B road hooning, technically illegal?
Discussion
Ron99 said:
Some cars just aren't 'sporty' and are at a disadvantage in traction, stability and braking on minor roads. However, they still provide perfectly good transport for their owners when driven within their sensible limitations.
A fair few cars are also relatively low-powered and with B-roads often being hilly or requiring frequent deceleration for bends, their owners don't want to have to keep redlining them up every hill or after every bend just to add an extra 10mph of speed to please the tailgater behind.
When it's damp, or might be mud, or wet leaves, on a B-road bend, non-sporty cars are best driven very conservatively.
A lot of the people on here, with their powerful and sporty cars, don't always appreciate how it is for other drivers who just have the cheapest possible car to get them from A to B and back again. Many of the people on here wouldn't be able to cope with a low-powered, non-sporty car.
Yes, but I’m not referring to wet or poor weather conditions as it wouldn’t be conditions I would choose to “hoon” in anyway. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear before. Dry and warm conditions only so no risk of ice or below 7 where summer tyres are performing less.A fair few cars are also relatively low-powered and with B-roads often being hilly or requiring frequent deceleration for bends, their owners don't want to have to keep redlining them up every hill or after every bend just to add an extra 10mph of speed to please the tailgater behind.
When it's damp, or might be mud, or wet leaves, on a B-road bend, non-sporty cars are best driven very conservatively.
A lot of the people on here, with their powerful and sporty cars, don't always appreciate how it is for other drivers who just have the cheapest possible car to get them from A to B and back again. Many of the people on here wouldn't be able to cope with a low-powered, non-sporty car.
The low powered car argument is valid but I’m also referring to cars quite capable of getting up hills and not requiring redlining. A typical 320d is more than capable of this and to be honest, most modern cars are. Just to be clear I’m not talking about every driver going round bends at 60 on a B road, but a lot of bends don’t require braking in the bend at 30.
You can see this on your average single carriageway A road all the time. People slamming on the anchors for corners and braking when cars pass coming the opposite way on straight pieces of road. Is that the car’s ability? No, that’s unfamiliarity and/or lack of confidence.
I agree with your point about dawdling on country roads if there’s no other road users. Not sure why that would be an issue.
Edited by JonDerz on Sunday 21st April 14:17
Dr Jekyll said:
He lost control going into a B road bend too fast after an overtake, ended up blocking the road and a motorcyclist coming the other way was seriously injured. 10ps was charged with dangerous driving with the prosecution presenting not just the loss of control as evidence but also the testimony of the driver overtaken 'driving like a lunatic engine screaming etc etc' and some social media posts 10ps had made previously that could be interpreted as declaring an intention to drive recklessly. 10ps pleaded guilty and got prison time. He put his account of events on here, it's well worth reading and he did want other people to learn from it, though he did end up getting a bit sanctimonious and seems to have disappeared from PH.
Thanks for sharing, I will see if I can dig anything up from a search.EDIT: I found his prison diary thread but his post has been deleted, I’m guessing that’s the thread you’re referring to?
Edited by JonDerz on Sunday 21st April 14:36
GetCarter said:
O/P... stop doing that and get on some track days. Drive as fast as you like and you'll find your skill limits.
Ive done a fair few on sprint tracks. Just to be clear I’m not talking about driving like a lunatic on B roads, simply spirited driving and what actually constitutes safe spirited and not safe spirited in a legal manner which I felt the 2nd post’s 3 question rule as it were, summed it up very well. Because you’d expect a lot of people on B road hoons fall foul of at least 1 of those 3. I think one of the key elements with spirited driving is how enjoyable a car is at lower speeds and a sense of occasion. I got rid of my old 420 bhp s3 because I felt it was too fast to enjoy on the road and boring to be honest (not exactly renowned for their chassis experience).
RogerDodger said:
You'd think there was some kind of "overtaking speed" law, as once in a while, when I overtake in my TVR, I get flashed at by the car I overtook. Angry flashes. On straight, open, safe locations. Still baffles me.
