physical other than markings is a DC.

[anonymous-user]

Cat said:

jchesh said:

Cat said:

The terms "single lane dualling" and "central reservation island" are not referred to in the legislation so relying on them to support your position is pointless.

They are both mentioned in this http://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/ha/standards... cited earlier by Riley Blue, as follows: '1.16 Single Lane Dualling. An at-grade junction, usually a T- or staggered junction, within which central reservation islands are shaped and located so as to direct traffic movement (Fig 1/3).' [my highlighting]

That is not legislation and has nothing to do with whether a particular stretch of road does or doesn't meet the definition of a dual carriageway.

jchesh said:

Have I misunderstood you here then:

Cat said:

If it was a dual carriageway the warning signs would be for end of dual carriageway not as they are for 2 way traffic.

It would appear so. Signs don't define if the road is single or dual carriageway, its physical features do. If the physical layout meets the definition of a dual carriageway it should be appropriately signed. The road linked to in the OP doesn't have dual carriageway way related signs because it doesn't fit the definition of a dual carriageway.

Cat

It would seem odd (at least to me) if features built to make junction between a major road and a minor road safer had the automatic effect of raising the speed limit on the major road at that junction.

Whoever wrote para 2.24 of the Standards for Highways doc linked to upthread seems to think that single lane dualling doesn't result in an increased speed limit.

[anonymous-user]

jchesh said:

However, that same document says

Single lane dualling is formed by widening the major road to provide a central reservation, a right turning lane and space for vehicles waiting to turn right from the major road into the minor road (Fig 2/3).

If the section in question is a case of single lane dualling, then according to this document the grassy area is a central reservation, and therefore the section fits the description of a dual carriageway. Not a continuous dual carriageway, or a 'full' dual carriageway, but nevertheless a road with a central reservation i.e. a dual carriageway.

I think most have agreed that accelerating up to 70 through this area would not be the best idea, but nevertheless I am yet to be convinced that the speed limit in this section is 60 mph.

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 11th January 19:50

But there are numerous sections of road in central London with a central reservation: forex from the new US Embassy to Vauxhall Cross, Waterloo Bridge, Park Lane, Kingsway, the pinch points where one enters the City of London are just off the top of my head. They “inherit” for want of a better word the speed limits of the roads that feed onto them. Why would this layout be any different?