Received a NIP. Bugger.
Discussion
Hi all,
Sadly I have found myself in this part of the forum because of my own stupidity.
I received a notice of intended prosecution for a speeding offence on 13/08, going towards Guildford on the A246 (Epsom Road) on a dual carriageway coming up to West Clandon.
The speed limit of the road was 50mph, and I was caught by a van doing 82mph. I know, I know. Conditions were sunny and dry, not much in the way of other cars etc.
I'm going to send the provided form back today accepting that I was the driver (although weirdly I note that they've spelt my name wrong).
Now, full disclosure: I have a conviction for DR10 back in 2016, for which I received a 1 year ban + fine (no points).
Since then, and actually since I've been driving (11 years or so), I've never had any speeding fines, endorsements or points apart from the aforementioned ban. No other offences in my repertoire whatsoever.
While I expect I'll get the paddle, I'm not rightly sure what size paddle will be used. I could give you a host of reasons why I was speeding, but I think we all know that generally it's plain old idiocy that does it - and I hold my hand right up to that!
So, given the circumstances, what might happen here?
Thanks in advance.
Sadly I have found myself in this part of the forum because of my own stupidity.
I received a notice of intended prosecution for a speeding offence on 13/08, going towards Guildford on the A246 (Epsom Road) on a dual carriageway coming up to West Clandon.
The speed limit of the road was 50mph, and I was caught by a van doing 82mph. I know, I know. Conditions were sunny and dry, not much in the way of other cars etc.
I'm going to send the provided form back today accepting that I was the driver (although weirdly I note that they've spelt my name wrong).
Now, full disclosure: I have a conviction for DR10 back in 2016, for which I received a 1 year ban + fine (no points).
Since then, and actually since I've been driving (11 years or so), I've never had any speeding fines, endorsements or points apart from the aforementioned ban. No other offences in my repertoire whatsoever.
While I expect I'll get the paddle, I'm not rightly sure what size paddle will be used. I could give you a host of reasons why I was speeding, but I think we all know that generally it's plain old idiocy that does it - and I hold my hand right up to that!
So, given the circumstances, what might happen here?
Thanks in advance.
Solocle said:
82/50 is summons territory.
Beyond that, I can't answer (agtlaw might be along), but it's going before magistrates. If the DR10 comes up, that may well affect proceedings, I should expect.
Thank you, interesting infographic. I half expected this'd be top band stuff. Beyond that, I can't answer (agtlaw might be along), but it's going before magistrates. If the DR10 comes up, that may well affect proceedings, I should expect.
markjmd said:
Looks like a Band C offence, which would mean 6 points or 7 to 56 days ban. Based on your previous form, one might put a few quid on the mags taking the sterner view.
Agreed, my DR10 may work against me here - not sure to what extent. Lindun said:
At that speed you’re too high for a Speed awareness Course or a Fixed Penalty.
You’ll get what’s known as a Single Justice Procedure Notice which is effectively one magistrate and an adviser looking at your case behind closed doors. If they can they’ll deal with it without the need for it to go to court. If it goes to court then it’ll be because they want to ban you.
I think you’re looking at 6 points or a ban of up to 56 days. Fine is likely to be a band C which is 125-175% of your weekly income. This reduced if you plead guilty by a quarter I think. It’s also capped at - figure that I can’t remember so if you’re a big earner there’s a limit to what you can pay, as is the maximum fine.
Thanks, not heard of that before. I always assumed there was a possibility of a ban AND points AND a fine, not a mix-and-match of the three. I'm not a particularly big earner per se. While I'm crossing fingers in the hope this doesn't end up in court, I do reckon a ban and large number of points is incoming!You’ll get what’s known as a Single Justice Procedure Notice which is effectively one magistrate and an adviser looking at your case behind closed doors. If they can they’ll deal with it without the need for it to go to court. If it goes to court then it’ll be because they want to ban you.
I think you’re looking at 6 points or a ban of up to 56 days. Fine is likely to be a band C which is 125-175% of your weekly income. This reduced if you plead guilty by a quarter I think. It’s also capped at - figure that I can’t remember so if you’re a big earner there’s a limit to what you can pay, as is the maximum fine.
eldar said:
The first thing that will happen is 23 posts abusing you about killing the planet, being stupid, promising death, damnation and a failure to drive to their impeccable standards. And dropped soap.
Then someone will give you the correct advice, at which it all deteriorates I not an argument about
How often to replace your tyres.
6 points, plus large fine(500 or so) and costs I’d guess.
That sounds like fun! I have seen posts in this section deteriorate but when all's said and done, I just want to know what I might expect so I can prepare for things. As you say, several points / a month or two banned and a chunky fine seems to be the status quo so far. Then someone will give you the correct advice, at which it all deteriorates I not an argument about
How often to replace your tyres.