I think a lot of drivers think being overtaken is “dangerous” and unless it’s a tractor, no one should overtake. That’s the impression I get anyway. I’ve been in cars where they’ve overtaken on similar roads you’ve mentioned, cars doing around 40 and they’ve gone past at 60 and got similar reactions. That’s single carriageway A roads just to clarify. I suppose as well there’s a varied amount of types of B roads in the country, so perhaps the types of roads I could be thinking of are completely different to someone else. There’s extremely few B roads I know of near me that an overtake is anything other than dumb. In my opinion anyway.
HedgeyGedgey said:
Its 500bhp and 4inch off the turbo no silencers or boxes, so I presume it was the noise
Noise makes you ripe for a section 59. A friend got one because a traffic officer dealing with another car heard him booting it up a 50 road a few streets away and pulled him over when he drove past them. Riley Blue said:
No, it's your turn. 
Lol well I think it’s important to point out we’re talking about roads with a vast amount of familiarity. As unfamiliar roads are a different matter and I would completely agree with your point, although I wouldn’t want to hoon on an unfamiliar road in the day personally. I also make the assumption you believe hooning in the day is more appropriate rather than the belief than any form of spirited driving at all.So based on those assumptions, I disagree
. I’ve spent the majority of the last 12 years driving B roads and country roads (ex lived out in the sticks) so my opinion is based upon that experience and the opinions of people I know that live in the rural locations I drive.Spirited driving in the day presents a whole host of hazards. Vast amount more cars, walkers, cyclists, horses, tractors etc. At night, those potentials are drastically reduced. A lot less traffic, I haven’t ever come across a tractor at night or horse riders. I can count the number of people walking at night on one hand. All have been in 30 or 40 limited residential areas going to/from the pub. I have never come across a cyclist on these roads at night. I have come across numerous unlit cyclists on the road on urban roads. You could argue animals but the only ones I’ve came across that would cause an issue is baby deer running across the road and that was once so very unlikely. At night you can see headlights lighting up the road etc before you enter the corners. Of all the petrolheads I know (and the rural ones), all go for spirited drives at night, not in the day.
Perhaps it’s different where you are I’m not sure
.Thesprucegoose said:
the sun brings the d
heads out.
Up until that, it’s been a well mannered and constructive thread. Personally, I would consider the person booting it around with not a care in the world a dheads out.head. The answer to my original question was answered in the 1st reply. Everything else is merely constructive debate. If you have anything constructive to add then by all means, do so. If not, maybe find another thread to make such remarks. vonhosen said:
Familiarity breeds contempt. Accidents are more likely to happen on familiar roads rather than unfamiliar roads, in no small measure because people think what's usually there 'past' as opposed to what might be there today 'present'.
ie I know that bend is going to start opening up now so starting dialling in throttle, Oh there's a broken down vehicle.
If we’re still talking about time of day its irrelevant in that scenario, as it would be the case in either night or day. In fact you could argue it’s worse in the day as if they have hazard lights on there’s a chance you could see a reflection of them flashing in the dark. I agree familiarity CAN breed a false sense of security, however if we’re arguing that we could say none of us should drive as we become complacent every time we get in the car just popping to the shops and no one should ever take their car for a spirited drive.ie I know that bend is going to start opening up now so starting dialling in throttle, Oh
there's a broken down vehicle.Again, in regards to my definition of hooning, I’m not talking about flooring the throttle at 60 round blind corners.
vonhosen said:
You use the word hoon though & different people will picture different things. It doesn't have a universal meaning.
Yet most people seem to be picturing in just one way as though it does I’ve tried to use the word spirited driving to see if that helps to describe what a hoon is to me.
For me, a hoon is driving for pleasure,
- within the speed limit.
- in conditions that are appropriate.
- not overtaking every person you come across that is driving slower (I usually pull over in the next village for 5 mins to create some space; benefits of night driving) or overtake when it’s safe to do so which is rare on the roads I frequent, easier to just pull off onto another road.
- Carrying speed through corners that are not blind.
I think that’s it unless anyone has any further questions about the definition? lol
vonhosen said:
For me the difference between hooning & spirited driving is that hooning is a journey made merely for no other reason than fun that involved spirited driving. Spirited driving would involve exceeding speed limits.
Carrying speed through bends doesn't really mean anything in terms of spirited driving. Every bend you are moving around involves carrying speed. You are though either driving within the limit points or exceeding them. Spirited driving doesn't mean exceeding limit points, that's careless/dangerous driving. Whilst spirited driving will involve exceeding speed limits it wouldn't objectively involve dangerous driving, that's dangerous driving not spirited driving.
You mention that hooning involves spirited driving but state spirited driving involves exceeding speed limits. Why does spirited driving have to involved exceeding speed limits? Is going round bends at 60 not spirited enough? You also mention spirited driving doesn’t involve exceeding limit points, however I don’t know about your B roads but the ones near me would exceed limit points if you take excess speed into the corners.Carrying speed through bends doesn't really mean anything in terms of spirited driving. Every bend you are moving around involves carrying speed. You are though either driving within the limit points or exceeding them. Spirited driving doesn't mean exceeding limit points, that's careless/dangerous driving. Whilst spirited driving will involve exceeding speed limits it wouldn't objectively involve dangerous driving, that's dangerous driving not spirited driving.
Of course you do all this on unfamiliar roads as driving in that manner on familiar roads would lead to complacency and then you might come across a broken down vehicle correct?
Or is this where you tell me you don’t do hooning or spirited driving and it’s merely a definition? Lol
vonhosen said:
Driving around always within the speed limits & always being able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear (& reasonably expect to remain so) on your side of the road, is..................well, just driving. Be it for fun or any other reason.
I did ask what hooning meant to you and asked questions for some further reasoning, don’t see any problem there?The part quoted would suggest that all forms of hooning, spirited driving or whatever you want to call it is illegal then if that were the case.
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on our definitions
SD_1 said:
heebeegeetee said:
I would argue that if you’re within speed limits then you’re not hooning at all.
Depends where you are, here in Scotland there are plenty of NSL roads where 60mph is simply not possible by anyone with a hint of sense. I stick to the rule of "only drive as fast as you can see". Sadly there are plenty of a
holes who don't abide by that and ruin it for everyone. Ron99 said:
On most of the B roads I know, even the best drivers in the most capable cars would not be able to maintain anything close to the posted speed limit through many of the corners.
Taking such corners at anything close to the speed limit would be reckless because you'd be lucky not to end up in the bushes or ditch due to limitations of turning circle or lateral grip.
Differing B roads. Some B roads I would agree, others I don’t, depends on the individual road. The point was exceeding the speed limit doesn’t mean it’s not spirited enough Taking such corners at anything close to the speed limit would be reckless because you'd be lucky not to end up in the bushes or ditch due to limitations of turning circle or lateral grip.
in my opinion anyway.vonhosen said:
Hooning & spirited driving wouldn't mean driving in excess of the speed limits at all times (because gain that would invariably result in careless/dangerous driving), but it you would also invariably encounter places within that drive where you could safely exceed the speed limits. If you didn't when it was possible to safely do so then you wouldn't be hooning or driving in a spirited fashion (in my book).
Okay let’s agree that hooning and spirited driving have many different meanings and leave it at that lol 
Centurion07 said:
Your mate should've got a solicitor onto that.
How in the hell is a police officer able to determine that a car he heard a few streets away is the same car being driven by your mate that happens to drive past thirty seconds later?
Even if it was some rare exotic car with a unique sound there's no way an officer can link the sound he heard to the car driving past a minute or two later.
Unless of course the noise was a constant scream from when first heard all the way until he drove past the officer.
It was gone 11pm and there was no other traffic, the few streets were literally about 20 seconds from where he was booting it, it was a fair collar. He did get away with it in the end as luckily for him the copper didn’t take his address down correctly or something and it ended up getting written off, I can’t remember exactly what happened now. My friend was super jammy though lol. But it was the noise that got him pulled.How in the hell is a police officer able to determine that a car he heard a few streets away is the same car being driven by your mate that happens to drive past thirty seconds later?
Even if it was some rare exotic car with a unique sound there's no way an officer can link the sound he heard to the car driving past a minute or two later.