6 points, plus large fine(500 or so) and costs I’d guess.
Play stupid games..!
OFORBES said:
I was caught entering a 30 zone at 53mph straight from a NSL straight stretch at midnight and prior to this my license was clean.
I got 6 points and the maximum fine. IF they take into consideration your DR10 you might be facing a ban.
Hope it works out for you.
At a guess I'd say that your ratio of speed limit vs speed caught and mine are within the same scope - so what you suggest is reasonable (I'm not at all clued up on these matters though!). Thanks for your input.I got 6 points and the maximum fine. IF they take into consideration your DR10 you might be facing a ban.
Hope it works out for you.
rallye101 said:
Between the Lotus/ Morgan garage and Clandon golf club?
If so its a notorious spot, If there isn't a van on one side of the carriage way you can normally bank on it being on the other
If so its a notorious spot, If there isn't a van on one side of the carriage way you can normally bank on it being on the other
TonyG2003 said:
Yes a very frequent place for the camera vans, especially heading back towards Bell&Colvill Lotus as the road goes two lanes to one.
The van the OP got caught by is on a left handed just before the lights. I’ve got to say 82mph (85mph indicated on speedo) is a fair clip for that stretch of road.
That's the bit, a mile or so before the lights / junction - I've seen the vans parked on the other side where two lanes merge, but never before on the section towards Guildford. The van the OP got caught by is on a left handed just before the lights. I’ve got to say 82mph (85mph indicated on speedo) is a fair clip for that stretch of road.
I have never really given it the beans down that section - got held up, road opened up, went for it, spotted the van tucked by a thicket before I slowed down so I guess they were poised for fools like me.
agtlaw said:
82/50 is too fast for a course or a £100 fixed penalty and 3 points.
You should anticipate court proceedings to commence.
It’s 2019 so you won’t get a summons. Expect a SJPN.
You will be given the choice to deal with the case by post / online. This is usually a good idea if your aim is to avoid disqualification.
The offence in the highest sentencing bracket. Expect 6 points if your case is concluded at the SJPN stage. If your case is adjourned to a court hearing then you could be disqualified for any length of time. The guideline says 7-56 days unless the speed is grossly in excess of the speed limit. 82/50 is not grossly excessive.
If you plead guilty at the first opportunity then the fine is extremely likely to be approximately equal to your net weekly income. The maximum fine is £2.5k on a motorway and £1k on any other road. Courts do not usually fine in excess of 75% of the maximum following a guilty plea. Also, £85 prosecution costs to pay and a surcharge (minimum £32).
A previous conviction is a statutory aggravating factor. The court will have regard to regard to a) the nature of the offence to which the previous conviction relates and its relevance to the current offence; and b) the time that has elapsed since the previous conviction.
Thanks a lot agt, really useful information there.You should anticipate court proceedings to commence.
It’s 2019 so you won’t get a summons. Expect a SJPN.
You will be given the choice to deal with the case by post / online. This is usually a good idea if your aim is to avoid disqualification.
The offence in the highest sentencing bracket. Expect 6 points if your case is concluded at the SJPN stage. If your case is adjourned to a court hearing then you could be disqualified for any length of time. The guideline says 7-56 days unless the speed is grossly in excess of the speed limit. 82/50 is not grossly excessive.
If you plead guilty at the first opportunity then the fine is extremely likely to be approximately equal to your net weekly income. The maximum fine is £2.5k on a motorway and £1k on any other road. Courts do not usually fine in excess of 75% of the maximum following a guilty plea. Also, £85 prosecution costs to pay and a surcharge (minimum £32).
A previous conviction is a statutory aggravating factor. The court will have regard to regard to a) the nature of the offence to which the previous conviction relates and its relevance to the current offence; and b) the time that has elapsed since the previous conviction.
I'd not heard of an SJPN before - just did some reading up and I'm glad to see that this is considered a 'non-imprisonable offence'; I had been very worried (paranoid) that this could lead to a stint at her majesty's pleasure! Hadn't even realised these matters could potentially be dealt with online or by post - what an age we live in!
I certainly would like to avoid disqualification - half expected that was a given though, and that I'd have a day in court to boot. Fingers crossed this is indeed concluded by SJPN instead.
I am absolutely going to plead guilty - it's open and shut as far as I'm concerned.
As for my DR10, I was luckily in the lowest band and the circumstances were not particularly damaging hence I received the lowest fine / ban time etc. It was three years ago now so I pray that doesn't come into play too much.
Sent the letter off already so I guess I just wait to see what correspondence follows - don't suppose you know how long I might have to wait to hear back? Given you state an SJPN is likely, a magistrate and legal advisor could take weeks to respond, in my mind.
xjay1337 said:
Just think if had an illegal number plate you wouldn't have gotten caught! 
On a serious note hope things are OK - I would be gobsmacked if you didn't get a ban.
Hopefully you slow down a little more now anyway - sneaky police buggers love to catch people out.
My friend said the same hah! I am anticipating the worst to be honest, and I have definitely learned a thing or two since. It was always a dread of mine getting done for speeding, and it just had to be during a momentary lapse of judgement that I slipped up. Nobody to blame but myself.On a serious note hope things are OK - I would be gobsmacked if you didn't get a ban.
Hopefully you slow down a little more now anyway - sneaky police buggers love to catch people out.
Eyersey1234 said:
I don't know the road in question but just to say I hope it works out OK for you, we've all done silly things at some time or other.
Thank you kindly. I generally don't speed about, in fact my car actively prohibits speeding as it's such a barge, but as you say we all occasionally do silly things and unfortunately for me this particular situation will have repercussions. Time will tell. Thanks all for the input and advice. I will keep you posted!
Rich135 said:
I'm also a regular user of that road and have only seen cameras on the other side, so I think you got a bit unlucky.
80+ does sound fast, but probably doesn't feel it in a big A8 barge. The trick is to have a car that feels like your are going 80 when your are actually doing 50 like my 1970 Lotus or 1988 MR2! Still, you have to be a bit careful all around Guildford.
All the best to you, these things happen.
Rich
Such a good point - in the relatively serene road-boat you do tend to not realise your speed at times, although this was particularly excessive. Might be downgrading involuntarily soon anyway with an impending ban 80+ does sound fast, but probably doesn't feel it in a big A8 barge. The trick is to have a car that feels like your are going 80 when your are actually doing 50 like my 1970 Lotus or 1988 MR2! Still, you have to be a bit careful all around Guildford.
All the best to you, these things happen.
Rich
BertBert said:
Obviously it's part of the B&C test drive circuit. I had a very nice drive down there trying out an Evora. The nice chap in sales takes you down the road and back to show you what's what,then you have a go, then I got the keys for 20 minutes. I presume that part of the initial bit is scouting for camera vans as well as working out whether you should be allowed the keys or not.
Bert
I'm sure I've seen them scouting the surrounding roads and that particular stretch in the past - not the most ideal road to test some of the glorious metal on offer, what with plod frequenting the place for numpties like me! Bert
WJNB said:
Thanks for the posting & how refreshing nobody has given you a hard time here.
Even if intentional in your case it is often far too easy to be distracted, lose concentration & thus break a speed limit.
I frequently drive a mini-bus accompanied by the most utterly charming passenger & it takes all my self-control to concentrate on my driving.
Likewise I can be toddling along mind either in neutral or pre-occupied and ………………..
Good luck & let us know the outcome.
The collective nature of posters in this thread has been exemplary to be honest - expected a lot more hyperbole and down-right negativity. Makes a nice change from the usual stuff spouted elsewhere on the forum at times!Even if intentional in your case it is often far too easy to be distracted, lose concentration & thus break a speed limit.
I frequently drive a mini-bus accompanied by the most utterly charming passenger & it takes all my self-control to concentrate on my driving.
Likewise I can be toddling along mind either in neutral or pre-occupied and ………………..
Good luck & let us know the outcome.
It is all too easy to speed, and all too easy to get caught. Win some, lose some. I will certainly keep you all posted on the outcome - hoping for the best but expecting the worst.
Slight update for you all - after sending the initial 'it was me driving' letter back in late August, it all went a bit quiet.
So much so, I got worried that my response didn't make it to the police - so I caved and contacted them in early October after a month of radio silence.
The email response I got is as follows:
"We can confirm that we have received your drivers admission. Due to the speed of the alleged offence this matter must be dealt with by prosecution, which in this case means by way of a court summons.
You will receive documents in due course, which will give you full information concerning the date, time and Magistrates Court where the case will be heard. This will then give you the opportunity to state your mitigation before the magistrates and a decision will then be made."
I finally received the postal bits last week. In them, along with further evidence of me and my car, was a letter which I had to complete and send back which stated three options:
- Plead guilty, do not go to court
- Plead guilty, go to court
- Plead not guilty, go to court
Obviously I ticked the first box, and have now sent back the docs including the means test thing about income for what I assume will be an (eventual) chunky fine.
Anyway, so far it has taken two months to reach this point. I suspect another couple of weeks to hear back, and although I have nominated to not go to court, the email I received seems to suggest that I will have my day due to the severity of it all.
As ever, I will update once I know more..
So much so, I got worried that my response didn't make it to the police - so I caved and contacted them in early October after a month of radio silence.
The email response I got is as follows:
"We can confirm that we have received your drivers admission. Due to the speed of the alleged offence this matter must be dealt with by prosecution, which in this case means by way of a court summons.
You will receive documents in due course, which will give you full information concerning the date, time and Magistrates Court where the case will be heard. This will then give you the opportunity to state your mitigation before the magistrates and a decision will then be made."
I finally received the postal bits last week. In them, along with further evidence of me and my car, was a letter which I had to complete and send back which stated three options:
- Plead guilty, do not go to court
- Plead guilty, go to court
- Plead not guilty, go to court
Obviously I ticked the first box, and have now sent back the docs including the means test thing about income for what I assume will be an (eventual) chunky fine.
Anyway, so far it has taken two months to reach this point. I suspect another couple of weeks to hear back, and although I have nominated to not go to court, the email I received seems to suggest that I will have my day due to the severity of it all.
As ever, I will update once I know more..
agtlaw said:
That makes no difference. Your case will be reviewed no sooner than 28 days after the Posting Date on the front page of the SJPN.
I’m surprised you posted documents to the court. Is there any reason you didn’t use the makeaplea website as recommended?
So even before my posted response reaches, there may be a decision / summons?I’m surprised you posted documents to the court. Is there any reason you didn’t use the makeaplea website as recommended?
I just figured it'd make no odds to post it or use the makeaplea site; having read the stuff I received a couple of times it didn't seem all that clear that a decision would be made within 28 days.
All it states in this regard is:
"You have 21 days to respond to this notice or the case may be heard without you and you may be found guilty and sentenced in your absence."
I certainly doubt the court could appropriately dish out a fine without me providing my finance report bit (whether online or via post) - so apologies if I'm missing something but I fail to see how it makes no odds?
agtlaw said:
I’m extremely familiar with the process, but thanks anyway for the quote.
You appear to have misunderstood. I don’t doubt what will happen, even if you have some doubts.
I said no sooner than 28 days after the Posting Date.
Your response must be made within 21 days of the Posting Date.
In other words, there will be at least 7 days after the deadline to respond before your response will be reviewed. As I’ve already said, it makes no difference how soon you reply. The date on which your case will br reviewed has already been determined. If you used the online system then you would have been made aware of the date.
It makes a big difference if your paperwork is not properly dealt with - as a recent poster found to his cost. You should have dealt with the case online.
I'm very much aware of your expertise in these matters so please don't misunderstand my confusion / curiosity as anything but.You appear to have misunderstood. I don’t doubt what will happen, even if you have some doubts.
I said no sooner than 28 days after the Posting Date.
Your response must be made within 21 days of the Posting Date.
In other words, there will be at least 7 days after the deadline to respond before your response will be reviewed. As I’ve already said, it makes no difference how soon you reply. The date on which your case will br reviewed has already been determined. If you used the online system then you would have been made aware of the date.
It makes a big difference if your paperwork is not properly dealt with - as a recent poster found to his cost. You should have dealt with the case online.
I didn't realise that the 28 day period was set in stone - the posting date is 21/10/2019 so that would make the 28 day point 18/11/2019, if that makes sense?
It wasn't made clear to me in the documents supplied that doing it online would be better or worse - and I'd not made that judgement either tbh.
Given that I've only posted my response on Friday, would it be prudent to use the makeaplea site in the meantime? Not sure if this doubling-down would help me gain any further clarity or prevent anything from being dealt with in a less than helpful manner..
agtlaw said:
Doing both is confusing and not advised.
Some areas send out the yellow document posted above, whilst other areas don’t give directions about how best to deal with the case.
If the Posting Date is 21 October then your case will be reviewed by a single magistrate on or after 18 November 2019.
Your case will conclude with points, fine, costs and surcharge. Otherwise you will be sent a Summons on Referral to Court or a Notice of Proposed Disqualification.
I see.. mine was white as opposed to yellow, I must be in an area which doesn't go into as much depth (very helpful!). Some areas send out the yellow document posted above, whilst other areas don’t give directions about how best to deal with the case.
If the Posting Date is 21 October then your case will be reviewed by a single magistrate on or after 18 November 2019.
Your case will conclude with points, fine, costs and surcharge. Otherwise you will be sent a Summons on Referral to Court or a Notice of Proposed Disqualification.
I sincerely hope that it concludes with points + fines. Given my previous conviction for DR10, albeit 3+ years ago now, I wonder if I will automatically be summoned to court and receive a disqualification as a motion deemed most prudent given my particular situation. Thanks for the information though - you've been more useful than the official letters received!
Finally some closure!
Letter received from the magistrates - and surprisingly it contains:
Notice of fine and collection order: £584.00
Notice of endorsement of driving record: 6 points
No ban, or court summons.
I'll take this as a pretty expensive lesson in my own stupidity. Thanks again for the advice, feedback and general comments.
Letter received from the magistrates - and surprisingly it contains:
Notice of fine and collection order: £584.00
Notice of endorsement of driving record: 6 points
No ban, or court summons.
I'll take this as a pretty expensive lesson in my own stupidity. Thanks again for the advice, feedback and general comments.
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