Unless of course the noise was a constant scream from when first heard all the way until he drove past the officer.
4rephill said:
The term "hooning" when based on driving, is usually associated with Australia rather than the UK (makes a change to have an "Australia-ism" enter UK terminology, rather than the more usual Americanisms!), and in Australia, is defined as (From: https://www.qld.gov.au/law/crime-and-police/types-... ):
Hooning
Hooning is the common word we use for any anti-social behaviour conducted in a motor vehicle—a car, van or motorbike—such as speeding, street racing, burnouts and playing loud music from a car stereo.
Hooning includes any number of traffic offences, such as dangerous driving, careless driving, driving without reasonable consideration for other people, driving in a way that makes unnecessary noise or smoke, and racing or conducting speed trials on a public road.
In general terms (in Australia at least), using a motor vehicle for "hooning", is essentially, acting like a tt whilst in control of a motor vehicle.
As far as I see it, driving "in a spirited manner", doesn't mean acting like a twt - "Hooning" on the other hand, does.
There's another couple of issues here, that are being slightly overlooked.
The OP is asking about "hooning" around on a B-road.
1) What is the supposed difference between "hooning" around a B-road, and on an A-road?
Is the fact that it's a B-road supposed to make it somehow more acceptable?
Is it supposed to be less dangerous on a B-road somehow?
2) Which type of B-road is the OP talking about?
I know several B-roads that are wide, two lane, well kept main roads, with long sweeping bends, that were previously A-roads but got down-grounded.
And by the same token, I know several country road B-roads, that are barely one and a half cars wide, poorly maintained, with potholes and patches all over the place, with blind, switchback bends, and loads of hidden farm entrances on them.
Stretches of both roads are NSL, which on the former A-road is no real issue at all, but on the narrow country B-road, despite the NSL limit, it would be simply asking for trouble to try to drive along them at 60mph (oncoming cars in the middle of the road, horse riders, farm vehicles, trucks, cyclists, country lane walkers, etc., etc.)
As far as I'm concerned (based on the Australian interpretation of "hooning"), acting like a twt in a car is the same offence, regardless of what type of road it's being done on!
The only part of that I’ll reply to is the reason I “hoon” on B roads is because they’re the roads that I enjoy driving on more than A roads, that’s the simple reason. We’ve literally done the hooning, spirited driving, definitions to death now.Hooning
Hooning is the common word we use for any anti-social behaviour conducted in a motor vehicle—a car, van or motorbike—such as speeding, street racing, burnouts and playing loud music from a car stereo.
Hooning includes any number of traffic offences, such as dangerous driving, careless driving, driving without reasonable consideration for other people, driving in a way that makes unnecessary noise or smoke, and racing or conducting speed trials on a public road.
In general terms (in Australia at least), using a motor vehicle for "hooning", is essentially, acting like a t
t whilst in control of a motor vehicle.As far as I see it, driving "in a spirited manner", doesn't mean acting like a tw
t - "Hooning" on the other hand, does.There's another couple of issues here, that are being slightly overlooked.
The OP is asking about "hooning" around on a B-road.
1) What is the supposed difference between "hooning" around a B-road, and on an A-road?
Is the fact that it's a B-road supposed to make it somehow more acceptable?
Is it supposed to be less dangerous on a B-road somehow?
2) Which type of B-road is the OP talking about?
I know several B-roads that are wide, two lane, well kept main roads, with long sweeping bends, that were previously A-roads but got down-grounded.
And by the same token, I know several country road B-roads, that are barely one and a half cars wide, poorly maintained, with potholes and patches all over the place, with blind, switchback bends, and loads of hidden farm entrances on them.
Stretches of both roads are NSL, which on the former A-road is no real issue at all, but on the narrow country B-road, despite the NSL limit, it would be simply asking for trouble to try to drive along them at 60mph (oncoming cars in the middle of the road, horse riders, farm vehicles, trucks, cyclists, country lane walkers, etc., etc.)
As far as I'm concerned (based on the Australian interpretation of "hooning"), acting like a tw
t in a car is the same offence, regardless of what type of road it's being done on!Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff